What's wrong with the Irish film industry?

conorhal

I’ll put my cards on the table, I admit to having pretty prejudicial view of Irish cinema. The words ‘new Irish movie released’ have a tendency to make me roll my eyes with the same kind of pre-judgment that I have when I hear the words ‘new RTE comedy’ or ‘new tribunal set up to establish the truth’. This is primarily because I believe that (on the whole, not entirely) we make pretty awful films and I have a few theories why. Feel free to contradict, correct, agree, or offer some of your own as they are just theories!

We come from a literary rather than a visual tradition:

Cinema started in the silent era as a commercial entertainment, from Chaplin to German expressionism a visual language was evolved based purely on the use of an image to convey a story. Ireland with a small to non-existent film industry skipped this developmental period and never successfully managed to adapt our literary tradition to a visual one . As a result many Irish scripts read more like draught novels then screenplays, and literary adaptations are notoriously difficult to successfully translate to the screen.

They are often too introspective and lack universality:

As we come from a literary tradition, that introspective internal voice present in literature is far too often what Irish cinema tries to portray on the screen. It can result in some mind numbingly tedious cinema that has a tendency to be about navel gazing minutia or about nothing at all. While that can work well in a novel, where a deeper understanding of a characters internal life is enriched on the page, it does not often translate to the screen. The reason for that is simple, you can spend an entire chapter gaining an empathy for a character as they make a cup tea, on screen however, they are just making a cup of tea. Unless that cup of tea is crucial to the plot that scene just shouldn’t be there, and yet in Irish films that cup of tea scene is often still in the cut.

We ‘re far too fond of whacky ‘characters’:

And I mean ‘characters’ in that colloquial Irish sense, as in ‘yer man is a right character!’ Many Irish films tend to be filled to the brim with ‘characters’ doing ‘charactery things’, often with little or no purpose or relevance to the plot or the narrative. In fact it sometimes seems that the thinnest plots are there to provide a loose framework to a bit of witty yet pointless writing, like a series of Tarantio ‘café scenes’ minus the robbery or the drug deal. These characters are often found in pointless ‘making a cup of tea’ scenes.

They lack narrative drive:

We just don’t seem to do big narratives in Irish cinema. You could blame the budget, but Blair Witch, or Pi or Primer had no budget, and so I’d prefer to blame a lack of ambition. Perhaps there are not a lot of big narratives in Irish life and we’re an introspective lot that prefer stories from the valley of the twitching curtains rather than epic ideas. The last time we thought big was perhaps 1916 (is it any coincidence that we keep returning to that well for movies) and it’s been down hill ever since. As a result I think we make too many small stories about small ideas that go nowhere with meandering narratives. As far as I’m concerned, every shot should drive the narrative forward because in cinema the narrative is like a shark, it keeps swimming forward or it dies. Too often in Irish films the narrative just dies.

Thoughts?

Morlar

I would not see universality as the ultimate goal of an Irish film or of an Irish film system. Irish cinema should be distinct and uniquely memorable, that should be a selling point and not something to avoid or downplay. Credible to an Irish audience and not made from the point of view that this should be 'universally accessible and appealing to all'.

I am not sure I fully agree with the navel gazing part either though you may have a point there. In general you could probably argue that they do not seem to be outwardly confident films. They tend to be small films made with the expectation of a small audience (this is a seperate point to the universality one above).

"We ‘re far too fond of whacky ‘characters’"

Do you mean ensemble casts ? I wouldn't see this as a valid criticism across the board. I have not noticed a tendency in Irish film to include 'wacky' fictional characters. If you mean roddy doyle ? perhaps, there are maybe a couple of other movies but generally this is not an issue anymore than anywhere else in Europe.

We come from a literary tradition but lack a narrative drive ? Irish society today is not anymore particularly literary in aspect than say, German, Polish or French in my view. Roll the clock back 100 yrs and you have a point, 100 yrs is more than long enough for that to no longer be a factor.

I think (no connection to the Irish film industry) one fundamental problem is the size of the home market & consequently the funding aspect. The tastes of the kinds of people on the boards that dish out the money might be another factor.

Lame Lantern

My two cents:

1. We exist within the anglophone world and will thus be subject to greater pressure from Hollywood compared to other national film industries.

But more importantly:

2. The Irish Film Board and its partners in Europe have choked off enterprise in the film industry by creating a situation where existing companies have grown dependent on subsidies and in which international distribution is effectively controlled by a cartel of European state agencies that invest in films that are in "the national interest" (see all the woefully terrible biopics of French public figures that run in the IFI because it's cheaper to do so than with indepedently produced works as well as coming with a force of marketing material at their backs) and make it incredibly difficult for private sector films to be financially competitive. Ireland's problems are in large part the problems of Europe as a whole.

Nolanger

• there's no 'industry' here to allow people to work their way up and create technically impressive films with an accomplished crew
• most Irish films are made by middle-class people completely lacking anything original to say
• there's too much crossover between television and film creating stuff in between
• the Leaving Cert education system here kills off any potential genius with originality!
• we've a nation of imitators instead of innovators
• there's no 'film culture' here - most people go to their multiplex as a break from the pub and have little genuine interest in movies
• because we lack world-class architecture, cuisine, art, opera - this affects our abilty to create great films
• we're a nation of begrudgers who wouldn't know a good Irish film until the Yanks tell us e.g. Once
• most people who make films here do so because they studied film at college hence all their stuff looks the same

Morlar

Nolanger wrote: »

• there's no 'industry' here to allow people to work their way up and create technically impressive films with an accomplished crew
• most Irish films are made by middle-class people completely lacking anything original to say
• there's too much crossover between television and film creating stuff in between
• the Leaving Cert education system here kills off any potential genius with originality!
• we've a nation of imitators instead of innovators
• there's no 'film culture' here - most people go to their multiplex as a break from the pub and have little genuine interest in movies
  
• because we lack world-class architecture, cuisine, art, opera - this affects our abilty to create great films
• we're a nation of begrudgers who wouldn't know a good Irish film until the Yanks tell us e.g. Once
• most people who make films here do so because they studied film at college hence all their stuff looks the same

I'd agree with those points except the red ones.

johnny_ultimate

I would partially agree with the points on introspection in the first post. American films I like aren't good because they're American, or a French film isn't good solely because it's French. They are simply good films - I don't fully agree with my own point there though (:pac:) - a thorough knowledge and examination of the country can add to certain movies. I watched an old Japanese film called the Life of O-Haru last night, which is a clever reflection on Japanese feudal society as well as a more universal look at other social issues (such as the role of women in society). A national identity can help differentiate a film, but it shouldn't be the sole defining focus of the film.

The better Irish films - Once and Adam & Paul are two recent ones I very much enjoyed - tend to realise this. Once is an accessible love story and celebration of music as well as a distinctly Irish movie. Adam & Paul examines the harsh, grim reality of drug addiction while locating itself very obviously in Dublin. However, when I did a module on Irish film in college, far too many were simply grim rural dramas - films that I got the impression were only acclaimed because they were Irish. Films like Poitin and The Ballroom of Romance spring to mind - they may be relatively accurate representations of rural Ireland, but they are failures within their given genres (social drama and crime drama, respectively). Such films are almost comically out of touch with themes that would propel them past being good Irish films to being just good films.

Again, I would stress that a sense of introspection can add a lot to films - off the top of my head films like Cache, Amelie, Spirited Away, The White Ribbon or This is England are films that help define a national sense of cinematic identity. But these films have much more going for them than that. Far too many Irish films don't. Unfortunately, attempts at creating more universal films in an Irish context don't always work either (I wish I could forget Goldfish Memory ). Some do though, and something like Once isn't popular just because it's Irish (although it may help), although we definitely can be proud of them because they are

Lame Lantern

Nolanger wrote: »

• most Irish films are made by middle-class people completely lacking anything original to say

Most films are made by middle class people full stop. Perspective has nothing to with class.

• the Leaving Cert education system here kills off any potential genius with originality!

I've yet to encounter a decent education system anywhere in the world and I'm sure ours is more liberated than that of Sweden or Italy or Japan in the 1930s where many of the world's great filmmakers would have emerged from.

• we've a nation of imitators instead of innovators

Our own literary history is a testament to that point's invalidity. To extend that sociological claim further, the enterprise class in Ireland is much lauded worldwide.

• there's no 'film culture' here - most people go to their multiplex as a break from the pub and have little genuine interest in movies

Rather than blame multiplex patrons (there are plenty of multiplexes in France and Italy) I would say that our country didn't experience the explosion of interest in cinema during the middle of the twentieth century like many other European nations because of a combination of poverty and censorship. It's nothing to do with any inherent societal character.

• because we lack world-class architecture, cuisine, art, opera - this affects our abilty to create great films

People working in these areas would testify to the extreme opposite.

• we're a nation of begrudgers who wouldn't know a good Irish film until the Yanks tell us e.g. Once

That's a wild and unproven sociological claim. Furthermore, films like Intermission were extremely popular here but did no business overseas. There's definitely a market for films addressing domestic culture.

• most people who make films here do so because they studied film at college hence all their stuff looks the same

Trinity's film studies course has existed for about 6 years now, UCD's skeleton department for maybe 8. Not sure our industry is really dominated by 25-year-old ideologues.

bnt

This may sound a little strange, but I think there's an over-emphasis on being "pure" Irish, and a reluctance to fully embrace non-Irish sources. There have been exceptions. e.g. I doubt Once would have been as interesting had it been about a relationship between two Irish people.

Compare that to Japanese cinema, which has appropriated from all kinds of sources at all levels. Take Kurosawa: Seven Samurai is his take on the Western, which then became an influence on American Westerns, and was even remade (The Magnificent Seven). Ran is Shakespeare's King Lear set in Japan 500 years ago and fleshed out (more back story).

I don't know about you, but I tend to forget that the "Spaghetti Westerns" are not American films, partly because of the influence they had on American film, partly because they did "American" so well. A Fistful Of Dollars was based on Kurosawa's Yojimbo, shot in Spain by an Italian director who could not speak English. Clint Eastwood, the star of Sergio Leone's early films, went on to make the Oscar-winning Unforgiven, and dedicated it to Leone.

So, my message to Irish directors: steal! Or at least try some Shakespeare, and don't let his English nationality bother you. It didn't bother Kurosawa, Zeffirelli, Polanski, Luhrmann, or Welles ...

Duggy747

The film industry's problems are the types of character's, locations and story's that we see so many times in an Irish film.

Completely unrealistic characters in modern Ireland, silly plots that are essentially your basic love story, Republic Of Dublin philosophy (Cuz everyone else outside it is a potato-munching, God-fearing paddy), usually an odd connection that brings characters together. Seriously, how many more films do we need to see about Dublin - I understand though that's more to do with the IFI's demands rather than the film crew.

Too many short films focus on the inane and abstract visuals (Over-extended, monotone, blurred close-up shots of someone walking down a street at night, for example) that drive itself too far away from the actual plot.

We're known worldwide to have some of the best dark-humour and an uncanny knack for literacy. Our film industry, though, is horrific with very few worthy films breaking out from the clutches of "what's supposed to be an Irish film"

Accepting mainstream visuals or plots isn't wrong, what is wrong is not adding anything original to the mix.

conorhal

I have to say, the theories in my OP weren’t really fully formed ideas, just random thoughts thrown out there to see if others might have some idea as to where our film industry is falling. It had been on my mind because it seems like a dogs age since I watched a decent Irish film. I liked ‘Once’, but I’m not a particular fan of ‘the Ginger Whinger’ Hansard’s music, and thus the film felt a lot longer than it was, also, I don’t really think I can count a film like In Bruges as an ‘Irish’ film.

Morlar: Your argument for distinct and unique versus universality is valid, I think I just phrased what I was trying to say badly. I wasn’t making an argument for generic film making but rather the exploration of bigger themes that stretch further than the end of a characters own nose. For example, one of my favorite films is ‘Hedwig and the Angry Inch’ which is the very definition of distinct and unique and while I really have nothing really in common with an East German transsexual with aspirations to become a rock star, I do understand aspiration. It’s a universal theme explored through the very specific experience a person I would never really come into contact with. It just seems that many characters in Irish films have very parochial concerns dealt with in a very parochial setting.
As for my point about ‘whacky characters’, yeah, that was badly made too. I wasn’t talking about ensemble casts but rather the fact that people seized on the success of Roddy Doyle and decided that what made his stories successful were his endearing characters and thus they populated their films with similar types, but they forgot that there needs to be a compelling story there holding them all together.

Bnt: you make an Interesting point that got me thinking about how films that define or reflect national identity and more importantly, reflect national confidence. Like you ere saying about French cinema, films like Meserine and A Prophet have something to say about the French attitude and culture, the feel like confident films. Then you look at the Irish film industry and you see defining films like Michael Collins and Angela’s ashes and it feels like we are still raking over the ashes of a previous generations neuroses from 1916 to the catholic church and I struggle to see the relevance for many modern cinema goers. It makes me wonder is the state of the industry, and ponder if it reflects a wider insecurity about out identity or confidence as a society?

Sanjuro

Simply put, the Irish Film Board is a horribly insular group of people. It's not what you know, it's who you know. So it doesn't matter if you approach them with Citizen Kane. If they don't know you, take a hike.

bullpost

Is it not simply a question of economics?
Producing a film for mass consumption is a huge financial undertaking and raising the finance for small Irish production companies is probably next to impossible.
As far as literature is concerned this can be produced far cheaper and we are still producing books which win international awards and market share from the high-brow literature of Colm Toibin and others to the Irish "chic lit" authors who sell by the bucketload across the water.

Nolanger

• bad or weak scripts
• lack of people who make either arthouse or commercial films
• no intellectual filmmaking either - it's all mundane, clichéd stuff - films for the family!
• making films here is more about creating jobs than masterpieces
• lack of focus - very few filmmakers concentrate on just features - they also do shorts/TV/commercials/music videos
• how many Irish filmmakers are genuine film buffs? How many would actually watch stuff like Life of O Haru?
• another problem is 'telling stories'. That's for television - good feature films go beyond that
• bad acting - people better off on stage or in Fair City

Karl Hungus

One thing to take into consideration is that Ireland exports a lot of talent. We've got a wealth of extremely talented actors who've gone on to bigger and better things in other countries, like Richard Harris, Peter O'Toole, Gabriel Byrne, Brendan Gleeson and Cillian Murphy to name just a few. A lot of extremely talented Irish actors just don't work within the Irish film industry.

What are we left with? Atrocious Fair City actors. And Samantha Mumba.

I think that the Irish film industry tries far to hard to appeal to American audiences. Look at Paddy Breatnach, he made the fantastic I Went Down and since then has crafted a series fo truly dreadful films all aimed at the American market. His last film Red Mist went so far as to try and pass of the North as America and employ Irish actors with truly unconvincing American accents.

We have a rich history of myth and legends yet never attempt to weave these into our film making. There are more American film makers making films set in Ireland than there the Irish do.

Plague Town a low budget horror is one of the more original and fun Irish based films in recent years. Yet the entire thing was filmed across the water. It was more truthfully Irish than most Irish cinema is.

Sleazus

Karl Hungus wrote: »

One thing to take into consideration is that Ireland exports a lot of talent. We've got a wealth of extremely talented actors who've gone on to bigger and better things in other countries, like Richard Harris, Peter O'Toole, Gabriel Byrne, Brendan Gleeson and Cillian Murphy to name just a few. A lot of extremely talented Irish actors just don't work within the Irish film industry.

Part of me thinks that if you build it, they will come. Give them a chance to work at home once every few years and I imagine most would take it - the UK and France produce international talent who still come home to support their native film industries.

LittleBook

Karl Hungus wrote: »

One thing to take into consideration is that Ireland exports a lot of talent. We've got a wealth of extremely talented actors who've gone on to bigger and better things in other countries, like Richard Harris, Peter O'Toole, Gabriel Byrne, Brendan Gleeson and Cillian Murphy to name just a few. A lot of extremely talented Irish actors just don't work within the Irish film industry.

What are we left with? Atrocious Fair City actors. And Samantha Mumba.

+ 1 This is also the problem with Irish football.

JJ

I heard a discussion similar to this on the radio a few weeks ago and they were saying that the Irish film industry needs to make more films (easier said than done of course). When you think about it, every time an Irish film is released, it's a big deal around here (because it only happens a few times a year) and (my theory at least is that) you're made to feel that it's your patriotic duty to like the film and if you don't like it then you're just begrudging.

In the radio discussion they brought up Denmark as an example where, supposedly, they release a Danish film about once a week so it isn't always a big deal when a homegrown film is made. If this week's domestic film isn't great then it's on to the next one. If you also subscribe to the theory that about 10 to 25% of art is great or classic and the rest is bland or forgettable, then it's in our interests to make as many films as possible because it increases the chances of more great or classic films being made.

faceman

We dont have a film industry. Well we do, but its not much of an industry. But I dont think the OP is really referring to Film being an Industry.

The film industry, is like any other industry, a particular area of employment. As with other industries, the employer can be home grown or foreign. Many "film employers" in ireland are films or tv shows shot here. They provide jobs.

But I think the OP is talking about Irish produced film and tv. the standard of broadcast tv is poor. Thats not down to the lack of creativity and scholars in the country tho. Thats down to those who approve the budgets and the program schedule director.

The Film Board's budget is pants too. Look at many of "irish made" movies over the years that got funding from the IFB. For many, the greater percentage of investment came from foreign investors.

So what would help improve home grown movie and tv making? We dont have our own equivalent of Channel 4 in Ireland. We possible need more tv stations and some need to have set rules as to what percentage of what they show must be home grown etc.

My own view on Irish made films is that we focus to much on our Oirishness. Thats why I think films like Once, Lamb, My Left Foot are some of the best Irish feature films ever made. They dont remind us of our Oirishness.

For the record, I didnt like Adam and Paul though... sorry..

I want to stress, that any claim that Irish people lack creativity, innovation, imagination or universality is absurd.

LittleBook

I've been abroad for a long time so these are just personal impressions from someone outside the industry, feel free to correct them.

One of the problems, already mentioned, is that it's just so easy to take your talents abroad to the UK or the US where you'll probably earn more money or obtain a higher profile in the industry globablly.

At least some other countries can maybe get some support from people who want to see films about their own culture in their own language. What's an Irish film? We're so intertwined with the UK and the US that there's little or no distinction anymore.

Economic reasons? These days it's hard to use the "it's too expensive to make films" excuse without investors, but if you can't get them seen .... Other countries have a protectionist attitude to their film industries, e.g. screen quotas ... a huge contributing factor to the birth and growth of the French film industry and the re-vitalisation of the Korean film industry.

Didn't I read somewhere that Ireland's tax incentive scheme designed to entice investors into films requires that only something like 10% of the film be produced in Ireland.

But the main problem is, I think, the OP's first point ... the film industry in Ireland is still in it's infancy and has a lo-ot of catching up to do.