Minimum beliefs needed to be a real Christian?

eblistic

Hi,
I'm not thinking of converting or anything but a thread asking "Not a catholic, but what am I ?" led me to wonder (again) if there are minimum requirements for calling oneself a Christian? In particular is it acceptable to you guys if someone says they consider themselves a Christian because they "believe" in the message of the Jesus stories but not necessarilly in:
- the supernatural
- virgin births
- miracles or super-human powers
- resurrections
- transubstantiation
- doctrine of the Trinity
- the general historicity of the stories
- personal gods?

Does a Christian have to be a theist even?

(Apologies if this has been done before).

Fanny Cradock

eblistic wrote: »

Hi,
I'm not thinking of converting or anything but a thread asking "Not a catholic, but what am I ?" led me to wonder (again) if there are minimum requirements for calling oneself a Christian? In particular is it acceptable to you guys if someone says they consider themselves a Christian because they "believe" in the message of the Jesus stories but not necessarilly in:
- the supernatural
- virgin births
- miracles or super-human powers
- resurrections
- transubstantiation
- the general historicity of the stories
- personal gods?

Does a Christian have to be a theist even?

(Apologies if this has been done before).

Christians come in all shapes ans sizes. We are numbered in the billions, so it's hardly shocking that have beliefs ranging from Gnosticism to atheistic Christianity.

I would hesitate to label people as "real Christians" because we aren't the judge. However, in terms of orthodox Christian beliefs (note the small "o") something like the Nicene Creed should suffice. I really can't see the point in calling yourself a Christian if you don't believe in certain core teachings. For example, that Christ was divine or that he was resurrected.

PDN

I would see the following as pretty well essential.

1. Personal Existence of God as Creator and Lord.
2. The Deity of Christ.
3. The Incarnation of Christ.
4. The Atoning Death of Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ.
6. The Reality of Sin.
7. Salvation by Faith in Christ
8. Eternal Judgement.

Drop any of these and I don't see that a belief system is recognisable as Christian.

antiskeptic

PDN wrote: »

I would see the following as pretty well essential.

1. Personal Existence of God as Creator and Lord.
2. The Deity of Christ.
3. The Incarnation of Christ.
4. The Atoning Death of Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ.
6. The Reality of Sin.
7. Salvation by Faith in Christ
8. Eternal Judgement.

Drop any of these and I don't see that a belief system is recognisable as Christian.

Assuming you agree Abraham (for instance) wouldn't have fulfilled these criterion, would you also agree that one doesn't need to be a Christian (so defined) to be saved?

PDN

antiskeptic wrote: »

Assuming you agree Abraham (for instance) wouldn't have fulfilled these criterion, would you also agree that one doesn't need to be a Christian (so defined) to be saved?

Of course. No-one was a Christian until after the Death & Resurrection of Christ.

JimiTime

'Christian' was first penned in Antioch according to Acts. It doesn't seem to be self penned but rather, 'They began to be called Christians'. So it seemed that thats what outsiders called them. If you believe in Jesus' death and resurrection, you are a Christian according to the words authors as I read it.

I wouldn't trust people to define it for you tbh. They all have their biased views and doctrines they wish to push. Its a pretty meaningless term from a behavioural standpoint. Its a label, that these days, doesn't even necessarily mean you believe the above most basic original definition neither. Its become a fairly meaningless word.

A 'follower' of Christ, now thats a different story. Thats a behavioural term that is pretty well defined in the Gospels. Its so hard to live up to though, that people settle for arguing over what you must believe in order to be a Christian.

Here's the dictionary definition: of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings

The religious have tried to claim the word and define it, when the above is probably the most accurate in relation to the words original authors.

Christian, by definition, does not mean a follower of Christ. It means that you can have some vague notion in your head, thats it.

Fred Phelps is a Christian, as was David Koresh etc.


Sure, most of us wish to distance ourselves from such loonies, but arguing over a fairly loose term is not the way to do it IMO. I don't have authority over the word, PDN doesn't, Jackass doesn't, The Pope doesn't etc. The word is what it is.

So in conclusion, 'Religions' may have minimum requirements of belief, but they don't have authority over a word thats not theirs to define.

Truly, what is Christ-like behaviour is whats meaningful and worthy of discussion, not the biased definitions people try to push for some word that seemed to have been penned by non-believers.
My 2 cent anyway.

homer911

I was with you all the way until you said "Christ-like behaviour". You can have Christ-like behaviour without being alive in Christ - coming back to the thread title "Minimum beliefs" - I would concur with PDN

JimiTime

homer911 wrote: »

I was with you all the way until you said "Christ-like behaviour". You can have Christ-like behaviour without being alive in Christ

Indeed, but I would think it obvious I was speaking in the context of 'following christ', not just doing nice things.

- coming back to the thread title "Minimum beliefs" - I would concur with PDN

Then you were obviously not with me at any point in my post. Which is fine of course, but in what way do you think you agreed with me

wolfsbane

PDN wrote: »

Of course. No-one was a Christian until after the Death & Resurrection of Christ.

Weeell, not in name, but in actuality they were. Abraham included. They did not know all the post-Resurrection believers did, but they knew God and had faith in Him. That is the mark of the true Christian - believing God in all He says.

We have more specifics to hold when we believe God today than Abraham did. But it amounts to the same thing - faith in Him, belief that what He says is true and commitment to Him.

Christian is just the word the world used to tag God's sheep. Now it is much abused and tags mostly goats. But God knows those who are His.

CIE

PDN wrote: »

antiskeptic wrote: »

Assuming you agree Abraham (for instance) wouldn't have fulfilled these criterion, would you also agree that one doesn't need to be a Christian (so defined) to be saved?

Of course. No-one was a Christian until after the Death & Resurrection of Christ.

Well as far as Abraham goes, remember that Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see his day, and did get to see it (John 8:56); and recall that the letter to the Hebrews (chapters 6 and 7) says that Jesus and Melchizedek were the same person, and Abraham interacted with Melchizedek, even paying him a tenth of all the things recovered after rescuing Lot from King Chedorlaomer's forces (Genesis 14:16). Also notable was Melchizedek's use of bread and wine (Gen. 14:18). Besides, Abraham's prefiguring sacrifice of Isaac certainly would have demonstrated Jesus' later sacrifice.

Besides, Jesus did have a list of requirements, including repentance, water baptism, keeping the Commandments, prayer to the Father, et al.

Thomas828

I would have thought all the most basic beliefs of a Christian were contained in the Creed we recite at Mass, "We believe in one God..."