The skinny on covering and releasing another artists song

telecaster

Probably not the technically the most appropriate forum to post this on, but I reckon this is where most of the people who have a clue hang out!

I'm looking at covering a well known song and including it on an album. What's the legalities? How do I get permission?

PaulBrewer

Give IMRO a bell.

krd

telecaster wrote: »

Probably not the technically the most appropriate forum to post this on, but I reckon this is where most of the people who have a clue hang out!

I'm looking at covering a well known song and including it on an album. What's the legalities? How do I get permission?

You call the publishing company - and tell them you're operating a production company from Ireland, limerick or Limerick, Ireland. And say - that even though you're acquainted with international copywrite law, there is a "eccentricity" in law as far as Limerick stands - ask them to google Limerick, and it will be the last you'll hear from them.

On an other point - I've heard publishing companies - for the like of recording show tunes by Andrew Lloyd webber, demand a few K just to let you record.

The way round this - I'm not a lawyer and if I was giving you this advice, I'd be disbarred. You create a company, doesn't even need to be registered as long as the paper work exists (letterhead paper). Create the recording - "produce" the recordings through the company - create thousand of CD's - fold the company - The only legal recourse Andrew Lloyd Webber has is in taking the company to court - And if there's no company,, there isn't a company to screw.

Copywrite law really protects those who wish to stay in business - if EMI tried the same trick, the judge would award a painful penalty against EMI

studiorat

As long as the song is already in the public domain ie. already released. You can go right ahead and record away.

You only need permission if the song has not been released already or the song is a lampoon of the original a la Weird Al.

Though, I suppose it's manners to inform the author that you have recorded a version of the song. You don't need "official" permission.

Obviously the publishing royalties go to the original author, but the mechanicals are yours.

Neurojazz

We found an act on a larger label releasing a cover using parts of our music and releasing the track for free online/using it live. They did this without our permission so are suing - so always good to go get permission and as Paul said - goto the publishers first as they should then either grant permission or ask the writer if they want it released...

We've had some strange offers come from our publisher in the past, some help publicity and some don't (it's going to depend on the agreement the original writer has with the publisher) - good luck with it!

madtheory

studiorat, you're definition is incorrect. Public domain means that the copyright term has expired, this can take 100 years, depending on a few things. Look it up on Wiki.

So actually, you do need permission, from the holder of the publishing copyright. It is their right to decide if and when their work is "copied" i.e. used in any way. If you fail to do so, you risk an expensive court case.

The mechanical, broadcast and publishing collection societies have all merged, so as Paul says, call IMRO, they will advise.

woodsdenis

madtheory wrote: »

studiorat, you're definition is incorrect. Public domain means that the copyright term has expired, this can take 100 years, depending on a few things. Look it up on Wiki.

So actually, you do need permission, from the holder of the publishing copyright. It is their right to decide if and when their work is "copied" i.e. used in any way. If you fail to do so, you risk an expensive court case.

The mechanical, broadcast and publishing collection societies have all merged, so as Paul says, call IMRO, they will advise.

madtheory is correct. In general anything that has been released will not be an issue but you do need permission. For example, you could just release a version of a song off a hit album before the original artist did. Back in the day it was virtually impossible to cover an ABBA song. They released albums with 10 hit singles on them, if there was no permission needed then anybody could have covered the song before they released it themselves. Andrew Lloyd Webber is another weird one too.

telecaster

thanks to all.

I was looking at the site below, the clearance seems too simple to be true?

http://limelight.rightsflow.com/ClearanceHome.aspx

maccored

we released a VU song as part of an album and all we did was contact IMRO, who sorted everything out for us.

studiorat

Sorry I should have made it more clear. Once a song is released it becomes available for COMPULSORY LICENSING. This means anyone can record it once they pay the statutory royalty rate. So it's fair game after all.

Apologies for the wrong terminology re: Public Domain.

Contrary to popular misconception, even among it's own members, IMRO is not a statutory body, nor does it have any Regulatory position. It's a company just like any other.

woodsdenis

studiorat wrote: »

Sorry I should have made it more clear. Once a song is released it becomes available for COMPULSORY LICENSING. This means anyone can record it once they pay the statutory royalty rate. So it's fair game after all.

This is not correct. Take the ABBA example I used above, it was definitely not possible to cover ABBA songs for many years after they were released for obvious reasons. If covering a song and just paying a Compulsory license for it was allowed, you could release U2,Coldplay, Beyonce,Kings of Leon etc singles off their albums before they did. This is not the case obviously.
There is some mechanism in publishing to stop people doing this.

Someone with a greater knowledge should chime in on hows and whys of this. Any time I was presented with this, permission was required as standard. 99% of the time the publisher was only too delighted to get extra revenue. There are exceptions, for whatever reason, do not want their compositions re released.

Call IMRO or a publisher.

PaulBrewer

Studio Rat ya feckin' Student !

madtheory

The basic definition of "copy right" is that the creator of the original work has the right to control any copies that are made. This is so that they can make money from their original idea, and so that they can protect its integrity.

It gets complicated once you get into the difference between mechanical and broadcast, royalty calculation etc. etc. The Wiki entry is good. We owe it all to the French, specifically Victor Hugo.

But basically, if you want to use someone else's work, you need:
(a) their permission, and
(b) to pay them.

Yes, IMRO is a company, they publish their accounts every year, etc. It's a very good one actually, one of the better collection societies in the world. Their members are composers and publishers. They are also very helpful in these matters!

studiorat

woodsdenis wrote: »

This is not correct. Take the ABBA example I used above, it was definitely not possible to cover ABBA songs for many years after they were released for obvious reasons.
Someone with a greater knowledge should chime in on hows and whys of this. Any time I was presented with this, permission was required as standard. 99% of the time the publisher was only too delighted to get extra revenue. There are exceptions, for whatever reason, do not want their compositions re released.

Name of the Game was covered in 1977 and Mamma Mia was covered in 1976 by uncredited session musicians for two Top of the Pops Albums on the Hallmark Label. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Top_of_the_Pops_%2776

You cannot release a song until the original publisher releases it. Then it's fair game. While a composer cannot deny anyone a mechanical license for a new recorded version, he or she has the right to decide who will release the first recording of a song.

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Studio Rat ya feckin' Student !

Shyster...

@ Mad Theory. Re: IMRO being one of the best collection agencies in the world. How is that? Under 10% of their revenue comes from outside Ireland.
They only have 5000 members. Is that something they told you or did you make that up yourself?

woodsdenis

studiorat wrote: »

Name of the Game was covered in 1977 and Mamma Mia was covered in 1976 by uncredited session musicians for two Top of the Pops Albums on the Hallmark Label. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Top_of_the_Pops_%2776

You cannot release a song until the original publisher releases it. Then it's fair game. While a composer cannot deny anyone a mechanical license for a new recorded version, he or she has the right to decide who will release the first recording of a song.

I remember those records, what a rip, I would love to hear the Bohemian Rhapsody cover

however,

I think you are missing the point. I am sure many ABBA songs have been covered over the years, to do so they got permission. I used them only as an obvious example of a copyright owner protecting their work to be exploited by themselves, which they did as they became a global phenomenon in latter years.

This is from a US perspective. It is not as simple as you make out.

Read this from the Tunecore FAQ


TuneCore: FAQ

But just in case you want to read it right here, take a peek!

Cover songs involve "publishing." Publishing issues can be complex. Here is a quick background on how it works in the United States. Laws vary from country to country. NOTE: Please don't take this as legal advice.

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

Just like your computer or your car is your property; a song is property. It's a particular kind of property: "intellectual property." Just as you have a right to determine who uses your property, the owner of a song also has rights. So, you must get the right to use the song from the owner.

The particular right you need is the right to make copies of the song: the "copyright." Only the owner of the song has the right to make copies or to grant the right to others to make copies. So you need to get permission to copy the song. You get that permission by getting a license, just as a driver's license gives you permission to drive. In some cases, song writers and owners of songs do not take care of their own songs. They turn to someone else to deal with giving permission and doing all of the administrative stuff. This person or company is called a music publisher.

MECHANICAL LICENSES

In either case, you must contact the publisher of the song in order to get the license. The license is called a "mechanical license." The mechanical license gives you permission to mechanically reproduce (copy) the song. Of course, in this case the song is being reproduced digitally, but it's the same principle: every time someone downloads the song, a copy is being made. And for every copy that is made, the owner or publisher must be paid. Remember, the publisher is simply someone taking care of the song for the owner. The amount of payment is established by the United States government under copyright law. The amount being paid is called the "statutory rate." Statutory is a fancy word meaning required by law. The current statutory rate the song owner or publisher must be paid is 9.1 cents per copy (going up in January of 2008, watch out!). So every time the song sells, you owe the owner or publisher 9.1 cents. This rate, you will discover, will be written in the mechanical license.

COMPULSORY LICENCE

In addition, instead of getting a mechanical license from the publisher or song owner, you could make use of a provision in the copyright law called a "Compulsory License." However, there are so many requirements for both notifying the copyright owner and accounting to the copyright owner or publisher for sales of his song, it is not recommended that you try this method. The best and easiest way to get a mechanical license is from the owner or the publisher directly.

For example, let's take Dolly Parton. Dolly Parton wrote a song called "I Will Always Love You." Whitney Houston sang it and Sony Records released it. The song went on to sell 14 million copies on a CD single. For each copy made by Sony, Sony had to pay the owner of the song the statutory mechanical royalty dictated by the US Government. Multiply 14,000,000 times the mechanical royalty rate and you can see Dolly Parton was a very happy lady.

ADMINISTRATORS

Some people in the U.S. talk a lot about a company called the Harry Fox Agency. What is the Harry Fox Agency? The Harry Fox Agency is just a company that gets hired by the people that own the rights to the song. The Harry Fox Agency now gets to deal with the administration. Harry Fox gets the license signed and sent back to them (which means a ton of paper work) and then they run around trying to find anyone that has used their clients' song and collect the money owed to their clients. In return, the Harry Fox agency takes a percentage of the money owed to their clients. This is called an "Administration Deal" as the Harry Fox Agency administers the licenses and collects the money on behalf of its clients.

The Harry Fox Agency does represent tens of thousands of people, but not everyone. For example, TuneCore founder Jeff Price has run spinART Records for the past 15 years and released bands like The Pixies. The creator of the songs for the Pixies (one of the band members) did not hire the Harry Fox agency. Neither did the songwriter(s) for the Apples In Stereo, The Dears, Michael Penn, Kaito, Clem Snide or many others. So, if you want to "cover" a song, the Harry Fox Agency may or may not be the place to go to get the license and pay.

YOU HAVE TO FIND THE SONG OWNER

You need to discover who owns the song. Setting this up takes a little one time work, but after that, you're good to go. How are you supposed to figure out who to pay? That's a very good quesiton. Places like BMI - BMI's site, or ASCAP - ASCAP's site, can you help you discover who wrote the song and who to contact to pay on their behalf.

TuneCore is also happy to report the Harry Fox Agency has recently launched a new site called "SONGFILE," for full download mechanical licensing for covers. It is a tool for artists and labels who need limited quantity physical and/or full download (also called DPD) licenses. It can be found at www.songfile.com. This service is unconnected to TuneCore, but may prove a valuable resource for our clients.

Harry Fox has also posted a new Digital Licensing FAQ which you may find useful.

Note: ASCAP and BMI are public performance societies, not publishing companies--but that is another ball of wax.

--Peter
peter@tunecore.com


Notice what he says about Compulsory licenses !!!!

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/115.html#c

This is what you have to go through to get a compulsory license in the US.

Bottom line, contact the Publisher/Copyright owner of the song before you release it in any form.

madtheory

studiorat wrote: »

@ Mad Theory. Re: IMRO being one of the best collection agencies in the world. How is that? Under 10% of their revenue comes from outside Ireland.
They only have 5000 members. Is that something they told you or did you make that up yourself?

Just an opinion. Try dealing with PRS (UK) sometime!

telecaster

I'm waiting for IMRO to get back to me.

It should be noted that HFA only supply licenses for US releases.

This being the global age, that's not much use as I want to make the track available across the English speaking world.

PaulBrewer

telecaster wrote: »

English speaking world.

Why stop there ?

studiorat

There is nothing to stop you performing a cover version of some other composer's song. You do not have to ask their permission. But you do need to serve official notice to the copyright holder (by registered mail) within 30 days of releasing the music. Then, you are obliged to pay them performing rights royalties every month, together with a monthly statement of account. Furthermore you must send them a detailed annual statement, certified by an accountant. That's a lot of bookkeeping, which is why accountants and lawyers love the music industry.

How much do you have to pay? The current rate is 9.1 cents (US) for the song or 1.75 cents per minute or fraction thereof, whichever is greater. This is for each copy that is manufactured for distribution (regardless of how many get sold). So, if 1000 copies of the CD are being made, a 5 minute tune costs $91 but a ten-minute opus will set you back $175.

These are just the standing rates. If you contact the copyright holder ahead of time you may be able to negotiate something easier to handle, like say an annual payment with statement at a flat rate of $70. That's less paperwork.

http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2008/05/short-music-rights-primer.html

madtheory

Again, you're a little mixed up. That is only for live performances, not releasing a recording.

studiorat

madtheory wrote: »

Again, you're a little mixed up. That is only for live performances, not releasing a recording.

No read the quote again... I'll underline the important points.

There is nothing to stop you performing a cover version of some other composer's song. You do not have to ask their permission. But you do need to serve official notice to the copyright holder (by registered mail) within 30 days of releasing the music. Then, you are obliged to pay them performing rights royalties every month, together with a monthly statement of account. Furthermore you must send them a detailed annual statement, certified by an accountant. That's a lot of bookkeeping, which is why accountants and lawyers love the music industry.

How much do you have to pay? The current rate is 9.1 cents (US) for the song or 1.75 cents per minute or fraction thereof, whichever is greater. This is for each copy that is manufactured for distribution (regardless of how many get sold). So, if 1000 copies of the CD are being made, a 5 minute tune costs $91 but a ten-minute opus will set you back $175.

I think it's pretty obvious we are talking about recordings here.

Here's another quote.

A license can be specifically negotiated between representatives of the interpreting artist and the copyright holder, or recording of published tunes can fall under a mechanical license whereby the recording artist pays a standard royalty to the original author/copyright holder through an organization such as the Harry Fox Agency, and is safe under copyright law even if they do not have any permission from the original author.

Hull, Geoffrey P. (2004). The Recording Industry. Routledge. p. 46. ISBN 041596802X.

So you do not need permission to record the work or release it. All you need to do is register the thing in the original publishers name. LIke I said originally you do not need "Official" permission.

madtheory

So why is "Used by permission of..." stated? Why are there no Beatles or Peter Gabriel covers?

studiorat

Sinead O'Connor and Willie nelson did "Don't give up". Along with 14 other artists in different languages and different arrangments. Erasure did "Solsbury Hill."

Aerosmith did Come Together, Elton John did Lucy in the Sky..., Franz Ferdinand did Mr. Taxman.

This is great craic!

I'm begining to think publishing companies don't actually want people to know the facts.;) You don't need actual permission but you do have to register the song as someone else's property.

telecaster

madtheory wrote: »

So why is "Used by permission of..." stated? Why are there no Beatles or Peter Gabriel covers?

There are upwards of 3000 versions of The Beatles 'Yesterday' recorded. Some wacky points my friend!


PB, stopping at the English speaking world at the moment because I've little in the way of contacts, understanding, or budget to push the release to a (for example) Asian audience. Plenty of work to be done for Britain and USA first, though your point is noted and largely agreed with.

studiorat, thanks for your informative posts.

madtheory

Mad!

studiorat

Fair play MT.
Have a good weekend.

PaulBrewer

Give IMRO a bell.

telecaster

IMRO / MCPS sorted all this out for me with minimum fuss once I got hold of the right guy in there

thanks for the advice and discussion

Gavs242

If you are looking to get a mechanical license for distribution inside and outside of the US, you should definitely check out Limelight (http://limelight.rightsflow.com). We can acquire physical, digital, and ring tone licenses for ANY song you want. With Limelight, you pay the royalties upfront based on how many copies you plan on selling. If you surpass that amount, you can just go back and re-new the license. The license fee is $15 (or less if you have multiple songs/compositions), on top of the royalties paid. We pay out all of the royalties for you so you don't have to worry. Any questions feel free to ask!

TelePaul

madtheory wrote: »

Why are there no Peter Gabriel covers?

Uhmm because he sucks?

Rockshamrover

TelePaul wrote: »

Uhmm because he sucks?

His duet with Kate Bush was pretty decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiCRZLr9oRw

TelePaul

Rockshamrover wrote: »

His duet with Kate Bush was pretty decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiCRZLr9oRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCg5EiB2AM

His duet with Steve Winwood was....wait, never mind!

Rockshamrover

TelePaul wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCg5EiB2AM

His duet with Steve Winwood was....wait, never mind!

He really gave that the hairdryer treatment.