Plumber/heating engineer?

looksee

I need to get an oil boiler replaced/moved to a different place, all piping in house replaced (its microbore) and insulated where appropriate, new rads and thermostatic valves and a new insulated hot tank. (I feel weak just thinking about the upheaval :eek: )
Should I be looking for a heating engineer or a plumber, or can anyone recommend someone in the southeast?

items

Most plumbers install boilers along with fitting pipe work and cylinders. Heating engineer tend to only commission / service boilers but you can sometimes find a combination of both, a plumber who is also qualified to commission / service boilers.

No idea on who's around the south east, have a look at local pages etc, look out for a plumber / plumbing company with OFTEC certification, that way you have best of both worlds.

Joey the lips

As items says a plumber should be fine. However before you start a word of caution most plumbers will actually rec you change the micro bore which i suspect you know and feel its a scam which is why your looking for an "honest" engineer.

looksee

I've had at least two different heating/plumbers tell me they can't put thermostatic valves on rads because the piping is microbore. And that you can't put simple turn on and offable (:D) valves on rads as they are not supposed to turn on and off and will leak (so why do they have arrows on them?).
I have a few new rads with valves you can turn and I use them with no problems so far.
The other rads, mainly upstairs, are oldish rads that the valves do not turn on (they were installed by an amateur plumber) so I can either have all the heating on or off, no variation.
The boiler has to be replaced and moved outside. The hot tank is not a modern insulated one. The underfloor pipes have to be insulated. I am willing to have new rads fitted.
Can anyone explain the microbore business to me?
I can get a grant towards some of this, and could get a rating for the house if I get it all done, and I think it would be worth doing.
Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated.

adzar

Yea its usually a plumbing company that do that sort of work.i got a company from dublin to do mine a few years ago,they were pretty cheap. cbm engineering is the name. they had a website as far as i remember.

looksee

OK, I have just done what I should have done in the first place, I googled microbore, and there is a load of information out there. I can now see why removing the microbore might be a good idea, if not absolutely necessary.
I think on balance there is so much work to be done, that it might be as well to remove the 30 year old, amateur piping and start again. Especially as we have suspended floors so it should not be too difficult to access.
Now I have to find a firm to do it. I have already had two chancers tell me what a wonderful job they could do, but I have enough common sense, if not knowledge, to know when I am being told a yarn!
Thank you for your help, and any more observations would be welcome.

items

Flow rate through micro bore aint great, you'll noticed difference with a larger dia pipe.

If your going to have some heating work done, dont bother with TRV's, for the price of TRV's you could probably set house up to work off room stats, 1 upstairs in bedroom, 1 downstairs in living room. Stats control motorized valves so you've better control then.

Talk to your plumber about zoning your system, he / she should know about it. You could have 3 zones, ups / downs / hotwater, 3 channel time clock, 2 room stats, 1 cylinder stat and 3 motorized valves. This is pretty much the standard of heating systems these days, its very affordable to install and its the best way to control heating / efficiency.

Have normal rad valves fitted, 3 channel time clock controls everything, simple push of a button or setting a program. During the summer you can turn rads off by pressing a button but still maintain hot water.

Some people become confused about 3 channel time clock, its a time clock which controls heating for each of the 3 zones individually, so you can have heating on upstairs at 8am, then off at 9, heating downstairs on at 6 then off at 9, hot water is then timed for when ever you need it, just set timer an hour or so before hot water is needed.

sullzz

if your going for the grant for the system upgrade you have to get a minimum amount of trvs fitted on the system along with the zone valves

Pete67

I've no wish to get into a heated discussion, but I am curious as to why some of the posters here are so averse to TRVs. Even on a fully zoned system, TRVs have their place, and will save fuel and money. The incremental cost to install them is marginal if installing a new system or having upgrade work done. TRV design has improved greatly in recent years, and they are quite capable of controlling room temperature when correctly installed in a system designed to facilitate their use.


A zoned system in a average sized domestic premises will typically have several rooms grouped together, often only two heating zones are used, with a third for DHW. Generally each room will have different heat loss/gain characteristics, for example, the downstairs zone in a typical semi detached house will often include a kitchen, living room, other recreational area, and possibly a bathroom or shower room. No single room thermostat can adequately control the temperatures in each due to varying influences of solar gain from south facing windows, cooking, baking, open fires etc. If the room stat is installed in the living room, as is common, simply lighting a fire in the fireplace will influence the room stat and prevent heating of all other rooms in the zone.

A good heating system designer will take account of all available technologies to design the most efficient system possible. Best practice is to zone the system into two or more zones, and control each one with a room thermostat located in an area with the greatest heat loss, usually a room with north facing windows or two or more external walls. This room does not need a TRV, but in all other rooms on the zone TRVs will prevent over heating of these rooms and reduce fuel consumption. If programmable room stats are specified, them the temperature of the zone can be automatically varied with time of day to suit usage patterns. A boiler interlock should also be provided, so that the boiler does not fire unless one or more zones is calling for heat.

The heating system piping should be designed to accomodate TRVs, so an automatic bypass should be included to provide constant pump head at the radiators regardless of how many radiators are in operation at any one time. In addition, the operation of the system should be fully explained to the end user, for example there is no point in installing TRVs if the user constantly sets them to maximum - he might as well have saved the cost of installing them.

looksee

Thanks Pete, the argument about zones had occurred to me, for example I would like full heating in the upstairs bathroom, minimum heating in the bedrooms and occasional higher heat in one room that is a work room. So I think I would be going with them. And as one poster said, in order to get the grants you have to have a certain amount of them.
I really appreciate all the answers though, things are mentioned that I might otherwise not have thought of, ('plastic' piping for example) and it has focussed my mind on the job.

items

About TRV's, a lot of controversy surrounds them, people are under the impression that a system fitted with TRV's will miraculously reduce heating bills, this is backed up by Government including TRV into their efficienty grant's. TRV's wont lower heating bills all that much, if fitted in the prefect situation they may reduce bills a slight bit.

Everything boils down to money, take your time and work out whats best for your budget, when you settle on a plumber to take on job, dont be afraid to ask questions and have things done the way you want.

looksee

I'm hoping that a new efficient boiler, insulated pipes and better rads will lower my heating bills. The TRVs are to improve my comfort! Thanks for your help, its appreciated.