China has about 120 million electric bikes

probe

They could break the 30 km/h speed limit in Dublin, no problem!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/global/01ebike.html?ref=business

Cunsiderthis

No wonder they need all those new power stations and coal from South Africa and Poland!

What will happen when they get richer and all want electric cars?

probe

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

No wonder they need all those new power stations and coal from South Africa and Poland!

What will happen when they get richer and all want electric cars?

China’s hydropower capacity is about 172 GW. They have a potential of about 500 GW. 16% of electricity in CN is hydro at the moment. So hydro could deliver up to half current CN electricity demand when developed.

They could have 70 to 80 GW of wind gen capacity by end of 2011 - lots more by 2015.

They have started to install large scale solar power stations (2GW each). If you want to put up a manufacturing plant to make the latest PV solar technology go to http://www.chinasolar-energy.com

As the cost per GW of solar continues to tumble, it has enormous potential in China. They have huge hydro electric plants that can be turned into pumped storage stations to store surplus solar and wind electricity and make more efficient use of the water resources by recycling the water.

Bottom line – methinks the increase in energy demand arising from electrification of transport in China will be largely met by renewables. The larger Chinese cities have bike traffic jams – there is no way that car use will replace bike use in these environments. More people will be able to afford cars - but they won't be able to use them on a daily basis.

hick

I hear there are 9 million bicycles in bejing

pinc

There's 2 electric bikes here in the village I live in!
Right back atcha ,China

Run_to_da_hills

probe wrote: »

They could break the 30 km/h speed limit in Dublin, no problem!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/global/01ebike.html?ref=business

Some of these bikes are well capible of exceeding the old speed limit. :eek:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-Bike-Xipi-quantum-1-000-watt-ready-to-ride_W0QQitemZ170284677289QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Bikes_GL?hash=item27a5c1f8a9

fergalr

probe wrote: »

They could break the 30 km/h speed limit in Dublin, no problem!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/business/global/01ebike.html?ref=business

Are you implying that normal non-electric bikes can't?

30kmph isn't that fast!

Victor

probe wrote: »

China’s hydropower capacity is about 172 GW. They have a potential of about 500 GW. 16% of electricity in CN is hydro at the moment. So hydro could deliver up to half current CN electricity demand when developed.

They could have 70 to 80 GW of wind gen capacity by end of 2011 - lots more by 2015.

Capacity and actual generation are two different things.

Run_to_da_hills

fergalr wrote: »

30kmph isn't that fast!

Its fast enough if you come off without a lid!!.

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its fast enough if you come off without a lid!!.

so thats what happened.. explains a lot :D:D

Run_to_da_hills

robtri wrote: »

so thats what happened.. explains a lot :D:D

I wouldn't be seen dead on one of these things. I like a decent bit off power and weight under me traveling at that speed. A motorbike doing 40mph would stop far quicker than any electric or push bike doing the same.

Cunsiderthis

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I wouldn't be seen dead on one of these things. I like a decent bit off power and weight under me traveling at that speed. A motorbike doing 40mph would stop far quicker than any electric or push bike doing the same.

Why in Ireland do some call a bicycle a "push bike"? I've never heard of this anywhere else in the world and it's obviously not meant for pushing!

probe

Victor wrote: »

Capacity and actual generation are two different things.

Capacity and actual kWh of output is an issue with all forms of electricity generation. A large proportion of Spain and France's conventional power generation capacity was offline in the hot summer of 2003, for example, because of either water shortages in rivers to support thermal stations (gas, oil and nuclear) or because of water temperature discharge limitations.

France had to increase the permitted river water temperatures around nuclear power stations to 30C to keep some of them operational. I like a quick warm shower in the morning - the thermostatic control is set to 38C. Rivers almost as hot as a shower....! I doubt that the fish like this. Many other n.stations had to be shut down completely. France's heavy duty grid connectivity with other countries prevented blackouts.

South Eastern France (PACA region - ie from Italian frontier to Marseille and into the Alps - ie departments 04 05 06 13 83 84) runs almost exclusively on hydro - which is very predictable and has served the mushrooming population in this area up to now without problems.

The Alps run all the way up to Geneva from Nice and support large rivers and the winter snow accumulations provide vast quantities of water storage. There was 30 cm of snow in the Nice area the other day (first since 1947) and the electricity supply was under extreme pressure due to the abnormally low temperatures in the populated areas, because PACA has almost no grid connectivity to speak of with the rest of France or Italy.

Every form of electricity generation has limitations in terms of actual output compared with installed capacity. This is where good grid inter-connectivity comes in to provide continuity of supply and an efficient market.

There is a European grid map at http://www.entsoe.eu/index.php?id=77 (the size of a postage stamp)! One has to zoom in laboriously to get a view of a region, especially in a high resolution display. The map should be hosted on google maps or a similar platform.

While entsoe.eu is relatively new, the bureaucrats working for that organisation need a serious wake-up call from on high to motivate them to organise and communicate the need for a material increase in intra-European grid connectivity and a Europe-wide liberalisation of electricity trading markets.

Pembily

probe wrote: »

China’s hydropower capacity is about 172 GW. They have a potential of about 500 GW. 16% of electricity in CN is hydro at the moment. So hydro could deliver up to half current CN electricity demand when developed.

They could have 70 to 80 GW of wind gen capacity by end of 2011 - lots more by 2015.

They have started to install large scale solar power stations (2GW each). If you want to put up a manufacturing plant to make the latest PV solar technology go to http://www.chinasolar-energy.com

As the cost per GW of solar continues to tumble, it has enormous potential in China. They have huge hydro electric plants that can be turned into pumped storage stations to store surplus solar and wind electricity and make more efficient use of the water resources by recycling the water.

Bottom line – methinks the increase in energy demand arising from electrification of transport in China will be largely met by renewables. The larger Chinese cities have bike traffic jams – there is no way that car use will replace bike use in these environments. More people will be able to afford cars - but they won't be able to use them on a daily basis.

If the potential is so high then why are they building so many coal fired power stations????

probe

Pembily wrote: »

If the potential is so high then why are they building so many coal fired power stations????

The legacy approach in China was to open coal powered generating stations even faster than British retailers blitzed Ireland's shopping streets and malls with stale, look alike retail units selling downmarket tacky merchandise.

Air pollution and related health issues became serious - as anyone who has been to China will be aware. You can barely see your hand in front of your face in many cities.

Wind and solar technologies are new, and the Chinese are just beginning to ramp up production. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64257920&postcount=5 where I have already posted data on wind capacity increases in CN. I've since seen a figure of 100 GW of wind capacity for 2020.

I'd like to see a spreadsheet of the Chinese government's planned coal generation plant installations for the next decade - I suspect it will be tailing off. Journos copy each other like bloggers copy content, and you get the echo chamber effect on "facts". I suspect that the Chinese planners see coal as a legacy and a stop gap while solar increases in scale and reduces in price. Large scale renewable energy takes time to roll out. It is quick and easy to put in thermal plants (aside from nuclear). Logically solar wouldn't work if China kept increasing its use of coal because the sun would never shine!

Ireland is in the fortunate position of having massive renewable energy resources relative to its needs.

Run_to_da_hills

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Why in Ireland do some call a bicycle a "push bike"? I've never heard of this anywhere else in the world and it's obviously not meant for pushing!

Push with our own power as opposed to being mechanically propelled.