private clampers...can i remove the lock!

jon1981

hi,

just trying to understand what the law is regarding clampers. i live in a private estate, management company, private clampers. now due to the rules there is only one parking spot allowed per house and everyone else must use a visitor spot and display a parking permit, now as there are 4 of us in the house with a car, we have to share the visitor permits...meaning we dont have enouegh for each month:

question: so far i have been reusing these permits, if i get clamped can i snip off the lock and if so can i be done? i found this so not sure if it means they have no law on their side to clamp

Clamping on private property is not covered by legislation and owners must make sure that there are adequate signs and warnings notifying the public that clamping is in operation and that full contact details for the company enforcing the clamping are easily available.

Atomic Pineapple

If you damage the clamp taking it off I think you can be done for criminal damage, not sure what happens with fines etc..

squod

It's not regulated. We discussed this before, politely ask them to remove the clamp first. If they insist on leaving it
on, in your possession etc...

Anan1

Are you renting or do you own the house? I'd be a lot more worried about getting on the wrong side of the management company than the clampers, TBH.

jon1981

Anan1 wrote: »

Are you renting or do you own the house? I'd be a lot more worried about getting on the wrong side of the management company than the clampers, TBH.

renting , to be honest i dont give a damn about the mgmt company, ill just move if they get thick with me. someone told me i can remove the lock and if they give out offer to pay the cost of the lock...which is a damn bit more cheaper than the 120e fine.

Gary ITR

If you can remove it without damaging it you're golden. Otherwise cough up the €120

squod

jon1981 wrote: »

renting , to be honest i dont give a damn about the mgmt company, ill just move if they get thick with me. someone told me i can remove the lock and if they give out offer to pay the cost of the lock...which is a damn bit more cheaper than the 120e fine.

have you signed anything agreeing to being clamped etc.. is there proof of contract between you and the clampers?

jon1981

next question, should i arm myself with a bolt cutters or some sort of angle grinder in the event i am clamped...because i reckon its just a matter of time... ( damn i wish i was told about the parking situation before i moved int :rolleyes:)

jon1981

squod wrote: »

have you signed anything agreeing to being clamped etc.. is there proof of contract between you and the clampers?

nope signed nothing.

Anan1

jon1981 wrote: »

renting , to be honest i dont give a damn about the mgmt company, ill just move if they get thick with me.

Moving is probably the best plan, there's no way you'll get away with parking four cars there long-term if the mgmt co have agreed on one space per house. Remember that your landlord is a member of the management co, and your landlord presumably has your deposit.

squod

In the absesce of a contract, ask them to remove it and if they say no, I can't see a reason why you can't remove it yourself.

Anan1

squod wrote: »

In the absesce of a contract, ask them to remove it and if they say no, I can't see a reason why you can't remove it yourself.

Wouldn't the contract be between the management co and the landlord? The t&cs of the management co may be incorporated into the rental agreement between the OP and the landlord. Either way, if the landlord ends up paying for a damaged clamp it's hard to see that not being deducted from the deposit.

squod

No unless the management company are asking for money to remove the clamp. Without consent to contract the clampers can (and do) only use force to get money. Ask them to remove the clamp and explain to them that you do not consent to contract.

jon1981

never met the landlord, the house is in control of a leasing agency and the lease is with one of the housemates. we have a management company, a clamping company, a leasing company all in the mix... and when i went hassling them about the parking situation they all passed me on to the next... the net result was the leasing agency saying id have no choice but to move and they were the rules ( which were never fking explained to me!... ah well you live and learn )

Anan1

squod wrote: »

No unless the management company are asking for money to remove the clamp. Without consent to contract the clampers can (and do) only use force to get money. Ask them to remove the clamp and explain to them that you do not consent to contract.

Did the landlord consent to contract under the terms of the management co agreement?

squod

Defo a question for the landlord if he's gonna pay them for the OP. I doubt it, I would really look into putting the extra cars somewhere else.
Often the contract is only consented to after you agree to pay up.

gav240

just wondering....... if i get clamped in college can i remove the clamp myself i never signed any form to do with anything about clamps

squod

gav240 wrote: »

just wondering....... if i get clamped in college can i remove the clamp myself i never signed any form to do with anything about clamps

No, you'd have to ask the clampers. I suggest you signed a form stating rules & regulations etc.... Or in other words consented.

Darsad

Private clampers have no right to your details ie vehicle owners name and address etc , so just get yourself a nice bolt cutters and remove the offending clamp in the middle of the night as they are normally not too far away during the day just !

Hal1

The have no authority over your car, it's your's. Remove clamp. They cannot charge you with criminal damage as they can't prove who you are.

Elessar

No one really knows the answer to this. Clamping your car is interfering with it as it's being blocked, and there is no legislation covering clamping on private grounds. Then again, it's private grounds not owned by you so without a written contract you are abiding by the rules set down in the clamping displays. Personally, I wouldn't imagine that giving them leeway to interfere with your car by clamping it. I could be wrong.

Cut the bolt lock and replace it with one of your own. That way, they still have the lock and you've taken the clamp off your car. I doubt they would go to court over €120, not to mention having a judge possible ruin their entire business if he deemed it illegal.

Forest Master

jon1981 wrote: »

someone told me i can remove the lock and if they give out offer to pay the cost of the lock...which is a damn bit more cheaper than the 120e fine.

Remove a link on the chain with an angle grinder. That leaves the lock intact. Cordless Angle Grinder is £65 + shipping on eBay UK.
I got one, and I keep it on hand in case of private clampers. Comes with a spare battery.

rabbitinlights

Previously in Galway, I cut the padlock off a clamp and left it in plain sight with a new padlock and keys and nothing ever happened to me....

S.

mickdw

5th gear did a programme on private clampers a few years back. From what I remember of vicki butler henderson in the back of a van with a consaw laughing as the credits rolled, Im sure they came to the conclusion that you can just cut it off. That was based on the laws in the uk at that time.
If I was in the OPs position, I would remove the clamp and just leave it near the car. Failing that, I would buy 4 clamps and stick them on each time I park just for fun.

testicle

Can't you remove it without damaging the lock by deflating the wheel?

shaney-baby

testicle wrote: »

Can't you remove it without damaging the lock by deflating the wheel?

In Some Cases You Can But You Would Have To Jack Up The Car And Wiggle It Away From The Edge To Get At The Tyre Valve If He Has Low Profile Tyres Not Much He Can Do:)

Absurdum

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Previously in Galway, I cut the padlock off a clamp and left it in plain sight with a new padlock and keys and nothing ever happened to me....

S.

shoulda clamped the clamper and demanded €121 to remove it, I tip my cap to you nonetheless sir

shaney-baby

Absurdum wrote: »

shoulda clamped the clamper and demanded €121 to remove it, I tip my cap to you nonetheless sir

Something Like This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZeSzPdilvQ

Victor

gav240 wrote: »

just wondering....... if i get clamped in college can i remove the clamp myself i never signed any form to do with anything about clamps

You will of course not want to be chucked out of college for doing this, yes?

You are subject to the college's disciplinary rules, yes?

Hal1 wrote: »

The have no authority over your car, it's your's. Remove clamp. They cannot charge you with criminal damage as they can't prove who you are.

This is what CCTV is for. Unfortunately for the OP, he lives there and is likely to use the car park again.

The clamper is an agent of the management company. The landlord has said one parking space only (not the four being used). The landlord is a shareholder in the management company. This is pretty much a no win situation for the OP. Take responsibility and find somewhere with parking.

Forest Master

shaney-baby wrote: »

In Some Cases You Can But You Would Have To Jack Up The Car And Wiggle It Away From The Edge To Get At The Tyre Valve If He Has Low Profile Tyres Not Much He Can Do:)

Why are you capitalising the first letter of each word?

jon1981

Victor wrote: »

You will of course not want to be chucked out of college for doing this, yes?

You are subject to the college's disciplinary rules, yes?

This is what CCTV is for. Unfortunately for the OP, he lives there and is likely to use the car park again.

The clamper is an agent of the management company. The landlord has said one parking space only (not the four being used). The landlord is a shareholder in the management company. This is pretty much a no win situation for the OP. Take responsibility and find somewhere with parking.

the landlord never communicated this to me...previous tenants have removed the clamps with no ... but sure the whole area of clamping is unregulated

Anan1

jon1981 wrote: »

the landlord never communicated this to me...previous tenants have removed the clamps with no ... but sure the whole area of clamping is unregulated

I'd start by having a good look through the lease agreement to see exactly what you signed up to.

Victor_M

By law the developer should provide 1.3 parking spaces per unit built, the 0.3 is to facilitate visitors, if there is ample visitor parking you are bound to the rules of the management company, and if they have determined that clamping is needed to prevent people abusing the parking on site there isn't much you can do about it.
However if there is insufficient visitor parking available, as is the case in my estate, and the developer is profiteering from not providing ample visitor parking then remove the clamp yourself, it's very easy, angle grinder is the only way to do it, bolt cutters wont be up to the job. I have removed loads of them in my estate, where there are 14 instead of 140 visitor parking spots available. The clamping companies have no access to vehicle registration databases so,, unless they catch you red-handed they can do SFA about it, even if they did catch you I'm not sure what they could do legally to you considering they have disabled your vehicle, If I ever get caught I'll challenge it as far as I can within reason (i.e time and money) but until then I'll continue removing clamps in my place regardless of the circumstances as the builder hasn't provided nearly enough spots for people to park and leaves the residents with no choice but to pay 20K for a spot or park illegally and risk getting clamped.

Incidentally there has been a huge reduction in the number of cars clamped near where I live as I reckon they Clamping company are losing mosey with the number of their clamps that have gone missing.

Gone Fishin

Strictly by the letter of the law, a private clamping company has to ask if you if they can put the clamp on your car and have your sign a contract agreeing to this. So long as you can return the clamp undamaged, you are in the clear. Its a grey area in the law.

I have removed three clamps myself and had one fine refunded because the clamping company marked my wheel. The easiest way to do it is to get a bolt cutters and cut the chain, bring it to a welders and have him weld on a new piece of chain or break a link and reconnect the chain. Cost about €5. I actually removed a clamp in front of the clamper and handed it back to him. He called the Gardai, they arrived and laughed at him. There is not a court in the country that will prosecute you for removing a private clamping company's clamp. Do it with the official Dublin City clampers and you are in trouble.

Victor

Victor_M wrote: »

By law the developer should provide 1.3 parking spaces per unit built,

This will depend on the development standards in the council's development plan. In Dublin it varies between 0.5-1.5.

Hal1

If they were a private clamping company (apartment complex or private carpark), I'd have no hesitation in removing it, but not to damage it in the process. As far as Dublin CC go the law is in there favour.