Affliction OR Destro?

Gigilowgonewild

Hi, im having a tough time trying to choose between destruction and affliction as a warlock, just got my 4 piece t10 today,

You see i dont know if this new patch plus the 4 set bonous is worth going back down destruction again for the 15th time since i played wow,

Or is Affliction the wiser choice with its Insane over time dps,
please let me know, thanks, love to hear new opinions and suggestions,
And please dont B u l l s h i t me around, sick of 12 year olds telling there life storry

Nehaxak

Gigilowgonewild

Nehaxak wrote: »

haha true, *SNIFF* i miss tbc when warlocks were actually a challenge

Blowfish

Gigilowgonewild wrote: »

haha true, *SNIFF* i miss tbc when warlocks were actually a challenge

That picture is from TBC.

TechnoPool

Gigilowgonewild wrote: »

haha true, *SNIFF* i miss tbc when warlocks were actually a challenge

Gigilowgonewild

then u obviously know **** all about locks

Blowfish

Gigilowgonewild wrote: »

then u obviously know **** all about locks

I wasn't kidding when I said the picture is from TBC, it quite literally is. Here's an example of someone posting it in August 2007.

Anti

Yup, thats all locks in tbc s3/4 needed. Now its a little different, or was it s1/2 ? I can never remember. It was when Gladiator and merciless gladiator were around.

TheDoc

ok so a serious reply :rolleyes:


The general community consensus is that Affliction is pretty much the choice for a high geared high end raiding warlock. Destruction was the choice over the last few months, but after 3.3 came, affliction became top dog, and pretty quickly.

Granted that you have the 4pcT10 , you should notice a huge boost with your affliction output. Destruction is severely falling behind.

I'd like to refer you to the following chart, that shows the average dps done in festergut across american realms, extracted from the likes of wow logs data mining sites etc.



The first thing you notice is that the pure dps classes of Warlcoks and mages are pretty low on this chart, dont fret, its simply due to the fact most ICC engagements seem to be favouring melee.

But you also notice that affliction is topping destruction. This is mainly due to the movement that has to take place during this fight, but mostly all the fights in ICC bar maybe some circumstances.

Afflictions main pro is that your dots will tick for big dmg whilst you move. And they can be recast on targets whilst you move. If timed correctly, your dots should be ticking nicely whilst you move position to say spores, and when you relocate, you can refresh your dots without clipping, and get off a shadowbolt, then move back to your original 10 yrd spacing and continue, this is obviously for festergut only, but it can be shadowed on many fights.

The running theme at the moment is running, and avoiding poo. So having the ability to cast spells whilst on the go, or have spells doing dmg while you move, is a big plus.

Destruction holds you back in that theres only one instance cast in your rotation, and one dot, and even that dot requires cast time. So you will find that during your movement phases your only dmg being done, is your immolate and conflag dot.

The buffs warlocks are receiving are not buffs imo, they are slight improvements, but they wont solve the overall problem of warlock dps, and there is one, no point denying or debating it. As a whole on average , warlock dps is falling way behind, for a pure dps class and thats not right.

So in short I would definitly advise going affliction. You seem to be geared more then me, but even I noticed a significant improvement moving away from destruction to affliction. Heres a quick breakdown on the boss fights where youll notice the improvements.

Icc10

Lord Marrowgar

Your mainly standing in spot at the hitbox. You will be able to launch your dots and have them timed perfectly whilst knocking out shadowbolts. Depending on your raid setup, most times melle focus on spikes if they have enough dps, however some guilds prefer all shifting onto spikes. Here you simply spam shadowbolt, dont waste time casting dots, get the dmg done straight away.

When he moves into the bladestorm phase, you will, if timed correctly, have all your dots up and running. So your focus is simply avoiding flames and knock out some shadowbolts. Timed correctly you will see that your dots should be fresh when he resets into middle and you rinse repeat.

Destruction locks can obviously do more burst in the standing phase, but during bonestorm they have to do alot of movement to keep in range of the boss to get their spells off.

Lady Deathwhisper
Some guilds run this two ways, either having one person sit on the shield, or just everyone on adds then everyone on shield. Either way is fine. As an Affliction warlock however you can keep dots up on the shield, whilst focusing on your adds you need to take down, giving you that little bit more benefit to the raid overall. Theres no huge difference between either spec here, but its always nice to be able to do two things at once.

Gunship
You could do this with no spec, so lets not talk bout it

Saurfang
Your jobs to hit those adds down fast, and keep dmg on the boss. Both specs have pros and cons. As affliction, you can keep good dot time on the boss whilst focusing on the ads to spam shadowbolt. Obviously destro has a little benefit being able to burst more dmg on the adds, but there really isnt a huge difference anymore.

Festergut
Alot of movement, alot of messing. Affliction shines here. As you have to move around to catch your spore buff, you can have dots up on the boss all the time, whilst getting shadowbolts and refreshes off when you stop movement. As an affliction warlock, when that boss drops below 25% you take cocaine and go mental, which is a huge help on a boss that has a dps timer.

rotface
So your standing behind a leg, and having to move out to avoid aoe dmg from an ooze, and bring an ooze outside the raid yourself. Destro dps stops when they do this, an afflictions does not. You can keep your dots up whilst moving around to do your thing, and in some instances, warlocks are been asked to kite oozes

Youll notice from whats being typed so far, a number of things repeating

Timing
Dot uptime

They are the two most important things. I recently only learned how to time my dots well. I used a bebuff timer ( fortexorcist) which shows me essentially when to cast my dot to keep maximum dps and not "clip it" ( this loses you a few ticks).

Get your timing right youll find yourself firing more shadowbolts, and getting the best dps from your dots, and it is alot.

The above essentially explains dot uptime.


Rotation
Very simple.

Open with shadowbolt to get your debuffs on the target to help your dot dmg, then shoot haunt, after this is corruption. Remember that while haunt is on the target, it auto refreshes corruption. Next is unstable affliction and then you are on one of your curses.
As the only lock in raid, you use curse of elements, after that its your choice between curse of doom or curse of agony, I go with curse of agony personally.

So to recap

Shadowbolt > Haunt > Corruption > Unstable affliction > Curse

At the start of the fight, I usually lifetap for the added Spellpower, and then work in a lifetap when my dots have plenty of uptime. I try to keep lifetap up over 85% of the time through the encounter.

When the boss hits 25% your rotation changes.
Drain soul is like our execution. If you have all dots on the go, and use this, you do insane damage and you watch as you start overtaking people on the meters.

The trick here is keeping the dots up, without clipping, which is tricky.

So for example this is what you should see when a boss hits 25% ( and remember, you only start at 25%, if you start drain soul at 26%, it doesnt kick in the effect when he hits 25%, you have to start at 25%).

Your target has these dots on the go.
Haunt
Unstable affliction
Curse of element
Corruption.

At this point, the only dots you need worry about refreshing are haunt and UA, and if you have good dot time management, they usually wear off relatively close to each other.

So your casting your drain soul, and notice haunt is about to drop off, what do you do?

You recast haunt, you stop casting drain soul. You rarely if ever get the full drain soul channel off, so dont worry about it. Make sure your 4 dots are always up, then you get about 60-70% of your drain soul casted, and youll do the DPS!!!!

I hope this gave you ( and others) a little insight into affliction, although theres plenty of resources out there to read up on it in more detail from much better players.

You have pretty much got your T10 4 pc so your on a very solid track, try get the nevermelting ice crystal, as its very much bis trinket for warlocks at this point in time ( according to the number crunchers anyway and it looks accurate)


mmo-champion.com/class-warlock
elitist jerks

Elitist jerks has a dps chart that although not always accurate, can show you a good indication of what your dps is on destro and what it would be on affliction, and might help you make up your mind.

Things might change next minor patch with the warlock buffs, but I dont see any big change. I personally am waiting for the day that demonolgy becomes viable for damage output, as I think its one of the best specs ingame for any class.

Happy dotting

And remebmer

Clipping is not your friend

Anti

So where did you copy that from

TheDoc

Anti wrote: »

So where did you copy that from

My head :rolleyes:

Most of the information giving by anyone is a rinse and repeat.

Theres very few people in this world that MAKE rotations and athe likes, or any fresh information.


This is very much an accumulation from what I've learned from the players on outland and their input and advice, along with the guides and threads I read daily from mmo and elitist jerks

Anti

Maybe you missed the " " above

but good work, an interesting read.

][cEMAN**

TheDoc wrote:

:rolleyes:

TheDoc wrote:

:rolleyes:

TheDoc wrote:

:rolleyes:

Rinse and repeat

Gigilowgonewild

TheDoc wrote: »

ok so a serious reply :rolleyes:


The general community consensus is that Affliction is pretty much the choice for a high geared high end raiding warlock. Destruction was the choice over the last few months, but after 3.3 came, affliction became top dog, and pretty quickly.

Granted that you have the 4pcT10 , you should notice a huge boost with your affliction output. Destruction is severely falling behind.

I'd like to refer you to the following chart, that shows the average dps done in festergut across american realms, extracted from the likes of wow logs data mining sites etc.



The first thing you notice is that the pure dps classes of Warlcoks and mages are pretty low on this chart, dont fret, its simply due to the fact most ICC engagements seem to be favouring melee.

But you also notice that affliction is topping destruction. This is mainly due to the movement that has to take place during this fight, but mostly all the fights in ICC bar maybe some circumstances.

Afflictions main pro is that your dots will tick for big dmg whilst you move. And they can be recast on targets whilst you move. If timed correctly, your dots should be ticking nicely whilst you move position to say spores, and when you relocate, you can refresh your dots without clipping, and get off a shadowbolt, then move back to your original 10 yrd spacing and continue, this is obviously for festergut only, but it can be shadowed on many fights.

The running theme at the moment is running, and avoiding poo. So having the ability to cast spells whilst on the go, or have spells doing dmg while you move, is a big plus.

Destruction holds you back in that theres only one instance cast in your rotation, and one dot, and even that dot requires cast time. So you will find that during your movement phases your only dmg being done, is your immolate and conflag dot.

The buffs warlocks are receiving are not buffs imo, they are slight improvements, but they wont solve the overall problem of warlock dps, and there is one, no point denying or debating it. As a whole on average , warlock dps is falling way behind, for a pure dps class and thats not right.

So in short I would definitly advise going affliction. You seem to be geared more then me, but even I noticed a significant improvement moving away from destruction to affliction. Heres a quick breakdown on the boss fights where youll notice the improvements.

Icc10

Lord Marrowgar

Your mainly standing in spot at the hitbox. You will be able to launch your dots and have them timed perfectly whilst knocking out shadowbolts. Depending on your raid setup, most times melle focus on spikes if they have enough dps, however some guilds prefer all shifting onto spikes. Here you simply spam shadowbolt, dont waste time casting dots, get the dmg done straight away.

When he moves into the bladestorm phase, you will, if timed correctly, have all your dots up and running. So your focus is simply avoiding flames and knock out some shadowbolts. Timed correctly you will see that your dots should be fresh when he resets into middle and you rinse repeat.

Destruction locks can obviously do more burst in the standing phase, but during bonestorm they have to do alot of movement to keep in range of the boss to get their spells off.

Lady Deathwhisper
Some guilds run this two ways, either having one person sit on the shield, or just everyone on adds then everyone on shield. Either way is fine. As an Affliction warlock however you can keep dots up on the shield, whilst focusing on your adds you need to take down, giving you that little bit more benefit to the raid overall. Theres no huge difference between either spec here, but its always nice to be able to do two things at once.

Gunship
You could do this with no spec, so lets not talk bout it

Saurfang
Your jobs to hit those adds down fast, and keep dmg on the boss. Both specs have pros and cons. As affliction, you can keep good dot time on the boss whilst focusing on the ads to spam shadowbolt. Obviously destro has a little benefit being able to burst more dmg on the adds, but there really isnt a huge difference anymore.

Festergut
Alot of movement, alot of messing. Affliction shines here. As you have to move around to catch your spore buff, you can have dots up on the boss all the time, whilst getting shadowbolts and refreshes off when you stop movement. As an affliction warlock, when that boss drops below 25% you take cocaine and go mental, which is a huge help on a boss that has a dps timer.

rotface
So your standing behind a leg, and having to move out to avoid aoe dmg from an ooze, and bring an ooze outside the raid yourself. Destro dps stops when they do this, an afflictions does not. You can keep your dots up whilst moving around to do your thing, and in some instances, warlocks are been asked to kite oozes

Youll notice from whats being typed so far, a number of things repeating

Timing
Dot uptime

They are the two most important things. I recently only learned how to time my dots well. I used a bebuff timer ( fortexorcist) which shows me essentially when to cast my dot to keep maximum dps and not "clip it" ( this loses you a few ticks).

Get your timing right youll find yourself firing more shadowbolts, and getting the best dps from your dots, and it is alot.

The above essentially explains dot uptime.


Rotation
Very simple.

Open with shadowbolt to get your debuffs on the target to help your dot dmg, then shoot haunt, after this is corruption. Remember that while haunt is on the target, it auto refreshes corruption. Next is unstable affliction and then you are on one of your curses.
As the only lock in raid, you use curse of elements, after that its your choice between curse of doom or curse of agony, I go with curse of agony personally.

So to recap

Shadowbolt > Haunt > Corruption > Unstable affliction > Curse

At the start of the fight, I usually lifetap for the added Spellpower, and then work in a lifetap when my dots have plenty of uptime. I try to keep lifetap up over 85% of the time through the encounter.

When the boss hits 25% your rotation changes.
Drain soul is like our execution. If you have all dots on the go, and use this, you do insane damage and you watch as you start overtaking people on the meters.

The trick here is keeping the dots up, without clipping, which is tricky.

So for example this is what you should see when a boss hits 25% ( and remember, you only start at 25%, if you start drain soul at 26%, it doesnt kick in the effect when he hits 25%, you have to start at 25%).

Your target has these dots on the go.
Haunt
Unstable affliction
Curse of element
Corruption.

At this point, the only dots you need worry about refreshing are haunt and UA, and if you have good dot time management, they usually wear off relatively close to each other.

So your casting your drain soul, and notice haunt is about to drop off, what do you do?

You recast haunt, you stop casting drain soul. You rarely if ever get the full drain soul channel off, so dont worry about it. Make sure your 4 dots are always up, then you get about 60-70% of your drain soul casted, and youll do the DPS!!!!

I hope this gave you ( and others) a little insight into affliction, although theres plenty of resources out there to read up on it in more detail from much better players.

You have pretty much got your T10 4 pc so your on a very solid track, try get the nevermelting ice crystal, as its very much bis trinket for warlocks at this point in time ( according to the number crunchers anyway and it looks accurate)


mmo-champion.com/class-warlock
elitist jerks

Elitist jerks has a dps chart that although not always accurate, can show you a good indication of what your dps is on destro and what it would be on affliction, and might help you make up your mind.

Things might change next minor patch with the warlock buffs, but I dont see any big change. I personally am waiting for the day that demonolgy becomes viable for damage output, as I think its one of the best specs ingame for any class.

Happy dotting

And remebmer

Clipping is not your friend

Yeah i see where your coming from, theres more movement in ICC then previous raids, so your gonna need instant cast with insane ver time burst,

Thanks a million for the help, really appreciate it,
must have taking you ages hehe

Gigilowgonewild

Gigilowgonewild wrote: »

Yeah i see where your coming from, theres more movement in ICC then previous raids, so your gonna need instant cast with insane ver time burst,

Thanks a million for the help, really appreciate it,
must have taking you ages hehe

Oh and yeh demo, is the way to go, its just waitin for the right oppurtunitie(cant spell)
to use it, i thought blizz would have gone with demo after t9 2 set bonous, since 10%crit to ur pet is isane on top of fel domination, :P

TheDoc

Blizzard have said they would love a time to come where all three specs for warlocks do the same damage, but in that scenario everyone would just go demo in raiding setups, so I think its been purposefully left lagging behind, but it is a lovely roation and a good dps spec to play, but it just doesnt do enough damage to justify using it, even for the raid buff : /

Gigilowgonewild

TheDoc wrote: »

Blizzard have said they would love a time to come where all three specs for warlocks do the same damage, but in that scenario everyone would just go demo in raiding setups, so I think its been purposefully left lagging behind, but it is a lovely roation and a good dps spec to play, but it just doesnt do enough damage to justify using it, even for the raid buff : /

Indeed, i only pulled 7.6kdps last night in ICC10man, and last week i had a 3 set t10 and i was doing 8.4k

Berns

If only my rogue done that sorta dps vs our unholy DK :rolleyes:

DarthWraak

lol theory crafting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rTXjPDwtFA