2 jack inputs on an acoustic guitar..

seachto7

Howdee,

I'm thinking of installing an extra jack input on my acoustic. I already have a fishman prefix pro in it, but I was going to install an extra one to have that run through a guitar amp with effects, so I could "blend" the 2 channels. I'd have the prefix pro plugged into the PA, then with the other jack input, put it through an amp, then either line it out, or use a volume pedal...

any ideas or suggestions? am i crazy..!??! I'm in the Limk area, and I know a guy who I went to before called John Conway who could probably do this in his sleep, but I heard lately, he's not feeling the best (though I could be wrong..) so I don't want to be hassling him....

eoin5

seachto7 wrote: »

Howdee,

I'm thinking of installing an extra jack input on my acoustic. I already have a fishman prefix pro in it, but I was going to install an extra one to have that run through a guitar amp with effects, so I could "blend" the 2 channels. I'd have the prefix pro plugged into the PA, then with the other jack input, put it through an amp, then either line it out, or use a volume pedal...

any ideas or suggestions? am i crazy..!??! I'm in the Limk area, and I know a guy who I went to before called John Conway who could probably do this in his sleep, but I heard lately, he's not feeling the best (though I could be wrong..) so I don't want to be hassling him....

Is there a reason why you need two outputs on the guitar itself? If not you could just use a DI box. Most DIs have two outputs, an XLR and a line out. You can run your XLR lead to the desk and then use the line to your effecty amp, stick a mic in front of the amp and away you go. You can get more specific hardware for splitting and switching but a DI might come in handy for other jobs too.

seachto7

on the button eoin5. I never even thought of trying it. I was going to put a simple jack input in. I suppose that would be getting into a very technical area (like having eq settings etc. for each line...)

Eoin Madsen

If you're installing the jack after the pickup preamp then it's exactly the same as splitting at the DI input so it's pretty redundant (most DIs have a parallel input so this is easy to do). If you're installing it before the pickup preamp, then you need a second preamp inside your guitar. A second preamp is going to load your piezo pickup incorrectly though which may compromise the sound. I can't really see many advantages to doing it this way.

Two things I would also say, having attempting similar things with acoustics in the past: (1) most effects have wet and dry mix of some form anyway so having a paralleled signal is pretty redundant and (2) acoustic guitar into a guitar amp sounds like crap - and not in an interesting way. All those harmonics above 5kHz that electric guitars don't need or have are pretty important to making an acoustic not sound like someone farting in tune.

seachto7

I know acoustic do sound like rubbish through an amp, but that would be my reason to try and blend the sounds.
Have you heard John Butler at all? Though I know his setup is pretty complicated, he seems to use 2 jacks into the guitar....
I saw a guy called Jeff Lang in Limk do it too, just him and an acoustic. He split the signal some way, think there were 2 jacks, and used delay effects etc. sounded amazing...

Eoin Madsen

seachto7 wrote: »

I know acoustic do sound like rubbish through an amp, but that would be my reason to try and blend the sounds.

Running a lead from the link / parallel input of a DI would be the best way to send signal to the amp anyway.

seachto7 wrote: »

Have you heard John Butler at all? Though I know his setup is pretty complicated, he seems to use 2 jacks into the guitar....
I saw a guy called Jeff Lang in Limk do it too, just him and an acoustic. He split the signal some way, think there were 2 jacks, and used delay effects etc. sounded amazing...

There just isn't any technical reason whatsoever to put another jack in a guitar with one pickup. It's exactly the same as splitting from the other end of the lead.

seachto7

true enough... I'll give it a shot and see how I get on. I suppose getting an "acoustic guitar amp" (oxymoron????) to line out might be an option...

artvandulet

seachto7 wrote: »

I suppose getting an "acoustic guitar amp" (oxymoron????)

You should try the likes of a Schertler or AER amp if you got the funds. Sound awesome:D

Instead of 2 jacks or a DI with 2 outs (by the way, the two outs wont be the same, ones line level ones mic level), you could just make up or buy a y cable. Cheaper still!

punchdrunk

your seeing two input jacks on john butlers guitar because the sound is coming from two different sources

an undersaddle pick-up,and also a a magnetic soundhole pickup
the different gain structures and EQ settings due to the different types of pickup and their location inside the guitar would mean you'd need seperate pre- amps for each

i'm pretty sure from youtube videos that the magnetic soundhole pickup is the one he's running through the pedalboard

Eoin Madsen

Acoustic guitar amps are designed for a piezo input (as opposed to a magnetic coil, like an electric guitar), and they have tweeters for reproducing the higher frequencies. They do usually have a line out, from the ones I've seen. I'm not sure how much use it would really be but try one out.

artvandulet wrote: »

Instead of 2 jacks or a DI with 2 outs (by the way, the two outs wont be the same, ones line level ones mic level), you could just make up or buy a y cable. Cheaper still!

You don't take a split from the DI output in this situation, most DIs only have one anyway and it's always at mic impedence (that's the point of it). Normally, there's a parallel input, which means whatever you plug into one of the jack inputs you can split through the other input/link jack. The split doesn't go through the DI box.

artvandulet

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

You don't take a split from the DI output in this situation, most DIs only have one anyway and it's always at mic impedence (that's the point of it). Normally, there's a parallel input, which means whatever you plug into one of the jack inputs you can split through the other input/link jack. The split doesn't go through the DI box.

We're saying the same thing. the output is mic level. The link out is line level.

Eoin Madsen

The link out isn't actually line level or impedence, it's literally just the level of whatever you're plug into the box.

artvandulet

We're kind of going off topic here but anyway...

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

You don't take a split from the DI output in this situation, most DIs only have one anyway and it's always at mic impedence (that's the point of it).

they have 2, sort of...

If you plug an acoustic into a DI, you then run a balanced mic level signal down the run to FOH. You can also use the link out to run direct to your amp on stage. The link out is line level and unbalanced.

Which is what you already said...

eoin5 wrote: »

Is there a reason why you need two outputs on the guitar itself? If not you could just use a DI box. Most DIs have two outputs, an XLR and a line out.

and is what he's looking to do, so i'm still convinced we're saying the same thing here!
anyway, op - do that.

seachto7

lol, a lot went over my head there guys, but I'll try the DI box to start with. I know someone with an acoustic guitar amp, so I'll give that a shot...

Eoin Madsen

artvandulet wrote: »

If you plug an acoustic into a DI, you then run a balanced mic level signal down the run to FOH. You can also use the link out to run direct to your amp on stage. The link out is line level and unbalanced.

Which is what you already said...

Hmm, no. What I said is that the link out is not line level, because it isn't - it's just a parallel input. It could be at line level if the input was from a line out, like from an amp line or a keyboard or a sampler or something to that effect. But it's still just a parallel input.

A line level output would be too loud for an amp input anyway, it'd really not help in this situation. :pac:

artvandulet

ah, sorry. gotcha. guitar/instrument level.:D

Still doesn't change it for the OP anyway.

Eoin Madsen

No... but we had our fun, and that's all that matters. :pac:

seachto7

what about one of those Morley A/B boxes...?

eoin5

seachto7 wrote: »

what about one of those Morley A/B boxes...?

It'll give you a bit more control over what youre doing compared to just a DI I suppose.

Bobcat1169

Just for your information Eoin(s) both Jeff Lang and John Butler use TWO pickups - one output jack for each.
So, it's not for splitting one pickup into two lines - you're right, no need to do that this way, better to split at the DI.
The pickup both players run into their electric amplifiers is a magnetic soundhole unit which sounds awesome used this way. Not like an electric guitar exactly, but not awful as a piezo pickup is through a tube amp.
Jeff told me at a show that the reason he uses two jacks rather than a stereo jack is that he didn't want to have a shared earth between the two sources. He runs them both into the PA clean (an internal mic as well as the magnetic pickup) to achieve his acoustic sound and splits the magnetic signal, routing it to a volume pedal then effects and the amp.
John Butler does the same thing - apparently inspired by Jeff's setup - so that's what is going on there.