On the defense of the X Factor and pop in general

dav nagle

I have been reading a huge amount recently about how it is the X Factors fault that music as become so useless and mainstream. I have read that pop is passed out producers back sides as if anyone can do it. Regardless of what you may or may not think a huge amount of work goes into the production of a modern day pop song. I am struggling all the time with what works and what doesn't work. Now as a guitarist who has played in 3 bands I find that there is way more ego in rock music period. I also find that the X Factor and Mr SC himself get the blame for everything that's wrong with the industry. The pop industry is based on a short term illusion of fortune and fame and many of the songs that are produced are more suited for children and teens, but for heavens sake let them at it.

You bring it on yourselves?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0115/breaking81.htm

Rock bands need an edge and most of them in Dublin lack individuality. A band like Republic of loose have a serious funk thing going on and they do it better than most, they also have a cool lead singer and extremely tight players. Most of all they have catchy lyrics something many bands fail to deliver on. Singer songwriter Damien Rice can write songs that make you feel something, he can do this in his sleep, he is a natural, that is why he has done so well. Not everyone who can play a guitar has magic vocals, lyrics, songwriting.

If music was a drug pop would be a quick hit and that's that and although it's blatantly digital for the most part it has it's moments.

If the business is annoying you then change it, if you cant then don't blame the pop business. In my view the people who are not open to all music are the real losers as I see music as a universal gift that we all should sit back and enjoy even if it is just for fun. One day you will have kids and they may like pop and you may have to go to a few concerts so suck it up gentleman.

We have all heard the old argument that X Factor is to blame but at this stage we are spinning the same record again and again. This is business gentleman in fact it goes much deeper than that its show business. The people who have the cash flow to back pop acts have one thing in mind and that's making money and we all like to make money don't we?

As much as we see hopefuls who are delusional and malfunctioning on the X Factor be careful not to laugh so quickly. These people have never had an honest person in the biz tell them they haven't a hope, but are rockers any different? How many times do we lie on a daily basis in order to keep the wolves at bay? I think we must remind ourselves that blaming a culture or a genre is only pointing the finger, it doesn't fix the issues.

Believe it or not the faults we see in others may be closer to home than you may realize. Maybe you or your band are fooling yourselves? Maybe the only reason you are in a band is because it is your one and only passion? Why should any label spend their money on a band who need way too much development. When I was in bands my friends came to the gigs and said 'you were deadly' but how do we really know we were? Maybe deadly in Whelans but certainly not a patch on Nirvana.

Seziertisch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_NwvO1UxN8

maccored

i think the likes of the x factor etc is more of a symptom than the cause

i57dwun4yb1pt8

I never ever thought id say this , but

1/ im a seasoned music veteran - and i love x factor

2/ I love pop music - as well as loads of otherstuff - apart from jazz - its for w@nkers

3/ I thought the winner -joe - was a very good singer .

4/ they blow the so called irish talent you see in tv shows off the stage
we seem to have a talent bar that only meets " reject" in x factor standards

why do people assume that just becasue all your airhead mates and aunty Maggie say you can sing - that you suddenly think you are fcuking Beyonce ?





pop music is pop music - its as you say . like bubble gum .
more serious music can be just as flippant as pop - cos it has to sell !


roll on the pop music monster

at least it aint fcuking Jazz

DamagedTrax

i love pop music too but i'm sorry, i really cant fit what the x-factor does into the "pop" category (at least not in my head anyway!)

well made pop is a talent in itself. bands like alphabeat are really pushing the pop sound with stunning production.

i guess what dav is talking about is production line pop (big name producer, mariah carey squeels, aggresive marketing aimed at a market that changes their tastes day by day)

or is it all just music anyway?

dasdog

DaDumTish wrote: »

apart from jazz - its for w@nkers

Sweet Jebus

I've never been a fan of pop music but there has always been some good pop music. I saw Lady Gaga play last year and I've got a lot of respect for what she is doing because she is talented and stands out as something different.

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i love pop music too but i'm sorry, i really cant fit what the x-factor does into the "pop" category (at least not in my head anyway!)

well made pop is a talent in itself. bands like alphabeat are really pushing the pop sound with stunning production.

i guess what dav is talking about is production line pop (big name producer, mariah carey squeels, aggresive marketing aimed at a market that changes their tastes day by day)

or is it all just music anyway?

Yes it is all just music anyway. My point is that pointing the finger at one segment of the music industry is an escape goat. Those pop bashers should be working on their music instead of pointing the finger, if they don't play music then they should understand that we are in business not just music. So many people miss this point!

dav nagle

maccored wrote: »

i think the likes of the x factor etc is more of a symptom than the cause

People want a way out in life, bills, regular jobs or lack there of, boring careers and so on. So yes it is a symptom but it branches out for millions of reasons.

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Yes it is all just music anyway. My point is that pointing the finger at one segment of the music industry is an escape goat. Those pop bashers should be working on their music instead of pointing the finger, if they don't play music then they should understand that we are in business not just music. So many people miss this point!

i guess it depends on what angle you're coming from then.

for me its music first and business second. i get paid what i get paid and i dont get into marketing, promotion etc. once my job is done then thats it.

probably an argument for people like yourselves dav, people who's business relies on representing an overall package (if i understand correctly what you do..)

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i guess it depends on what angle you're coming from then.

for me its music first and business second. i get paid what i get paid and i dont get into marketing, promotion etc. once my job is done then thats it.

probably an argument for people like yourselves dav, people who's business relies on representing an overall package (if i understand correctly what you do..)

Music should always come first but when you have to pay bills, rent, insurance and all that stuff the priorities can change very easily.


Back on topic!
The truth is there is way too much blame on pop in general.

maccored

dav nagle wrote: »

Music should always come first but when you have to pay bills, rent, insurance and all that stuff the priorities can change very easily.


Back on topic!
The truth is there is way too much blame on pop in general.

as a musician thats why I have a day job. I can then write the kind of music I want, not the kind of music that pays the bills.

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Music should always come first but when you have to pay bills, rent, insurance and all that stuff the priorities can change very easily.

i agree 100% but to me once the track is given to the artist and he's happy with it then i get paid and my job ends.. so i probably dont see much of what happens afterwards.

dav nagle

maccored wrote: »

as a musician thats why I have a day job. I can then write the kind of music I want, not the kind of music that pays the bills.

I still have time to make music for me and in fact I have more time than I would have if I was working for the man.

If you like conforming to all the regulations that go with a job than fair enough but I have personally never enjoyed working for anyone but me! :P

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

I still have time to make music for me and in fact I have more time than I would have if I was working for the man.

If you like conforming to all the regulations that go with a job than fair enough but I have personally never enjoyed working for anyone but me! :P

you'd enjoy working for me. you'd be my top bitch down phoenix park. 60/40 in my direction. i'll supply the lube.

dav nagle

DamagedTrax wrote: »

you'd enjoy working for me. you'd be my top bitch down phoenix park. 60/40 in my direction. i'll supply the lube.

Lube it up DT I'll keep sketch while you ride me! Sh$T I'm all wet!

DamagedTrax

dav nagle wrote: »

Lube it up DT I'll keep sketch while you ride me! Sh$T I'm all wet!

what you talking about willis? i'd be pimpin yo ass.. not friggin roidin it!

maccored

dav nagle wrote: »

I still have time to make music for me and in fact I have more time than I would have if I was working for the man.

If you like conforming to all the regulations that go with a job than fair enough but I have personally never enjoyed working for anyone but me! :P

I was self employed for a good while, but the urge to actually pay bills and get paid money became too great. I have a job I love though, so I dont mind.

dav nagle

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/radio-documentary-generation-x-factor.html

henessjon

syco is just using the medium that is king

TV


why he cant do it with original performing bands who are trying to make it new rather than

someone who is told what to sing and if they cant dont worry we have some techies behind who can fix it....

covers more covers please lets have another cover

Rockshamrover

DamagedTrax wrote: »

what you talking about willis? i'd be pimpin yo ass.. not friggin roidin it!

Post of the year so far, had me laughin out loud:D:D:D

Rockshamrover

Back on track though.

Writing a great 3 minute pop song is definitely a rare skill. Getting someone that can perform it just right is even rarererer:D

Burt Bacharach (kinda jazzy) Dionne Warwick. Say a little prayer. Class.

Of course the best version ever was done by Swim (an oirish band from the 80s).

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

Burt Bacharach (kinda jazzy) Dionne Warwick. Say a little prayer. Class.

Of course the best version ever was done by Swim (an oirish band from the 80s).

As Produced by our own fair Tweeky if I remember rightly ...

krd

DamagedTrax wrote: »

what you talking about willis? i'd be pimpin yo ass.. not friggin roidin it!

It's 'ride Sally, ride' not 'Roid Sally, roid'

11811

I've nothing against a well crafted pop song, but to be honest I don't see much hard work and craft being put into what the X-Factor produces. The music is only a secondary issue, its all about watching the spectacle unfold on TV, thats where the entertainment is, not in the music.
There seems to be a awful attitude of late of using music as sport as such, be the X-factor, Meteor awards or whatever.

If you watched this without knowing the background of it what would you think?

seannash

11811 wrote: »

I've nothing against a well crafted pop song, but to be honest I don't see much hard work and craft being put into what the X-Factor produces. The music is only a secondary issue, its all about watching the spectacle unfold on TV, thats where the entertainment is, not in the music.
There seems to be a awful attitude of late of using music as sport as such, be the X-factor, Meteor awards or whatever.

If you watched this without knowing the background of it what would you think?

****ing hell.that felt really long.

im actually a bit surprised that vanilla ice would do that.from all the reality shows hes been on he seemed like a decent enough chap that wanted to shake that old image

Dravokivich

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i love pop music too but i'm sorry, i really cant fit what the x-factor does into the "pop" category (at least not in my head anyway!)

In my opinion...

XFactor / Pop Idol is to Pop Music as Pregnancy is to Shotgun weddings...

- Drav!

dav nagle

11811 wrote: »

I've nothing against a well crafted pop song, but to be honest I don't see much hard work and craft being put into what the X-Factor produces. The music is only a secondary issue, its all about watching the spectacle unfold on TV, thats where the entertainment is, not in the music.
There seems to be a awful attitude of late of using music as sport as such, be the X-factor, Meteor awards or whatever.

If you watched this without knowing the background of it what would you think?

Wheres the nearest gun store?

jtsuited

sorry to piss on your parade here lads, but the problem with xfactor is not the fact that it's pop, or that it's fun or any of that....it's the fact that even judged within the parameters of pop music, it's just bad.

it's just lazy. i'm a big pop music fan but I can't stand what counts as pop right now because it's badly constructed. Genuinely listen to Take That versus JLS (that's their name right?) and you'll see there was a serious amount of charm in what Take That did (jesus I never thought I'd say that).
Do the same with Beyonce versus Tina Turner. Again you start to realise the talent gap.

Now there's no denying there's a market for teenage girls music, but there's no reason it has to be SO excruciatingly bad.
Every so often, a decent tune comes out (that cheryl cole 'fight for this love' or whatever it's called is listenable but jesus it's obvious she can't sing), but the rest of the time it's just a race to the bottom.

In the past they were selling sh1t to teenagers and at least pretending it was something good (or at least attempting to). Right now, they genuinely don't seem to care.

The exception to this is Lady Gaga. She offends every artistic sensibility in me, but jaysus she's actually good. She's annoying as fcuk with her 'quirkiness' and her music is completely 'trying too hard'. But the hooks are there. The craft is somewhat present. There is a tiny depth to her, even if it is completely contrived.

If the pop charts were a billion lady gaga's, daytime fm radio would be listenable to anyone with an IQ over 80.

jtsuited

ah good to see bacharach got a mention. I would talk all day of the genius of bacharach.