My new pup

greenpeter

Got my new pup last Friday, a Brittany my first pointing dog so will be looking for bits of help along the line lads. He is settled in very well getting on very well with the springer. Had to get a loan of a e-collar to stop the springer mounting the poor pup, only tuck a little shock and he didn't try it since. Here he is

sonofthegun

best of luck with him greenpeter nice looking pup.

whippetman

best of look wit him man

deeksofdoom

Thats a beautiful looking pup and the best of luck with him.

As for the e-collar I hope to god your not thinking of using it on the pup. The mounting your springer is doing is a dominance thing a cold bucket of water will work just as well.

greenpeter

Dont worry wouldn't dream of it, was a bit worried he mite hurt the pups back. It done its jobs now its gone back.

jwshooter

there a cracking little dog ,i shot grouse over one and rate them highly.

best of luck .

deeksofdoom

greenpeter wrote: »

Dont worry wouldn't dream of it, was a bit worried he mite hurt the pups back. It done its jobs now its gone back.

Goodman! they have their place but I personally would try to avoid using them at all costs.

endasmail

lovely looking pup greenpeter,best of luck with it

mallards

He's a cracker greenpeter, do you mind if I ask where you got him?
I have four myself.

Mallards

greenpeter

mallards wrote: »

He's a cracker greenpeter, do you mind if I ask where you got him?
I have four myself.

Mallards

He came from a nice man in abbeyleix, was looking for a pointing dog but have a soft spot for spaniels so decided on the Brittany. Lets just hope i made the rite choice now. I've been looking trough some of your old post and you seam to have great success with them mallards.
Are they hard trained mallards?
Any good books on training?

EPointer=Birdss

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Goodman! they have their place but I personally would try to avoid using them at all costs.

Wouldn't knock em too much deeks, they work well for me... The beep function on them is very useful.
If the dog is soft at all no need though.. I don't use it on the springet pup at all.

P.S Fine dog GP. Nice alertness about him...

boc121

Lovely pup gp, nice bright looking head on him.
Good luck with him.

riflehunter77

Lovely pup all the best with him.

deeksofdoom

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Wouldn't knock em too much deeks, they work well for me... The beep function on them is very useful.
If the dog is soft at all no need though.. I don't use it on the springet pup at all.

P.S Fine dog GP. Nice alertness about him...

Fair enough, I accept that e-collars are a handy tool. But I would only use one in a dog that needs emergency corrective training. God knows I had a dropper there a few years ago and I had to give up on him, maybe if I had an e-collar it might have put manners on him but I didn’t and he had to be put down in the end.

Thing is I don’t believe in using e-collars on young dogs from when you start out training. Do your yard work first and get obedience into the dog before you do any real field training. Getting the dog to recall and the stop are the two most vital commands to get right, if you can get the dog to recall and stop then you will never need an e-collar.

I know of one man here locally who has been trialling English pointers for years and he is against using them. Some trainers are using them to train dogs to quarter, The dogs I’ve had I’ve been lucky with and they naturally quarter, I just work them into the wind and they naturally figure out what to do. I have a springer bitch at the moment and you should see her quarter through beet, I’ve never done any training to quarter with her she’s just picked it up, Dogs which are trained to quarter using an e-collar tend to turn back rather turn out when quartering back and forth, which I’m led to believe is a fault when trialling.

Now I don’t claim to be an expert and I’ve never trialled a dog in my life, but that’s just my opinion maybe a dog trialling man will be able to correct me. My dogs are trained good enough for rough shooting. The Springer I also do a good bit of beating with, the GWP all rough shooting.

mallards

greenpeter wrote: »

He came from a nice man in abbeyleix, was looking for a pointing dog but have a soft spot for spaniels so decided on the Brittany. Lets just hope i made the rite choice now. I've been looking trough some of your old post and you seam to have great success with them mallards.
Are they hard trained mallards?
Any good books on training?

I have been using the usual HPR training books etc nothing specific to Brittanys. I have found that they have a range of temperments, some can be stubborn and others take to training like a duck to water. I have yet to meet a very soft Brittany. They are intelligent dogs and can think for themselves so let them know that you rule the roost.

Good Luck.

Mallards

EPointer=Birdss

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Fair enough, I accept that e-collars are a handy tool. But I would only use one in a dog that needs emergency corrective training. God knows I had a dropper there a few years ago and I had to give up on him, maybe if I had an e-collar it might have put manners on him but I didn’t and he had to be put down in the end.

Thing is I don’t believe in using e-collars on young dogs from when you start out training. Do your yard work first and get obedience into the dog before you do any real field training. Getting the dog to recall and the stop are the two most vital commands to get right, if you can get the dog to recall and stop then you will never need an e-collar.

I know of one man here locally who has been trialling English pointers for years and he is against using them. Some trainers are using them to train dogs to quarter, The dogs I’ve had I’ve been lucky with and they naturally quarter, I just work them into the wind and they naturally figure out what to do. I have a springer bitch at the moment and you should see her quarter through beet, I’ve never done any training to quarter with her she’s just picked it up, Dogs which are trained to quarter using an e-collar tend to turn back rather turn out when quartering back and forth, which I’m led to believe is a fault when trialling.

Now I don’t claim to be an expert and I’ve never trialled a dog in my life, but that’s just my opinion maybe a dog trialling man will be able to correct me. My dogs are trained good enough for rough shooting. The Springer I also do a good bit of beating with, the GWP all rough shooting.

Well put Deeks. I don't disagree with anything you've said THB. I had a very similiar dropper once where I didn't have one & he would of been a miller but had to go also.
Just useful if used correctly.
What I find great is, I thought the dog to hold his distance on point with it. When he used creep I'd beep the collar & he'd stop. Now I can stop him without whistling or making noise which helps alot late in the season when the birds are wild...
Would not recommend it to people that are short tempered or inexperienced!

deeksofdoom

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Well put Deeks. I don't disagree with anything you've said THB. I had a very similiar dropper once where I didn't have one & he would of been a miller but had to go also.
Just useful if used correctly.
What I find great is, I thought the dog to hold his distance on point with it. When he used creep I'd beep the collar & he'd stop. Now I can stop him without whistling or making noise which helps alot late in the season when the birds are wild...
Would not recommend it to people that are short tempered or inexperienced!

Yeah my dropper was a hunting machine, but that's no good when hes out a field in front of you. He was a cross between a pointer and a springer, he had some engine on him - a big broad deep chest. It was my own fault I let him get his head too young and I could never get him back.....I fecked him up. If I had him now it would be a different story.

Holding point while at a distance would be a good thing to use it for alright, when the dog has moved in and the bird has flown its a bit late if your a couple of hundred yards away down the mountain.

If your short tempered there is no point in training a dog. You need to be in the right frame of mind, no point going out with the dog after a fight with the Mrs.:D

EPointer=Birdss

deeksofdoom wrote: »

no point going out with the dog after a fight with the Mrs.:D

I would never do such a thing to the poor dog!!!:D:D:D

fiestaman

Lovely pup green p. i heard of that guy in abbeyliex alright,i think he knows his stuff with them.breading them a long time now. im waiting to get one but waiting for house to be finished first, seen him is making me jelous now:mad: Best of look,keep us updated how hes getting on coz il be interested in getting one from abbeyleix,not to far from me.
ps are you kenneling him or is he free to go about the garden but fenced in from rd and fields??

greenpeter

fiestaman wrote: »

Lovely pup deek. i heard of that guy in abbeyliex alright,i think he knows his stuff with them.breading them a long time now. im waiting to get one but waiting for house to be finished first, seen him is making me jelous now:mad: Best of look,keep us updated how hes getting on coz il be interested in getting one from abbeyleix,not to far from me.
ps are you kenneling him or is he free to go about the garden but fenced in from rd and fields??

He has another litter on the way so give him a shout, most of his pups head to the states. He has a good name out there. I phoned a man last week who uses the Brittany's over Harris hawks and he couldn't praise them enough.
I keep the dogs in a run at night and during the day but let them out when i'm around the house. I like to spend time with the dogs and especially a new pup, get a sturdy bond with them when they are young. He sleeps on my feet as i write this

irish setter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Fair enough, I accept that e-collars are a handy tool. But I would only use one in a dog that needs emergency corrective training. God knows I had a dropper there a few years ago and I had to give up on him, maybe if I had an e-collar it might have put manners on him but I didn’t and he had to be put down in the end.

Thing is I don’t believe in using e-collars on young dogs from when you start out training. Do your yard work first and get obedience into the dog before you do any real field training. Getting the dog to recall and the stop are the two most vital commands to get right, if you can get the dog to recall and stop then you will never need an e-collar.

I know of one man here locally who has been trialling English pointers for years and he is against using them. Some trainers are using them to train dogs to quarter, The dogs I’ve had I’ve been lucky with and they naturally quarter, I just work them into the wind and they naturally figure out what to do. I have a springer bitch at the moment and you should see her quarter through beet, I’ve never done any training to quarter with her she’s just picked it up, Dogs which are trained to quarter using an e-collar tend to turn back rather turn out when quartering back and forth, which I’m led to believe is a fault when trialling.

Now I don’t claim to be an expert and I’ve never trialled a dog in my life, but that’s just my opinion maybe a dog trialling man will be able to correct me. My dogs are trained good enough for rough shooting. The Springer I also do a good bit of beating with, the GWP all rough shooting.

first of all love lovely intelligent head on that pup greenpeter, if he is as clever as he looks should be no problems. just to pick up on the e collar i'd never use one personally. my view would be if they had problems that an e collar was only option left better move em on to pet family. i'm not a trialling man yet but have been to a few and will be entering my first trial later this month, but i can't imagine how you could train a dog to quarter with an e collar. maybe you could train him to run in straight lines which might look nice but all you'd have is a running dog and not a hunting one

greenpeter

irish setter wrote: »

first of all love lovely intelligent head on that pup greenpeter, if he is as clever as he looks should be no problems. just to pick up on the e collar i'd never use one personally. my view would be if they had problems that an e collar was only option left better move em on to pet family. i'm not a trialling man yet but have been to a few and will be entering my first trial later this month, but i can't imagine how you could train a dog to quarter with an e collar. maybe you could train him to run in straight lines which might look nice but all you'd have is a running dog and not a hunting one

Thanks irish setter, where is the trial on?

EPointer=Birdss

irish setter wrote: »

first of all love lovely intelligent head on that pup greenpeter, if he is as clever as he looks should be no problems. just to pick up on the e collar i'd never use one personally. my view would be if they had problems that an e collar was only option left better move em on to pet family. i'm not a trialling man yet but have been to a few and will be entering my first trial later this month, but i can't imagine how you could train a dog to quarter with an e collar. maybe you could train him to run in straight lines which might look nice but all you'd have is a running dog and not a hunting one

Bit narrow minded there Irish Setter. Both my pointer which is turning out ok & my mates setter which is probably as good if not better in many ways are turning out as fine "hunting dogs" by collar training. With 40+ pheasants shot between us this year the proof is in the pudding...:eek: Both dogs would be slightly wasted as family pets don't you think?
If I said to my mate that his dog was no good cause he was collar trained & not a hunting dog he'd laugh at me TBH.
2 other lads in the club use em on their Springers & they're fine little dogs also.
If you havn't used one & hence understand the merrits it's not really justified to make such comments my friend. (not picking a fight here but sweeping comments & unfounded opinions should be questioned.)
Shocking becomes less & less once trained. I havn't shocked the dog since late Nov i'd say & even at that on the lightest setting as a reminder.
If your trialling obviously you can't use it or train with it as not allowed in the trial.

irish setter

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Bit narrow minded there Irish Setter. Both my pointer which is turning out ok & my mates setter which is probably as good if not better in many ways are turning out as fine "hunting dogs" by collar training. With 40+ pheasants shot between us this year the proof is in the pudding...:eek: Both dogs would be slightly wasted as family pets don't you think?
If I said to my mate that his dog was no good cause he was collar trained & not a hunting dog he'd laugh at me TBH.
2 other lads in the club use em on their Springers & they're fine little dogs also.
If you havn't used one & hence understand the merrits it's not really justified to make such comments my friend. (not picking a fight here but sweeping comments & unfounded opinions should be questioned.)
Shocking becomes less & less once trained. I havn't shocked the dog since late Nov i'd say & even at that on the lightest setting as a reminder.
If your trialling obviously you can't use it or train with it as not allowed in the trial.

epointer i don't mean to knock the ecollar or people who use them and i see them as an alternate means of training and i have seen them work. i'm not making sweeping comments i'm just giving my opinion. i just don't see the benefits. i have a dog at the moment and she has a problem that i could easily cure with a e collar but i like to keep my own line of dogs and if i fix it now chances are she will pass it on to her pups and i'm getting nowhere. if i went to buy a pup and was given a trial with parents and 1 had an e collar on for the same reasons i wouldn't buy. as i said i'm not telling this way is right and that way is wrong i'm just saying my way don't include the e collar.

EPointer=Birdss

irish setter wrote: »

epointer i don't mean to knock the ecollar or people who use them and i see them as an alternate means of training and i have seen them work. i'm not making sweeping comments i'm just giving my opinion. i just don't see the benefits. i have a dog at the moment and she has a problem that i could easily cure with a e collar but i like to keep my own line of dogs and if i fix it now chances are she will pass it on to her pups and i'm getting nowhere. if i went to buy a pup and was given a trial with parents and 1 had an e collar on for the same reasons i wouldn't buy. as i said i'm not telling this way is right and that way is wrong i'm just saying my way don't include the e collar.

Fair enough each to their own.
I think your point about not breeding from a dog with flaws is valid but if it has inherent/instinctual flaws that need to be trained out the method of training is irrelevant when it comes to breeding. Their is nature vrs nurture arguement here.
There is strong likely hood that if you finally remove or reduce this flaw in her she will pass it on anyway. I doubt your training will affect her DNA short term. If she has the capability mentally for it to be removed then so should the pups as this trait should also be passed down.
If only Darwin was around to chip into this discussion :D

My way to look at it is if the dog has natural potential to hunt & the will & intelligence to learn then they are worth breeding from. A miller of hunter that has no kop on & can't be broken so to speak is a free spirit better left as a one off...
The training method you use is personal preference but regardless what way you do it if you have a good bond with your dog & he works right for you then what more do you need???;)

greenpeter

Just a update on the pup.
He is a great little dog so willing to please and taking to his training very well, been concentrating on the recall and sit and he never fails.
Went out for a walk last Friday to see how he would react to nature and it was unreal what happened,
Walking trough some long grass heading into a stiff breeze and the pup wouldn't leave my side,
but then out of no where he started pulling forward about 30 yards in front of me and froze solid on the spot:eek:,
i taught he was at nothing so i walked up to him praising him,
then i continued to move forward about ten yards and up got two woodcock,
he didn't what happened poor fellow,
i could not believe my eyes and maybe it was just a fluke but you wouldn't imagine how happy i was:D.
So now its back to basics to imprint the recall and the introduction of the whistle.

EPointer=Birdss

greenpeter wrote: »

Just a update on the pup.
He is a great little dog so willing to please and taking to his training very well, been concentrating on the recall and sit and he never fails.
Went out for a walk last Friday to see how he would react to nature and it was unreal what happened,
Walking trough some long grass heading into a stiff breeze and the pup wouldn't leave my side,
but then out of no where he started pulling forward about 30 yards in front of me and froze solid on the spot:eek:,
i taught he was at nothing so i walked up to him praising him,
then i continued to move forward about ten yards and up got two woodcock,
he didn't what happened poor fellow,
i could not believe my eyes and maybe it was just a fluke but you wouldn't imagine how happy i was:D.
So now its back to basics to imprint the recall and the introduction of the whistle.

Fair play GP. That 1st point is a great moment. Smell of game got into his nostrils & the instincts kicked in! Bet that makes Nov seem even further away

mallards

Good stuff Greenpeter. I find mine love the smell of woodcock and if there's one to be found, they'll find it!

Mallards