Drunk Driver on N7 last night

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 11:10am #1

Was coming home from Naas into Tallaght last night at about 2, and came up behind an obviously drunk driver. He was sitting between the middle and outer lane, doing 70kmh, swerving and braking all over the place.

So anyway, I hung back about 200m, and didn't even attempt to pass him, as 1. I would have to undertake, 2. Should I have taken the decision to undertake, he could have easily wondered over into my lane as I was passing. I didn't even attempt to flash him out of the lane, as this could have ended badly by distracting him, and then cause a crash.

So anyway tooting along, and a mondeo comes up beside me doing 100kmh, undertakes, and is about to undertake your man, who wonders over into the middle lane so the mondeo realises what is going on, and follows my lead, stays in his lane and hangs back in line with me.

So we approach Newlands Cross, and my gf glanced over at the mondeo, only to see its the fuzz in an unmarked car (the extra ariel, bumper mounted flashing lights etc.), and they're quite obviously in uniform.

So I'm delighted. Justice! IMO drunk drivers don't deserve a licence or a car, or any sort of sympathy.

We approach red lights at Newlands, and your man stops with his car nearly out in the junction. But, the gardaí turn of into the night into Clondalkin!

I was flabbergasted! Who's to say this guy didn't continue in towards town and cause an accident? While I'm not out to go Garda Bashing, COME ON LADS!! There's ads all over to try curb drink driving, but surely catching and prosecuting offenders should be a priority. If I, as an untrained civilian can clearly see the guy is loaded, surely the Gardaí in the unmarked mondeo saw it too! Its a stab in the back to us careful law abiding drivers, who drive with caution and consideration. And who's to say your man could have jammed on his brakes to avoid the big pink elephant, causing me to take evasive action and possibly going into a ditch? What the hell is going on I ask!

Micky Dolenz · 31-01-2010 11:15am

Did you or your gf phone a cop shop and report driver? reg etc.

MunsterCycling · 31-01-2010 11:17am

If you got the number of the unmarked you could report it to AGS headquarters but then the harassment would start.

R.O.R · 31-01-2010 11:18am

OK, lets get this out of the way first....

bongi69 wrote: »

So anyway tooting along, and a mondeo comes up beside me doing 100kmh, undertakes, and is about to undertake your man......................

So you were sitting in the middle lane!

OK, that's out of the way now. Did you think about reporting it to Traffic Watch or Tallaght Garda Station? The unmarked car probably should have done something about it.

C.D. · 31-01-2010 11:19am

Why did you not ring the Guards and report him? IIRC no penalty points for using your phone if it is to contact the Emergency Services. IMO you are just as much to blame as the Guards for quite literally, doing nothing about it.

rubensni · 31-01-2010 11:23am

You should have called 999. Taxi drivers regularly call in tipsy drivers and are often asked to shadow the drunk driver. As for those guards, they could have been called to anything but once you report it, some guard would have to make some attempt to investigate it.

Micky Dolenz · 31-01-2010 11:24am

C.D. wrote: »

Why did you not ring the Guards and report him? IIRC no penalty points for using your phone if it is to contact the Emergency Services. IMO you are just as much to blame as the Guards for quite literally, doing nothing about it.

OP's gf was in car also. She could have safely used a phone.

Abelloid · 31-01-2010 11:25am

Maybe the driver was an off duty Garda.

Anan1 · 31-01-2010 11:28am

JustinOval wrote: »

Maybe the driver was an off duty Garda.

Even if they were off-duty, they should still have pulled an obviously drunk driver. The only good excuse I can think of is that they were on their way to something more important. Had it been me, I would have tried to pull the Mondeo over to explain my concerns.

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 11:30am

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Did you or your gf phone a cop shop and report driver? reg etc.

In my previous experience of phoning cop shops, its not worth it. Worked in a shop few years back, about 300 meters from the coppers, and we had some guys causing hassle, phoned them, and they pitched up about an hour later. And this was a 15:30 in the afternoon. And furthermore, I didn't want to get close enough to read the reg, and his reg lights were bust.

MunsterCycling wrote: »

If you got the number of the unmarked you could report it to AGS headquarters but then the harassment would start.

He didn't pull in front of me for long, and lets be honest I was watching your man like a hawk. It was the GF who spotted them

R.O.R wrote: »

OK, lets get this out of the way first....
So you were sitting in the middle lane!

I'll hold my hands up, was in the outside lane

C.D. wrote: »

Why did you not ring the Guards and report him? IIRC no penalty points for using your phone if it is to contact the Emergency Services. IMO you are just as much to blame as the Guards for quite literally, doing nothing about it.

As explained above, I've had negative experiences anytime I've rang the garda station (its still in my phone book from my retail days). Also having dialled 999 in the past, this can also be lacking (was put through to Tralee instead of Tallaght). And regarding me being just as to blame, I'm sorry but I disagree. Its a Garda's mandate to uphold the law of the land. While I do appreciate that as I good citizen I should have done something about it. But what was I to do? Phone the Gardaí and then tail him to keep them updated? Use the phone while driving behind a drunk driver who could do something stupid at any moment and I would have to take evasive action while on the phone to them?

Guell72 · 31-01-2010 11:33am

I called 999 once to report a drunk driver in front of me. I was read out of it for calling 999 and given a number to call. I said forget it, im driving, cant write the number down.

rubensni · 31-01-2010 11:37am

So let's get this straight. You wouldn't call the guards because in your experience it's not worth the effort, but you'll post it on boards the next day when it's too late for them to do anything about it?

Abelloid · 31-01-2010 11:37am

Anan1 wrote: »

Even if they were off-duty, they should still have pulled an obviously drunk driver. The only good excuse I can think of is that they were on their way to something more important. Had it been me, I would have tried to pull the Mondeo over to explain my concerns.

The drunk driver.

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 11:38am

Anan1 wrote: »

Even if they were off-duty, they should still have pulled an obviously drunk driver. The only good excuse I can think of is that they were on their way to something more important. Had it been me, I would have tried to pull the Mondeo over to explain my concerns.

Right let me clarify the time scale. From realising that the mondeo was an unmarked until they actually turned off, and me moving into the lane to turn onto the Belgard Road, was less than 10 seconds. And the lights went green as I came to a stop. So pulling the unmarked over would have been impossible, even if they had humoured me

It didn't seem that they were on their way to anything more important. If they were, the blues and two's should have been on

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 11:39am

rubensni wrote: »

So let's get this straight. You wouldn't call the guards because in your experience it's not worth the effort, but you'll post it on boards the next day when it's too late for them to do anything about it?

I'm not posting it on here for anything to be done about it! I am just stating an experience that happened to me, and my thoughts on the matter.
And do you think that me calling the station to report the incident, and stating that two of their members were there, that they would actually humour me?

Anan1 · 31-01-2010 11:47am

bongi69 wrote: »

And do you think that me calling the station to report the incident, and stating that two of their members were there, that they would actually humour me?

Nobody can definitively answer that one. What is certain is that nothing will happen if nobody makes the call.

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 11:53am

Anan1 wrote: »

Nobody can definitively answer that one. What is certain is that nothing will happen if nobody makes the call.

Yes and in hindsight thats what I should have done. But as I've stated, its not like I had 5 mins to actually quantify the situation. From realising the mondeo was garda to parting ways with the situation was less than 10-15 seconds total. And even then, I was going to be going somewhere unfamiliar so my mind turned to directions. I know there's things I should and shouldn't have done, and I am well prepared to accept well founded criticism for not doing them, I am more shocked at the gardaí in the unmarked doing nothing

Dermot Illogical · 31-01-2010 11:59am

If your description of events is correct, the Gardai involved were completely in the wrong imho. I still think you should have called it in. It costs little, and can often produce a result. Of course you'd never hear back one way or the other, but your concience would be clear that you had done all you could.

rubensni · 31-01-2010 12:00pm

bongi69 wrote: »

And do you think that me calling the station to report the incident, and stating that two of their members were there, that they would actually humour me?

I don't know. No one knows. All I can proffer is that calling it in might have got a response.
Take the example of the new Chief Superintendent of traffic in Galway who was caught for drink driving after a member of the public called it in. I'm guessing that if he wasn't reported by her and instead came across a checkpoint by chance he'd have been waved through once he'd stuck his badge out the window.

-Chris- · 31-01-2010 12:00pm

Trafficwatch: 1890 205 805

Save it in your phone.

I've called them before and they've been good to deal with. I've gotten follow up calls from the Gardai about the situation, so the information obviously gets passed on.

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 12:03pm

-Chris- wrote: »

Trafficwatch: 1890 205 805

Save it in your phone.

I've called them before and they've been good to deal with. I've gotten follow up calls from the Gardai about the situation, so the information obviously gets passed on.

Now that one I didn't know.

Berty · 31-01-2010 12:11pm

bongi69 wrote: »

Now that one I didn't know.

There are signs on most national routes with these details.

rubensni · 31-01-2010 12:20pm

Call 999 in an emergency. That traffic watch service is more for making allegations of previous misbehaviour.

AugustusMinimus · 31-01-2010 12:22pm

No offence, but some people here seem to be attacking the OP, who isn't legal obliged to phone in the where abouts of a drunk driver and yet are ignoring the fact that a Garda, who's job it is to arrest drunk drivers completely ignored the law breaker.

There seems to be a general feeling among some on these boards that no matter what Gardai do, they are never in the wrong.

My personal opinion is that ringing in prob mightn't have caught this driver. It was 2 in the morning and there might not have been available Gardai.

On the other hand, for a Garda to be confronted with very obvious signs of drunk driving and then not to act on it is near unforgivable.

hapenny · 31-01-2010 12:27pm

sounds like the gards were on another call, still no reason for not stopping and taking his keys off him, if they noticed him (which they obviously did) they could of at least called another car to sort him out, id be suprised if he did'nt kill himself or somebody else!

Max Headroom · 31-01-2010 12:29pm

I rang traffic watch once when a guy nearly deliberately ran me off the road....garda said in his words "we'll look into it BUT if we proceed with it will YOU be willing to take time off work to go to court at your own expence"....need i say more..:rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus · 31-01-2010 12:31pm

hapenny wrote: »

sounds like the gards were on another call, still no reason for not stopping and taking his keys off him, if they noticed him (which they obviously did) they could of at least called another car to sort him out, id be suprised if he did'nt kill himself or somebody else!

I would imagine that forcing another car off the road, using forced entry into the car and finally stealing another person's property (car keys) would not be lawful.

On the other hand, if such was done by a Garda....

-Chris- · 31-01-2010 12:33pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I would imagine that forcing another car off the road, using forced entry into the car and finally stealing another person's property (car keys) would not be lawful.

On the other hand, if such was done by a Garda....

I don't get your point.

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 12:34pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

No offence, but some people here seem to be attacking the OP, who isn't legal obliged to phone in the where abouts of a drunk driver and yet are ignoring the fact that a Garda, who's job it is to arrest drunk drivers completely ignored the law breaker.

There seems to be a general feeling among some on these boards that no matter what Gardai do, they are never in the wrong.

My personal opinion is that ringing in prob mightn't have caught this driver. It was 2 in the morning and there might not have been available Gardai.

On the other hand, for a Garda to be confronted with very obvious signs of drunk driving and then not to act on it is near unforgivable.

This is my sentiment exactly. Forget for a moment what my personal actions were, they are not what I started this thread for, neither did I expect to recieve the replies I have. Its the lack of action on the Garda's behalf that I wanted to focus on.

AugustusMinimus · 31-01-2010 12:36pm

-Chris- wrote: »

I don't get your point.

Sorry, I misread the quoted post. Thought that poster was saying it was no reason for the OP not to force the car off the road etc.

-Chris- · 31-01-2010 12:38pm

bongi69 wrote: »

This is my sentiment exactly. Forget for a moment what my personal actions were, they are not what I started this thread for, neither did I expect to recieve the replies I have. Its the lack of action on the Garda's behalf that I wanted to focus on.

But (and not standing up for the Gardai blindly, just giving them beneift of the doubt), would you not accept that they were possibly on their way to something more important or already somehow otherwise engaged?

They may have radioed it in and you'd never have known.

I take your point that it's frustrating, but we'll never have the full facts on this one...

Dermot Illogical · 31-01-2010 12:39pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

I rang traffic watch once when a guy nearly deliberately ran me off the road....garda said in his words "we'll look into it BUT if we proceed with it will YOU be willing to take time off work to go to court at your own expence"....need i say more..:rolleyes:

If you said no, you've nobody to blame but yourself if he gets away with it. Nobody else can stand up and be the Injured Party on your behalf, or give your witness evidence for you.

Dermot Illogical · 31-01-2010 12:42pm

bongi69 wrote: »

This is my sentiment exactly. Forget for a moment what my personal actions were, they are not what I started this thread for, neither did I expect to recieve the replies I have. Its the lack of action on the Garda's behalf that I wanted to focus on.

If they saw what you saw, and interpreted it the same way...they were wrong full stop.
There is no excuse.

AugustusMinimus · 31-01-2010 12:44pm

Anyways, even if the Garda was occupied by a more important matter, shouldn't it be taken as canon that the Garda would have radioed in about the drunk driver.

I'd imagine that a Garda radioing in would have a better response than a phone call from an ordinary citizen.

Are we to assume that the Garda in question was too stupid/lazy to radio this in ?

-Chris- · 31-01-2010 12:46pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Are we to assume that the Garda in question was too stupid/lazy to radio this in ?

Again, how do we know they didn't?

bongi69 · 31-01-2010 12:46pm

-Chris- wrote: »

But (and not standing up for the Gardai blindly, just giving them beneift of the doubt), would you not accept that they were possibly on their way to something more important or already somehow otherwise engaged?

They may have radioed it in and you'd never have known.

I take your point that it's frustrating, but we'll never have the full facts on this one...

I do agree with you to a point. They may have been on the blower and reported it in, and we'll never know for certain. However, if they were heading for something more important, would they not think to have the lights and siren on? Anything more important than an extreme hazard on a dual carrigeway should warrant the blues and two's

And this guy didn't just have the 2 or 3. He was definately far gone.

AugustusMinimus · 31-01-2010 12:47pm

-Chris- wrote: »

Again, how do we know they didn't?

Exactly. We don't know. Surely we should assume though that a trained officer would radio this in. It doesn't take training in templemore to tell that a car swerving all over the place is being driven by a driver under the influence.

In addition, if the Garda had been rushing to something more important, why did he slow down and follow patiently behind the drunk driver if he was in a rush to something more important.

I know this is all speculating but these are fairly odd actions by the Garda. Either overtake the drunk driver and keep going at 100kph or pull him over.

Owen · 31-01-2010 12:47pm

Mother of god, how is this thread still going? The OP comes in to make a comment about something he saw, and 3 pages of moral handouts follow. Give the guy a break!

Abelloid · 31-01-2010 12:49pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Mother of god, how is this thread still going? The OP comes in to make a comment about something he saw, and 3 pages of moral handouts follow. Give the guy a break!

Only one page here, with a few 'moral handouts'.

MunsterCycling · 31-01-2010 12:53pm

PD you need to increase the number of posts per page, it hasn't even reached one yet.

Regardless if the GS were on the way to another call their job is to protect the public and that takes precidence, they could have just bumndled this idiot into the back of the Mondeo and given him to a marked car when they got where they were going.

MC

Well OK now its reached one!

crótach · 31-01-2010 3:42pm

I can't believe you're crucifying the only guy who did nothing wrong!

What about the drunk driver? Guess that's ok?

Or the guardaí who couldn't be arsed doing their job? Guess that's normal, too.

bongi69 · 01-02-2010 10:18am

Right I went to Tallaght Garda station yesterday afternoon to report the incident, to be told that they don't police the N7, its a Clondalkin Station matter, and that the car could have been from the Naas station, so then I'd have to go to Naas to report it.

The garda at the desk didn't seem bothered, and when I asked for it to be noted, she just rehashed the above statement to me.

I don't go to Naas on a regular basis, so I'm not driving there just to report this, and Clondalkin Garda station didn't answer their phone.

This has brought up another thought on the matter. Had the car and the Gardaí driving it been based in Naas, do they have powers in an area policed by another station? Or is there such a thing as a jurisdiction here, as in the US?

Dermot Illogical · 01-02-2010 10:59am

bongi69 wrote: »

Right I went to Tallaght Garda station yesterday afternoon to report the incident, to be told that they don't police the N7, its a Clondalkin Station matter, and that the car could have been from the Naas station, so then I'd have to go to Naas to report it.

The garda at the desk didn't seem bothered, and when I asked for it to be noted, she just rehashed the above statement to me.

I don't go to Naas on a regular basis, so I'm not driving there just to report this, and Clondalkin Garda station didn't answer their phone.

This has brought up another thought on the matter. Had the car and the Gardaí driving it been based in Naas, do they have powers in an area policed by another station? Or is there such a thing as a jurisdiction here, as in the US?

To be honest, reporting it at this stage is only of use if you're looking to complain about the lack of action by the Gardai in the unmarked car (which might be no bad thing imho). The culprit is well sobered-up at this stage.
There is no question of jurisdiction. Ya can't race 'em to the county line here.

bongi69 · 01-02-2010 11:17am

RT66 wrote: »

To be honest, reporting it at this stage is only of use if you're looking to complain about the lack of action by the Gardai in the unmarked car (which might be no bad thing imho). The culprit is well sobered-up at this stage.
There is no question of jurisdiction. Ya can't race 'em to the county line here.

Well that was my intention. But it was only after I told them that I wanted to report the inaction on the garda's behalf, that the attitude that it was a different station's problem arose. The drunk driver did p*ss me off, but the garda doing nothing was the icing on the cake.

stevenmu · 01-02-2010 11:25am

There's a lot of people out there with very poor lane discipline who will swerve into another lane when cars are trying to pass them, especially when a car is passing them on the left. I don't think a garda would make a judgement that a driver is drunk based on this just happening once. While the OP was behind the drunk driver for long enough to see enough incidents to decide the driver was drunk, is it possible the gardaí in the unmarked car were only in view long enough to see the one bad incident and put it down to simply bad driving? They could easily have been on route to something which was more important than berating a bad driver for a silly mistake, but not urgent enough to use the lights/sirens.

Stark · 01-02-2010 1:08pm

I would have thought if they were on their way to something important, they'd be doing a pacier speed than 100km/hr even if they weren't using lights and sirens.

faceman · 01-02-2010 1:18pm

No point in beating up the gardai in the absence of the full facts. (No point beating up the OP either)

if it was me, I would have contacted the gardai (via trafficwatch) last night when i came across it. Its a pity more and more people dont use Trafficwatch.

OP, you could ring this one in to Gerry Ryan, he loves this kind of stuff and has contacts in the Garda press office that he regular consults when there are issues like this.

Drunk Driver on N7 last night

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