Religion

westwicklow

Local employer gave "Mass Cards" (Catholic) to employees as a Christmas gift instead of cash/cheque/vouchers etc. Is this even legal?

johnfás

Yes, so long as the Mass Cards comply with the legal regulations regarding the production of Mass Cards.

Why wouldn't it be legal? It would be legal for the employer to give you a rotten fish if he so desired. The law does not mandate the giving of Christmas gifts (which I assume are not contained within a clause in the employment contract in question) and it certainly does not mandate the kind of gift which may be given by an employer.

If this was part of an ongoing agenda of discrimination or ridicule on the part of the employer towards employees whom s/he employs on the basis of religion there would be an issue arising. However, your post makes no such suggestsions so the simple answer in the circumstances is yes, perfectly legal. Just as it is perfectly legal for the employees to drop them into the shredder if that is what they want to do.

Lab_Mouse

westwicklow wrote: »

Local employer gave "Mass Cards" (Catholic) to employees as a Christmas gift instead of cash/cheque/vouchers etc. Is this even legal?

Now thats what I call a sh1t present.Unless you were dying of a terminal disease.and catholic.

Japer

westwicklow wrote: »

Local employer gave "Mass Cards" (Catholic) to employees as a Christmas gift instead of cash/cheque/vouchers etc. Is this even legal?

I would have thought that if some employees were not roman catholic then it could be perceived as indeed an agenda of discrimination, ridicule or embarassment on the part of the employer towards employees. If its a small employer where nobody will be offended fair enough, but if its a large employer ( employing perhaps hundreds ) then religion is best left out of the workplace.

Elmo

A mass card for Christmas? who died?

I agree not so much an agenda of discrimination but one of cheapness.

Also if you buy a set of Christmas cards from concern and give those cards to your employees are you discriminating because concern are a Catholic charity or if a Church (of any kind) does fund raising through their own Christmas cards is this discriminatory to give those card to people not of that church.

IMO your boss would be just walking on egg shells if people got upset over every small thing. I wonder if I should give a gift to my Muslim or Jewish or Atheist employees????

I do want to know what kind of Mass cards he got for Christmas?

westwicklow

Elmo wrote: »

I do want to know what kind of Mass cards he got for Christmas?

It was a mass bouquet card, stating that the holy sacrafice of mass has been offered.

There's a mix of religions involved among the employees and it caused confusion among non English speaking employees it seems.

EC1000

westwicklow wrote: »

Local employer gave "Mass Cards" (Catholic) to employees as a Christmas gift instead of cash/cheque/vouchers etc. Is this even legal?

The giving of mass cards is traditional in many parts of rural Ireland, I'm sure the employer was acting in good faith..... pardon the pun! As for the legality of this, what law would you suggest he is breaking? I certainly cant think of any.

Elmo

westwicklow wrote: »

It was a mass bouquet card, stating that the holy sacrafice of mass has been offered.

There's a mix of religions involved among the employees and it caused confusion among non English speaking employees it seems.

I still think you end up stepping on egg shells. Again, should your boss have given any kind of gift to his employees as they may or may not be Christian?

I don't know of the tradition in rural Ireland of giving Mass Cards but if it is tradition I don't think it should be changed because you might insult people who are not part of that tradition.

Personelly I think it isn't a great present. It seems a bit morbid, but really your boss was offering prayers of his faith to his employees which is something that many people in Ireland do, for example older people will often say "I will pray for you" regardless of their religion. Your boss was just being nice, he didn't have any agenda, he prob didn't even think all that much about it.

Any non-Christians in your workplace?

westwicklow

It's not my workplace but there are various religions involved, some of them are non christian.

Elmo

westwicklow wrote: »

It's not my workplace but there are various religions involved, some of them are non christian.

So do you think the local employer should not have given a present to the non-Christians?

Victor

Elmo wrote: »

Also if you buy a set of Christmas cards from concern and give those cards to your employees are you discriminating because concern are a Catholic charity

Do you mean Trócaire?

http://www.concern.net/
http://www.trocaire.org/thecatholicchurch

westwicklow

Elmo wrote: »

So do you think the local employer should not have given a present to the non-Christians?

Eh, there's a precedent of giving cash or Dunnes Stores vouchers so it seems there were many miffed employees, particularly the nonchristian ones.

Elmo

westwicklow wrote: »

Eh, there's a precedent of giving cash or Dunnes Stores vouchers so it seems there were many miffed employees, particularly the nonchristian ones.

Well the non-Christian ones shouldn't really care since they aren't celebrating anything. And the Christian/Catholic should also be a bit miffed. As pointed out before its a lame gift.

Really the question your asking is:-

Is it against the law to give **** gifts at Christmas time? I believe it is at the top of the Government agenda after the Minister for Justice's wife got a Mass Card from here employer. :rolleyes:

So really it is nothing to do with discrimination.

Japer

westwicklow wrote: »

It was a mass bouquet card, stating that the holy sacrafice of mass has been offered.

There's a mix of religions involved among the employees and it caused confusion among non English speaking employees it seems.

Wonder what the reaction of the employees would be if , for example, the local Muslin employer gave all his employees as an annual bonus some signed cards from Mecca, or something like that ?

Elmo

Japer wrote: »

Wonder what the reaction of the employees would be if , for example, the local Muslin employer gave all his employees as an annual bonus some signed cards from Mecca, or something like that ?

You have to remember that Ireland was (and to an extent still is) a largely catholic country. And Catholic/Christian traditions will prevail. In the same was as in largely Jewish or Muslim countries their traditions will prevail.

However I would hope the reaction would be to the Muslim or the Jewish employer who gave a religious gift to employees on their annual feast/celebrations as a bonus would be one of disappointment that they didn't get their annual Dunnes Stores vouchers.

I think it is a very strange gift. But currently their is no law against giving bad gifts to people. The sock market would be destroyed if that was the case.

westwicklow

Thanks for the all the advise. So, before I have a chat with the miffed recipients of the religious gift, just to clarify, there's nothing illegal with an employer giving such gifts.

Reloc8

Sorry...hang on a minute...is it seriously considered in doubt that giving this as a gift is not illegal ?

That is subject to somebody proving that doing so was not an incitement to hatred or a discrimination against them. Which it wasn't, in isolation.

When you say you're going off to have a chat with them are you advising them in some professional capacity as a matter of interest ?

Elmo

westwicklow wrote: »

Thanks for the all the advise. So, before I have a chat with the miffed recipients of the religious gift, just to clarify, there's nothing illegal with an employer giving such gifts.

I would advice that they would be making a mountain out of a mole hill. But if they really wanted to they should seek legal advice on the matter. Also by going after this employer you may hurt his feelings on his day of celebration.

Also OTT but your sign comes from a movie right, what is it name?

westwicklow

I've no professional capacity in this matter what so ever. I don't even work there. However, the situation was discussed with me and I was asked my opinion and I mentioned I'd put a posting on here just to see what's offered by way of discussion.

Elmo

westwicklow wrote: »

I've no professional capacity in this matter what so ever. I don't even work there. However, the situation was discussed with me and I was asked my opinion and I mentioned I'd put a posting on here just to see what's offered by way of discussion.

Let them know that it is a fairly bad Christmas present. And if they are not Christians do they expect a present a Christmas?

Say nothing, 'till you hear more!

What's the movie? is it a movie quote?

westwicklow

Elmo wrote: »

What's the movie? is it a movie quote?

I'm not a movie fan but you are correct Elmo, it's from a movie called "The Run of The Country" (from the writer of My Left Foot) and the quote is from a character named Coco Prunty played by Anthony Brophy (-In The Name Of The Father). Also featured Matt Keeslar, Albert Finney and Victoria Smurfit.