Are this Government trying to bring in their own Orwellian type of Utopia.

me-skywalker

With the recent Blasphemy Laws, this crackdown on begging, many by-laws and civil laws and public order acts. Also the increase in Union power and Union disruption parrelled with the powerful bankers getting away scott free, is this marginalisation of the poor and the rationalisation of the powerful to tie the binds around their citizens and tighten their control over day to day living of the lesser contributors of society and the serfs.

I can see slow inclines towards this Government trying to create a plateau race of Irish many levels above us in every form of society. It reminds me of 'olde' Georgian mentalities. If they can live in their own perfect worlds and only when it needs only deal with the rest of the world they want to be safe and want to make travel, access and security only easier for themselves so that they can return back to their perfect 'shells' unharmed and without having to see the beings in society lesser than themselves.


A Utopia is describes as 'a city operates in perfect harmony, with tolerance toward a wide variety of people." But in reality this creates further disharmony while also being a paradox with the creators of this utopia being the oly ones who live in this 'utopia' while the rest of us serfs live in squallor.

In years to come we could be back to the class wars and maybe even race riots of decades past.

mikom

Can I put this post in room 101...

Biggins

me-skywalker wrote: »

A Utopia is describes as 'a city operates in perfect harmony, with tolerance toward a wide variety of people." But in reality this creates further disharmony while also being a paradox with the creators of this utopia being the oly ones who live in this 'utopia' while the rest of us serfs live in squallor.

Say what!

Further thought: An "Orwellian type of Utopia" is a contradiction in terms is it not?
Orwells vision of a future was one of a "hell on earth" under the control of Big Brother"
I don't think Orwell would paraphrase that vision as any type of Utopia.

Tchaikovsky

A boot stamping on a human face.. forever

fitz0

Not much Orwellian to that post. Wheres the totalitarianism? Wheres the deprogramming of the common man into a worker drone? Wheres the thought police? Wheres the newspeak?

Pffft 1984 its not.

me-skywalker wrote: »

A Utopia is describes as 'a city operates in perfect harmony, with tolerance toward a wide variety of people." But in reality this creates further disharmony while also being a paradox with the creators of this utopia being the oly ones who live in this 'utopia' while the rest of us serfs live in squallor.

Em, i think you just read the definition of Utopia and promptly forgot it again in the next sentence.

mikom

They'll split your pretty cranium, and fill it full of air
And tell that you're eighty, but brother, you won't care
You'll be shooting up on anything, tomorrow's never there
Beware the savage jaw Of...... 1984

popebenny16

me-skywalker wrote: »

With the recent Blasphemy Laws, this crackdown on begging, many by-laws and civil laws and public order acts. Also the increase in Union power and Union disruption parrelled with the powerful bankers getting away scott free, is this marginalisation of the poor and the rationalisation of the powerful to tie the binds around their citizens and tighten their control over day to day living of the lesser contributors of society and the serfs.

I can see slow inclines towards this Government trying to create a plateau race of Irish many levels above us in every form of society. It reminds me of 'olde' Georgian mentalities. If they can live in their own perfect worlds and only when it needs only deal with the rest of the world they want to be safe and want to make travel, access and security only easier for themselves so that they can return back to their perfect 'shells' unharmed and without having to see the beings in society lesser than themselves.


A Utopia is describes as 'a city operates in perfect harmony, with tolerance toward a wide variety of people." But in reality this creates further disharmony while also being a paradox with the creators of this utopia being the oly ones who live in this 'utopia' while the rest of us serfs live in squallor.

In years to come we could be back to the class wars and maybe even race riots of decades past.

i think you are giving them far too much credit for having any plan whatsoever.

all this government can do is react. it has no ability, and never has had any ability, to initiate any coherent strategy for anything ever.

if such a thing as your post ever occurs it will be a fluky accident

popebenny16

say it in a thick offally accent

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

A boot stamping on a human face.. going forward

Peggypeg

popebenny16 wrote: »

i think you are giving them far too much credit for having any plan whatsoever.

all this government can do is react. it has no ability, and never has had any ability, to initiate any coherent strategy for anything ever.

if such a thing as your post ever occurs it will be a fluky accident

Yeah I agree, the present government really are idiots and short-sighted ones at that, doubt they have any sort of master plan. Enjoyed reading your original post though, loads of big words:p

Klingon Hamlet

The blasphemy law has me confounded. Surely this contravenes an individual's right to free speech?

4zn76tysfajdxp

I'd prefer a Huxlellian Utopia with lots and lots of Soma ("One cubic centimetre cures ten gloomy sentiments" ftw) and mandatory recreational sex.

me-skywalker

Biggins wrote: »

Say what!

Further thought: An "Orwellian type of Utopia" is a contradiction in terms is it not?

yes it is a paradox... which i alluded to...

Biggins wrote: »

Orwells vision of a future was one of a "hell on earth" under the control of Big Brother"
I don't think Orwell would paraphrase that vision as any type of Utopia.

fitz0 wrote: »

Em, i think you just read the definition of Utopia and promptly forgot it again in the next sentence.

Orwells vision was of a dystopian future, but I was saying with regards the higher secptrums of society will create there own utopia within mainstream society by introducing these laws to create a fear among the populous of doing something because the consequences would be punishment.

fitz0 wrote: »

Not much Orwellian to that post. Wheres the totalitarianism? Wheres the deprogramming of the common man into a worker drone? Wheres the thought police? Wheres the newspeak?
.

here is my quote

'I can see slow inclines towards this Government trying to'

I didnt't say it is right now.... It would take many many many years to create a society that functions this way, but it can be slowly moulded into this vision.


I think many past literature works like 1984, A Clockwork Orange, A scanner Darkly, Children of Men etc... and films ie Blade Runner, V for vendetta, Gattaca about the future have taken the dystopia vision and have created their own version with it with amazing piecees of work... but these have been built from our society and in these works we see our former society crumbled and the hero trying to strive for a 'freedom' or a 'destruction' of this new society.

Is the reason why we can associate control and power to meglomanics be because they own the banks? He who owns the money rules the world?

Smellyirishman

Thread is doubleplusunwin.

Iwasfrozen

Can a mod change the topic title to "Is this Government trying to bring in their own Orwellian type of Utopia ?" Because the grammer mistake is really getting on my nerves.

mikom

me-skywalker wrote: »

Orwells vision was of a dystopian future, but I was saying with regards the higher secptrums of society will create there own utopia

A utopia for noses........ but what about the ears and the eyes...

bluefinger

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Can a mod change the topic title to "Is this Government trying to bring in their own Orwellian type of Utopia ?" Because the grammer mistake is really getting on my nerves.

It's ingsoc don't you know.

and if anything's going to be changed it should be utopia to dystopia surely?

me-skywalker

bluefinger wrote: »

It's ingsoc don't you know.

and if anything's going to be changed it should be utopia to dystopia surely?

No because my point was they would be trying to create a Utopia future for THEMSELVES but this in effect would create a dystopian society for the lower classes.

MaybeLogic

me-skywalker wrote: »

No because my point was they would be trying to create a Utopia future for THEMSELVES but this in effect would create a dystopian society for the lower classes.

What's new?
Alpha males have been doing that for thousands of years.

bluefinger

me-skywalker wrote: »

No because my point was they would be trying to create a Utopia future for THEMSELVES but this in effect would create a dystopian society for the lower classes.

wikipedia
Nineteen Eighty-Four (also 1984), by George Orwell, published in 1949, is a dystopian novel about the totalitarian regime of the Party

The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson" — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments. Often, this includes the circumstances depicted in his novels, particularly Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Peggypeg

Yeah, this idea has been around since, well basically forever, have you read Marx or Althusser or Gromsci? I think you'd really enjoy their stuff, check them out.

popebenny16

well, in 1984 the living conditions of the Inner Party could hardly be described as luxurious.

has every government, from the start of time, tried to do this? not consciously i'll bet, there is no set plan.

is it a part of the human mind set to try and feather ones own nest and those of your friends and exert influence in society to your own advantage? sure thing, but that is not the same

Prof.Badass

MaybeLogic wrote: »

What's new?
Alpha males have been doing that for hundreds of thousands of years.

I Dissagree. Human society is based on cooperation. Granted some people hold more sway than others, but it's not completely hierarchical the way some people think it is. Humans are smarter than that (the whole god thing (divine right) can suppress this however).

If enough people feel they're not getting a fair deal they'll rise up, strength in numbers and whatnot. Have you ever wondered how we got to have these freedoms that are now being eroded in the first place? At multiple points in history, people have done what they believed to be best for society rather than what would benifit them the most.

As the OP's class war comment, I can't see the class gap ending. Not unless you end the war on drugs (causes/perpetuates a crime culture), reverse the breakdown of monogamy (which is very important for societal cooperation--> if every male is pretty much guaranteed to mate it drastically increases cooperation and decreases competition-which is why we are where we are today. If we didn't have this desire to cooperate we'd all be douchebag business school-spend all day in the gym types, or violent gansters/wannabe gangsters (both of whom are missing out on what life has to offer). As you can guess violence and rape would also be far more commonplace (look to the ghettos of america for a preview of where our future underclass could be headed) and probably a few more factors i haven't thought of yet.

MaybeLogic

vinylmesh wrote: »

I Dissagree. Human society is based on cooperation. Granted some people hold more sway than others, but it's not completely hierarchical the way some people think it is. Humans are smarter than that (the whole god thing (divine right) can suppress this however).

If enough people feel they're not getting a fair deal they'll rise up, strength in numbers and whatnot. What freedom and democracy we have was only possible because of a significant portion of people wanting what's best for society rather than themselves.

As the OP's class war comment, I can't see the class gap ending. Not unless you end the war on drugs (causes/perpetuates a crime culture), reverse the breakdown of monogamy (which is very important for societal cooperation--> if every male is pretty much guaranteed to mate it drastically increases cooperation and decreases competition-which is why we are where we are today, if we didn't have this cooperative streak we'd all be either douchebag business school types or schmad lads, violence and rape would also be far more commonplace (look to the ghettos of america for a preview of where the non-middle class could be headed) and probably a few more factors i haven't thought of yet.

Is the entire financial/economical (and for that matter religious) system not a completely fabricated consensus reality ,manufactured to serve the super-alpha population,with our present society and all it's different levels/classes the result? That's what I meant about those at the top creating their own utopia.
Not that I can disagree with anything you've said here.

Peggypeg

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Is the entire financial/economical (and for that matter religious) system not a completely fabricated consensus reality ,manufactured to serve the super-alpha population,with our present society and all it's different levels/classes the result? That's what I meant about those at the top creating their own utopia.
Not that I can disagree with anything you've said here.

Seriously, check out Marx, Althusser and Gromsci, you're basically paraphrasing them here.

MaybeLogic

Peggypeg wrote: »

Seriously, check out Marx, Althusser and Gromsci, you're basically paraphrasing them here.

I'll put them on my 'to-do list'.

RTTH

This Orwellian stuff is nothing new and is only just beginning.

Wait until you have your registered smart card, the Government use this data to track all your movements on the Dart, Luas or bus and use it against you if necessary.

In the UK as of today, they are talking about introducing point to point speed detection on all motorways under the guise of saving lives and Global Warming, ffs, :rolleyes: These sophisticated ANPR cameras will pinpoint and log your position every time you pass them and can also spit out summonses left right and center for other offenses such as tax and NCT.

Already all your text messages, cell site location of all mobile phone correspondence and every email or site you visited is is logged on a database and retained for two years by your ISPS. :eek:

Sofaspud

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Can a mod change the topic title to "Is this Government trying to bring in their own Orwellian type of Utopia ?" Because the grammer mistake is really getting on my nerves.

Back to Minitrue with you!

pretty-in-pink

Feck it, lets be communists


Cause that's always worked in the past right?

kowloon

Zoie Rapid Sewer wrote: »

I'd prefer a Huxlellian Utopia with lots and lots of Soma ("One cubic centimetre cures ten gloomy sentiments" ftw) and mandatory recreational sex.

Fine for you, what about us Epsilons?

Dudess

Biggins wrote: »

Say what!

Further thought: An "Orwellian type of Utopia" is a contradiction in terms is it not?
Orwells vision of a future was one of a "hell on earth" under the control of Big Brother"
I don't think Orwell would paraphrase that vision as any type of Utopia.

A utopia is a perfect, ordered society though, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

OP, I agree: the horror Orwell envisioned is surely upon us all right...

bonerm

Anyone remember that sex shop Utopia (it was on Capel St I think). I remember when I was 15 went in and bought a few porno mags on a dare. Surprised they served me tbh.

I'd imagine they've gone out of business considering porn is free and plentiful these days.

Dudess

There's still one in Cork - situated in an appropriately seedy spot: behind the bus station.

starbelgrade

There's also one in Sligo.

me-skywalker

bluefinger wrote: »

wikipedia
Nineteen Eighty-Four (also 1984), by George Orwell, published in 1949, is a dystopian novel about the totalitarian regime of the Party

The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson" — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments. Often, this includes the circumstances depicted in his novels, particularly Nineteen Eighty-Four.

well done, you can use wiki.

Dudess wrote: »

A utopia is a perfect, ordered society though, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

OP, I agree: the horror Orwell envisioned is surely upon us all right...

yea congratulations you fail at reading... and I even clarified this point futher in another post and you failed to read that too. so best be off with you.

bluefinger

me-skywalker wrote: »

well done, you can use wiki.

Thanks, I can also frame a question properly seeing as we're auditing each others abilities.