BDO reject PDC offer.

dartbhoy · 01-02-2010 11:27am #1

The BDO had a meeting of there council yesterday and it was decided to reject Barry Hearn's PDC offer to buy them out. While this decision hardly comes as a surprise can the BDO keep running as an organisation seen that they lag way behind the PDC in terms of tournaments,prize money and media coverage? If the BDO want to remain an organisation there would have to be a major overhaul starting at the top with the likes of Olly Croft and co at the top table retiring and getting new young faces to bring new ideas to the BDO. Still i fear Croft and co would rather run the organisation to the ground than hand over power to anyone else!

Kingp35 · 01-02-2010 11:46am

As long as Olly Croft is about then the BDO will never have anything to do with the PDC. It's as simple as that. When Croft no longer has anything to do with the BDO then things MIGHT move forward.

Whyno · 01-02-2010 1:54pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

As long as Olly Croft is about then the BDO will never have anything to do with the PDC. It's as simple as that. When Croft no longer has anything to do with the BDO then things MIGHT move forward.

Its such a shame that this is the case as the BDO looks a poor distant cousin to the PDC. Sooner the better croft fcuks off and the merge can happen because its what the game needs.
5 million prize money this year on the pdc.
50 quid and 4 bags of king crisps for all winners on the bdo tour.

leggo · 01-02-2010 2:40pm

It was never going to happen now. This whole move was just posturing on Hearn's part to put pressure on the BDO higher-up's so that it can happen down the line.

Roadend · 02-02-2010 4:30pm

I'm no fan of Croft but as I understand it was it not the counties the voted massively in favour of rejecting this deal, especially as Hearn had given them a fairly lack lustre proposal

whaaames · 02-02-2010 9:21pm

I reckon Hearn did it both as a big 'FU' statement to olly and the bdo but also as a bit of a wet fish.
Like him making an offer like that, albeit lacklustre, is a real were better than you effort, but also a bit of seriousness in te somewhere. If they say no, the PDC are still number 1 and if they say yea (which won't EVER happen while olly is top man) then Hearn is in total control..!

I don't know whether I'd be mad about the idea though,..!

dartbhoy · 04-02-2010 10:22am

Some details of the meeting are coming through now on UK darts websites about this BDO council meeting last sunday. There was a total amount of 64 votes with the counties and BDO directors voting. The end result was 56-8 in favour of the BDO with 8 counties voting for the PDC takeover.As people on these sites said 8 counties were prepared to accept the PDC and that has potential to cause a split in the counties set up. Hearn has said he will not make any further bids for the BDO but secretly i reckon he's delighted that some counties are not happy with the BDO and it has the potential to cause trouble down the line which i'm sure he'll be ready to take advantadge of!

Devastator · 04-02-2010 12:23pm

In 3-4 years(at most) the BDO will be a complete amateur organisation.

All Hearn has to do is push through and take some of the better players that will move(O Shea,Fitton,Waites) and leave it as the only reckonised players are Adams and Hankey.

How long will the BBC keep paying for such a poor competition? The WC's were a joke, even the BBC(as was complained about on this forum) cut short coverage of live games to show gardening programs or some other crap.

dionsiseire · 04-02-2010 1:23pm

i think it says enough that if you didnt have a red button you couldnt watch

NTL, Chorus, UPC cannot watch the BBC Darts
BBC has moved focus of it to a behind the scene's program, i only really saw round up programs to see what happened

As Hearne said in the interview video

There is only one World Champion of Professional Darts

and that is Phil "The Power" Taylor

Lemegeton · 04-02-2010 5:32pm

obviously the counties voted against. The county system is the only thing the BDO does well and its the reason it still exists. The pro side of the BDO is the problem and alas as long as the counties have a say in the matter then the takeover wont happen. if barry wants the BDO then he needs to get the counties on his side and sweeten the deal for them. maybe these 8 counties is a starting point

dionsiseire · 04-02-2010 5:37pm

Personally i think Barry Hearne would do well to take over County Operations in Smaller Countries and start it in Countries that have none.

If the PDC offered money and assistance to setup a fulltime amateur tour for weekly events and threw money down it, i could see the county boards in ireland quickly swaying in favour of a new improved and financed setup.

If he proved he was commited and did a good amateur tour in other countries, the english counties might get swayed

recylingbin · 05-02-2010 8:24pm

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

I have done no research on this, but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

SwdDub · 05-02-2010 8:45pm

Hearn ruined snooker? Thats news to me.

Of course Hearn and the PDC are interested in making money. Is he meant to do it out of the good of his heart? He is a businessman first and foremost. So promotion and expanding and helping the PDC are all in his interests. The better the PDC does the better for Hearn.

Who gives a monkeys if the BDO are the plucky amateur keeping the corinthian spirit going if the standard is rubbish.

The sooner its just one big organisation the better. The BDO Worlds were garbage this year.

Degag · 05-02-2010 8:49pm

recylingbin wrote: »

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

I have done no research on this, but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

The fact that the BDO is watched by more people is irrevelant in this discussion. BDO is on BBC which is free to air while PDC is on Sky which is not.

We've had this discussion before about the PDC being better than the BDO and while the difference in players isn't as huge as people imagine, the PDC pretty much trumps the BDO in every other department. Commentators, Analists, Presenters, Spotters, Lighting, Announcing, Crowds (?), Entrances, Music, Walk on Girls:), Prizemoney etc.

Barry Hearn has being involved in the sport for a long time now, he is unlikely to "ruin" it considering he has brought it so far. Also, how do you contend that he has ruined snooker since he only became chairman last year some time?

Kingp35 · 05-02-2010 8:58pm

recylingbin wrote: »

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

I have done no research on this, but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

Everything about that post is wrong!

dionsiseire · 06-02-2010 1:32am

recylingbin wrote: »

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

Phil Taylor is a different beast but im sorry, Barney, Wade, King, Jenkins, Lewis would all for the best part in a decent length format put any BDO player put before them to the sword. The PDC's Top 16 is a leap in standard over almost the entire BDO Field

As you go down the field you see guys who more or less average 90 to 80ish, but these guys would still do well in the BDO, if im correct, Chisnall was the only player to break 100 average. How many PDC players finished over 100 game on game? Lewis did it 4 rounds in a row and lost to Taylor averaging 103. That is a standard you just dont see in the BDO, there are 3 MAYBE 4 players who can reach a 100 standard and they dont do it often enough, if O Shea and Chiznall leave the BDO, god help them

recylingbin wrote: »

I have done no research on this

Clearly

recylingbin wrote: »

but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

Are you Serious? BBC is the British broadcaster, They enjoy the Luxury of being in everyone's room, Viewing Figures for 2009 saw 3.1m watching the BBC World Championship Final, and 900k watching the PDC World Championship Final, so the PDC manage to get 30% of the viewing figures for their World Championship Final despite being a subscription only channel, but SBS6 gave 1.4m viewers in holland and in Germany DSF gave 730k viewers. Not such a big gap now.SBS6 i believe ended their coverage of the event in 2008

But your comment is that all PDC event put together would not exceed 3.1m viewers? Your absolutely nuts! Grand Slam of Darts on ITV got between 600k - 800k viewing all through the tournament, thats not to Count the Las Vegas Desert Classic which has an American broadcasting viewing + the sky viewers
The Grand Prix in Dublin, The UK Open in Bolton, and i cant even find Viewing Figures for Premier League Darts which Sky have said is their second highest viewed program next to football, so i imagine 500k - 1m viewers are gotten there.

recylingbin wrote: »

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO holds 1 Televised "Pro" event as i put parenthesis around Pro because its not really. The PDC gives the most money to top 32 players, but the best players in every pro tour in every sport, the top teams and players get money spinning events, top 4 football get champions league, Top 10 in Europe and US get Ryder Cup events, Top 32 in Golf get invited to invitational only tournaments. Every sport running ranking and seedings favouring the top players.

Funnily enough, the BDO does exactly the same, only they cant generate the money spinning events like champions league darts, premier league darts etc because they are run by guys who dont know business well enough.

the PDC broke away nearly 20 years because of this financial ineptitude, Taylor saw it, Bristow Saw it, Priestley saw it, when all your top players are leaving you, its time to take stock, they didnt, hearne came in, Hearne made darts a household sport and now people everywhere know the players. Something the BDO cant manage.

PDC players have a much larger demand with regard exhibitions due to the much larger exposure they gain through Sky and the higher standard, thus outside the top 32, you can still make a living.

recylingbin wrote: »

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Your saying Taylor, who left the BDO in search of taking Darts mainstream and getting the sport recognised on a completely new level, bringing in businessmen to run the financial part of the sport and raising the level of the game to 105, 110, 115 averages is not caring or contributing to the sport?

Lets face absolute facts here because your statements seem to be more green eyed monster, your saying that professional sportsmen that EARN THEIR LIVING from playing darts should not be concerned with money? This is the stupidest statement you've made, im sure Chisnal and Wolfie were turning down the 100k and 30k cheque for 1st and 2nd, sure if they were caring so much about the sport surely they would just re-invest that money back into darts right.......

Wrong, they are human, they get a big pay cheque they will take it. Simple as, They care about the money just as much because it puts food on the table

recylingbin wrote: »

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

That stupid statement isnt worth responding to

dartbhoy · 06-02-2010 4:40pm

The difference in the averages between the PDC and the BDO world championships this year is the only proof you need of the widening gap between the organisations. The only future i see for the BDO possibly is running the counties set up with the PDC taking over the professional side of the game.

Lemegeton · 07-02-2010 12:44am

recylingbin wrote: »

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

I have done no research on this, but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

were you smoking crack when you wrote this. other guys have already said what needs to be about most of your statements. but i want to point out that even if the BBC coverage of the BDO had higher ratings the quality of the coverage compared to sky and itv4 is horrendous. the bbc show the final live and other than that we have to watch 90% highlights. this is not acceptable. i guarantee that if the pdc worlds was on terrestial tv then it would destroy the bdo in the ratings.

and as for snooker . snooker has been in an awful state for years . the sport has never recovered since the tobacco sponsorship was pulled. they have struggled to get events sponsored and get prize money. this all happened before barry got involved.

and as for saying the bdo looks after darts at all levels. if this was the case then the pdc would not even exist in the first place.

attaturk · 07-02-2010 1:00am

recylingbin wrote: »

There's only one player in the PDC who stands head and shoulders above the players in the BDO.
He also stands head and houlders above the players in the PDC.

I have done no research on this, but I'd imagine that the BDO's one televised tournament a year pulls in more viewers than all of the PDC events put together that are televised by SKY.

The BDO looks after darts at all levels.
The PDC look after some 32 players.

The BDO players care about the sport.
The PDC players care about money.

Barry Hearn has already ruined snooker, what's to say he won't do the same to darts?

NO RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!! do research before you type for gods sake not one statement in this post makes any sense

recylingbin · 09-03-2010 4:46am

SwdDub wrote: »

Of course Hearn and the PDC are interested in making money. Is he meant to do it out of the good of his heart? He is a businessman first and foremost. So promotion and expanding and helping the PDC are all in his interests. The better the PDC does the better for Hearn.

The sooner its just one big organisation the better. The BDO Worlds were garbage this year.

No-one is saying that they should do it for free. But I'd place having the interests of the sport, as a whole, above having the interests of the top 32.
It's not all about money. My fear is that the lower levels would suffer greatly as the televised side of things motored well. If that happens, where do tomorrow's players come from?

I agree it would be nice if it was one organisation again, but not on the PDC's terms.

Degag wrote: »

We've had this discussion before about the PDC being better than the BDO and while the difference in players isn't as huge as people imagine, the PDC pretty much trumps the BDO in every other department. Commentators, Analists, Presenters, Spotters, Lighting, Announcing, Crowds (?), Entrances, Music, Walk on Girls:), Prizemoney etc.

First part is correct
Second part, what? who cares about the commentators, analysts presenters, etc? I watch darts to watch the darts. Also, that's your opinion. Mine could be diferent. BBC don't have Sid Waddell, so they're miles ahead in the commentary stakes.

Kingp35 wrote: »

Everything about that post is wrong!

Top argument. Well done.

dionsiseire wrote: »

Phil Taylor is a different beast but im sorry, 1)Barney, Wade, King, Jenkins, Lewis would all for the best part in a decent length format put any BDO player put before them to the sword. The PDC's Top 16 is a leap in standard over almost the entire BDO Field

As you go down the field you see guys who more or less average 90 to 80ish, but these guys would still do well in the BDO, if im correct, Chisnall was the only player to break 100 average. How many PDC players finished over 100 game on game? Lewis did it 4 rounds in a row and lost to Taylor averaging 103. That is a standard you just dont see in the BDO, there are 3 MAYBE 4 players who can reach a 100 standard and they dont do it often enough, if O Shea and Chiznall leave the BDO, god help them

2)Are you Serious? BBC is the British broadcaster, They enjoy the Luxury of being in everyone's room, Viewing Figures for 2009 saw 3.1m watching the BBC World Championship Final, and 900k watching the PDC World Championship Final, so the PDC manage to get 30% of the viewing figures for their World Championship Final despite being a subscription only channel, but SBS6 gave 1.4m viewers in holland and in Germany DSF gave 730k viewers. Not such a big gap now.SBS6 i believe ended their coverage of the event in 2008

But your comment is that all PDC event put together would not exceed 3.1m viewers? Your absolutely nuts! Grand Slam of Darts on ITV got between 600k - 800k viewing all through the tournament, thats not to Count the Las Vegas Desert Classic which has an American broadcasting viewing + the sky viewers
The Grand Prix in Dublin, The UK Open in Bolton, and i cant even find Viewing Figures for Premier League Darts which Sky have said is their second highest viewed program next to football, so i imagine 500k - 1m viewers are gotten there.

The BDO holds 1 Televised "Pro" event as i put parenthesis around Pro because its not really. The PDC gives the most money to top 32 players, but the best players in every pro tour in every sport, the top teams and players get money spinning events, top 4 football get champions league, Top 10 in Europe and US get Ryder Cup events, Top 32 in Golf get invited to invitational only tournaments. Every sport running ranking and seedings favouring the top players.

3)Funnily enough, the BDO does exactly the same, only they cant generate the money spinning events like champions league darts, premier league darts etc because they are run by guys who dont know business well enough.

4)the PDC broke away nearly 20 years because of this financial ineptitude, Taylor saw it, Bristow Saw it, Priestley saw it, when all your top players are leaving you, its time to take stock, they didnt, hearne came in, Hearne made darts a household sport and now people everywhere know the players. Something the BDO cant manage.

5)PDC players have a much larger demand with regard exhibitions due to the much larger exposure they gain through Sky and the higher standard, thus outside the top 32, you can still make a living.

6)Your saying Taylor, who left the BDO in search of taking Darts mainstream and getting the sport recognised on a completely new level, bringing in businessmen to run the financial part of the sport and raising the level of the game to 105, 110, 115 averages is not caring or contributing to the sport?

7)Lets face absolute facts here because your statements seem to be more green eyed monster, your saying that professional sportsmen that EARN THEIR LIVING from playing darts should not be concerned with money? This is the stupidest statement you've made, im sure Chisnal and Wolfie were turning down the 100k and 30k cheque for 1st and 2nd, sure if they were caring so much about the sport surely they would just re-invest that money back into darts right.......

Good post.

1) I've already said Taylor is head and shoulders above the rest.
I don't agree with the rest of what you say there. They'd win some, lose some. There isn't a large gap between those players and the top 4 or 5 in the BDO, if there's a gap at all. They're obviously excellent players, but not unbeatable. The increased averages can be partially explained by the boards used. The former BDO players have upped their averages significantly, for instance.

2) I'm not going to dispute your figures, but the BDO world championship is watched across europe too. Where are their figures? For comparison.
Taking care of 32 players does not demonstrate that they have the interests of the sport at heart. I feel the BDO turning down the PDC offer demonstrates that they do.

3)
If the BDO sold up, what coverage would your average darts fan see on terrestrial tv?
None. How does that benefit the sport as a whole?

4) The majority of the big stars that left were only big stars because of the BDO and the BBC's coverage.
By the time the PDC was formed, more than half of them were on the wane.
Sky and the PDC haven't really made any stars that I can think of. Ask anyone that knows little of darts and, at best, they can name 2 current players.
One of them is Taylor. This is obviously because he is a great and enjoys a huge profile, relatively, in the media.
The other is Barney. The reasons for his fame are the BBC and, possibly to a lesser extent, the BDO.
(I know that their talent is the main reason, but they all have talent)

5) That is probably true. But what players get at exhibitions has no bearing on the sport of darts welfare.

6) You're fooling yourself if you think darts is a mainstream sport. Alot of my friends don't even recognise it as a sport, but that's neither here nor there. The BBC gives darts exposure to more viewers than Sky could ever hope to. If he wanted to try and take it mainstream, he should have done it there. If, of course, that was his aim. Which it wasn't.
The averages, as I've said already can be partially explained by the dfferent boards.

7)Why would I be jealous of anyone? I'm **** at darts. But I love it.
Wolfie has turned the PDC down numerous times. Maybe that's because he doesn't think he can compete there, though I doubt it, or maybe it's because he cares about the sport of darts in a more encompassing way.Or maybe hime captaining his country is too strong a draw for him to move.
Maybe not. Either way, what Wolfie does or doesn't think is just conjecture.

I may be arguing against you here, but I actually don't think we're that far apart with respect to what we think. We just appear to be focussing on different things.

dartbhoy wrote: »

The difference in the averages between the PDC and the BDO world championships this year is the only proof you need of the widening gap between the organisations. The only future i see for the BDO possibly is running the counties set up with the PDC taking over the professional side of the game.

the boards.

Lemegeton wrote: »

were you smoking crack when you wrote this. other guys have already said what needs to be about most of your statements. but i want to point out that even if the BBC coverage of the BDO had higher ratings the quality of the coverage compared to sky and itv4 is horrendous. the bbc show the final live and other than that we have to watch 90% highlights. this is not acceptable. i guarantee that if the pdc worlds was on terrestial tv then it would destroy the bdo in the ratings.

and as for saying the bdo looks after darts at all levels. if this was the case then the pdc would not even exist in the first place.

Yes, I am on crack Tremendous observation.
You make a fair point about the Beebs coverage of the games live. However, anyone that has sky also has the red button where ALL matches could have been viewed live. I must admit that I was disappointed by thelack of live games on normal telly though.

attaturk wrote: »

NO RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!! do research before you type for gods sake not one statement in this post makes any sense

If you can't understand and then argue a point, don't bother commenting.
Thanks.

Holy crap, that took way too long.

Degag · 09-03-2010 5:38am

recylingbin wrote: »

First part is correct
Second part, what? who cares about the commentators, analysts presenters, etc? I watch darts to watch the darts. Also, that's your opinion. Mine could be diferent. BBC don't have Sid Waddell, so they're miles ahead in the commentary stakes.

What is your opinion on the different departments i laid out so? I mentioned the "Commentators, Analists, Presenters, Spotters, Lighting, Announcing, Crowds (?), Entrances, Music, Walk on Girls

, Prizemoney etc."

Do you really think that no one cares about the analists, presenters and commentators? Of course they do. Nobody is going to watch something wiithout analysis, or at least non-hardcore fans aren't anyway.

recylingbin wrote: »

1) I've already said Taylor is head and shoulders above the rest.
I don't agree with the rest of what you say there. They'd win some, lose some. There isn't a large gap between those players and the top 4 or 5 in the BDO, if there's a gap at all. They're obviously excellent players, but not unbeatable. The increased averages can be partially explained by the boards used. The former BDO players have upped their averages significantly, for instance.

I think any player in the BDO would be hard pressed to beat the likes of King, Whitlock, Barney, Wade, Jenkins or Lewis on a regular basis. Anyone else, yes. I have often stated that the likes of O'Shea, Wolfe, Hankey and Fitton could challenge the top 10 and i stand by that, but no further.

I personally don't see how the boards can be attributed to the differece in averages. Any difference in the size of trebles and doubles would almost be unfathomable.

recylingbin wrote: »

3)
If the BDO sold up, what coverage would your average darts fan see on terrestrial tv?
None. How does that benefit the sport as a whole?

I may be wrong, but did the original offer allow for the WCs to continue be shown on BBC. In any case, the average darts fan sees very little darts on terrestrial tv anyway. It shows how much the BBC cares about the darts when they switched over to other programmes in the middle of matches numerous times during this years tournament.

recylingbin wrote: »

4) The majority of the big stars that left were only big stars because of the BDO and the BBC's coverage.
By the time the PDC was formed, more than half of them were on the wane.
Sky and the PDC haven't really made any stars that I can think of. Ask anyone that knows little of darts and, at best, they can name 2 current players.
One of them is Taylor. This is obviously because he is a great and enjoys a huge profile, relatively, in the media.
The other is Barney. The reasons for his fame are the BBC and, possibly to a lesser extent, the BDO.
(I know that their talent is the main reason, but they all have talent)

Not really. Barney was really the only big star to join the PDC. I mean, Mervyn King was a pretty average BDO player and didn't cause a stir when he moved. He is now number 4 in the world and imo, number 2 on form.

recylingbin wrote: »

6) You're fooling yourself if you think darts is a mainstream sport. Alot of my friends don't even recognise it as a sport, but that's neither here nor there. The BBC gives darts exposure to more viewers than Sky could ever hope to. If he wanted to try and take it mainstream, he should have done it there. If, of course, that was his aim. Which it wasn't.
The averages, as I've said already can be partially explained by the dfferent boards.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong here. Darts is more popular than it has ever been now, and that is because of Sky and the PDC and not in any way because of the BDO. It doesn't really matter if your friends don't consider it a mainstream sport, the fact that arenas with 10000 capacity are being filled out week in week out speaks volumes of the surge in popularity. Most people have access to Sky nowadays also, and with the internet, there are millions of people watching the PDC. You have to remember that the people who watch the final of the BDO WCs probably watch the Wimbledon Final, the Crucible Final, the Silverstone GP, The Grand National and the final round of the Open also... They are armchair viewers, they watch these things because they are British. How many people watched the Ryder Cup when it came to Ireland even when they had no interest in it? Just because people watch something in abundance on tv, doesn't necessarily make it popular.

recylingbin wrote: »

7)Why would I be jealous of anyone? I'm **** at darts. But I love it.
Wolfie has turned the PDC down numerous times. Maybe that's because he doesn't think he can compete there, though I doubt it, or maybe it's because he cares about the sport of darts in a more encompassing way.Or maybe hime captaining his country is too strong a draw for him to move.
Maybe not. Either way, what Wolfie does or doesn't think is just conjecture.

Wolfie is narrow minded. He can not cope with change. He thinks that the BDO World Championships is the best because it is there the longest. Simple as really.

BDO reject PDC offer.

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