Kane

The Volt

Kane has been my favorite wrestler since his debut in 1997. To me it seems he almost always gets the short end of the stick and screwed over in some way for a title or some big match. I'm sure Kane N Nite will be interested in this discussion. I personally feel he has been one of the worse affected by the switch to PG in recent years. He's the same age as HHH and Batista so it is not too late for him to receive a major push. One night as champion in 13 years of service seems like a joke to me for a character like him.

I would love to hear people's opinions on whether or not they think it's too far gone at this stage. I know he was contemplating retirement at one stage and why wouldn't he, jobbing to Dolph Ziggler and the like. If it's not too late, how, do you think the writers could incorporate him into more favorable roles, be it as a heel or a face.?

Kane-N-Nite

I've said many times Kane is the one who got me into wrestling. But times have changed. He'll never be as good as he was. I don't think going PG has affected him too much as creative dropped the ball with him long before it. He's now someone just to look at in the background. If he gets others over in the process, all the better. Granted He got See No Evil, but even the whole May 19th thing surrounding it was a failure. As for him putting up with it, I've read he enjoys what he does. He's big into politics & I believe after wrestling he will have some future in politics. He's my favourite wrestler,& always will be.

Gerard.C

I wonder what Kane thinks first thing in the morning when he realises what he has to do for the day, I'd say it's tough going. Some legend

D.Q

here we go.

The haters will say he can't draw, or at least cant be trusted to draw.

Whereas people who enjoy his character will say he deserves more of the limelight.

I personally feel that it was the mask coming off that ruined him. They built up the mask, and then when it came off, it was an anticlimax. The best thing about him, the outfit/enigma gimmick was lost then as well.

I think he was a big guy who could move well enough, and combined with the character, he could have been huge. Unfortunately, his prime was also the prime of Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind and HHH to name a few.

I definitely think its too far gone now for him, unless he's given a great story.

The Volt

DieselQueen wrote: »

here we go.

The haters will say he can't draw, or at least cant be trusted to draw.

Whereas people who enjoy his character will say he deserves more of the limelight.

I personally feel that it was the mask coming off that ruined him. They built up the mask, and then when it came off, it was an anticlimax. The best thing about him, the outfit/enigma gimmick was lost then as well.

I think he was a big guy who could move well enough, and combined with the character, he could have been huge. Unfortunately, his prime was also the prime of Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind and HHH to name a few.

I definitely think its too far gone now for him, unless he's given a great story.

Would agree with the bulk of what you've said there. Also think he deserves one last great story.

Also, if that's true that he enjoys letting people get big by beating him then I've more respect for the guy than I had before. Legend

Gerard.C

DieselQueen wrote: »

here we go.

The haters will say he can't draw, or at least cant be trusted to draw.

Whereas people who enjoy his character will say he deserves more of the limelight.

I personally feel that it was the mask coming off that ruined him. They built up the mask, and then when it came off, it was an anticlimax. The best thing about him, the outfit/enigma gimmick was lost then as well.

I think he was a big guy who could move well enough, and combined with the character, he could have been huge. Unfortunately, his prime was also the prime of Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind and HHH to name a few.

I definitely think its too far gone now for him, unless he's given a great story.

I think he's brilliant, dont get me wrong. Just imagine putting "1997-2010 - Kane" on your CV. I'd say his father is disgusted.

gerrybbadd

Kane was my favourite superstar also, but totally agree that when the mask came off, his entire gimmick was shot to sh*t.

"his scars were emotional" i believe was the excuse used when the mask came off, and he didn't have a singed face. What a crock. They shoulda never took the mask off of him.

I thought there for a while he may go back to wearing the mask, after the whole May 19th thing as well, but unfortunately not.

rossie1977

Gerard.C wrote: »

I wonder what Kane thinks first thing in the morning when he realises what he has to do for the day, I'd say it's tough going. Some legend

something like this

i am 43 years of age, i earn $1m a year guaranteed from my employer, i have been employed by the biggest pro-wrestling company in the world for the last 15 years when many said i wouldn't last past 1995

i have got to hang and still do with the best big man performer in the history of the industry, appeared at numerous wrestlemanias more than guys like piper, dibiase, steamboat, hennig

whenever i walk down the street of any town somebody knows me

Ridley

The man is a consistently over monster after Katie Vick. I wouldn't say he's ruined.

rossie1977

DieselQueen wrote: »

I think he was a big guy who could move well enough, and combined with the character, he could have been huge. Unfortunately, his prime was also the prime of Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind and HHH to name a few.

interesting viewpoint, for me the opposite is true, right place, right time

Gerard.C

rossie1977 wrote: »

something like this

i am 43 years of age, i earn $1m a year guaranteed from my employer, i have been employed by the biggest pro-wrestling company in the world for the last 15 years when many said i wouldn't last past 1995

i have got to hang and still do with the best big man performer in the history of the industry, appeared at numerous wrestlemanias more than guys like piper, dibiase, steamboat, hennig

whenever i walk down the street of any town somebody knows me

That doesnt make being Kane any easier though

waltersobchak

to be honest, i dont remember the last time he was even in a decent fued, probably with Shane McMahon in 2003, he wasted for sure, but when someone who is supposed to be a "monster" is no longer scary in the eyes of the fans its time for a change simple as that.

geeky

Wasn't it the case that Glenn Jacobs doesn't actually want another title reign? Aside from the fact that it'd be a whole load of work, I understood that he's getting more and more into the creative end of the business - which IMO is a good thing. Someone who's genuinely over and in a position to put over younger talent without being all-Tripsish about it is a major asset.

He has/had great talent and can definitely work a good match for a guy his size but, as other posters have said, his gimmick was killed when they took the mask off. Superficial, but I really think it demystified the character. People just don't have a 'holy sh1t!' moment when he comes to the ring anymore.

JP Liz V1

He is wasted on SD lately no feuds or matches he could be Punk's next feud if done right

Tribesmen7

Gerard.C wrote: »

I think he's brilliant, dont get me wrong. Just imagine putting "1997-2010 - Kane" on your CV. I'd say his father is disgusted.

Thats an odd thing to say. Why, because hes a wrestler?

davrho

Gerard.C wrote: »

I wonder what Kane thinks first thing in the morning when he realises what he has to do for the day, I'd say it's tough going. Some legend

Probably better thoughts than me as i head to the building site in the frost.......

D.Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdylH2JaCng

not exactly all about Kane, but the point is made. More of an impact(oh!:P) than the bald travesty on tv today.

also...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhiv6n8IGso

This ****ing rules.

Tribesmen7

Are you serious?

If ever there was a moment where Kanes character was killed off it was doing that out of character stupid Spin-a-Roonie.

D.Q

well i meant the return part..didnt actually watch the end!! haha!!

v3ttel

I absolutely loved Kane with the mask, he had a mystique around him, and he was one of the reasons I started watching wrestling in the first place. He was the big red machine. Ever since they took off the mask, its been downhill.

I mean, that night Kane lost to Triple H, if Kane can't win a match when the 2 things he should care most about are on the line (not losing his mask, and winning the WWE title), then when would he ever pull it out of the bag? It ruined his credibility. Completely ruined it.

I'd love him to go back to the mask, but the credibility of the gimmick has been tarnished, because we've all seen what he looks like, has already been ruined by years of misuse. The only thing that would resurrect it, would be to have some kind of fire/burning angle to bring back masked Kane. The angle has potential to be good, and the return of a masked Kane has the potential to be great IMO.

The Volt

Rooney10 wrote: »

I absolutely loved Kane with the mask, he had a mystique around him, and he was one of the reasons I started watching wrestling in the first place. He was the big red machine. Ever since they took off the mask, its been downhill.

I mean, that night Kane lost to Triple H, if Kane can't win a match when the 2 things he should care most about are on the line (not losing his mask, and winning the WWE title), then when would he ever pull it out of the bag? It ruined his credibility. Completely ruined it.

I'd love him to go back to the mask, but the credibility of the gimmick has been tarnished, because we've all seen what he looks like, has already been ruined by years of misuse. The only thing that would resurrect it, would be to have some kind of fire/burning angle to bring back masked Kane. The angle has potential to be good, and the return of a masked Kane has the potential to be great IMO.

He lost because of interference from Evolution. At one stage he'd kicked out of a pedigree and everything

Memnoch99

That match should have main evented a PPV not a forgettable RAW (despite it being in MSG). I think wwe have destroyed Kanes monster aura over the years and it would need a big change to make him a credible challenger again. Have him disapeer for a few months then re-appear out of the blue and destroy the current champion (wwe or whc) and then win the belt. After hes won the belt book him like Big Show as ECW champion, a strong heel monster champion.

Tribesmen7

What I find strange about the whole thing is people continue to say that its all been downhill for Kane ever since he lost the mask. Thats not true. Kane had gone down hill about a year before he ever lost the mask, he was treated poorly well before he lost the mask. Also at the time when the mask was on the line there was tons of people that thought losing the mask would be the best thing for Kane because it could be used as a 'new beginning' for the character if they done it right, which they didn't. Losing the mask isn't the reason why the Kane character is no good. If he still had the mask he would still be jobbing.

geeky

Tribesmen7 wrote: »

What I find strange about the whole thing is people continue to say that its all been downhill for Kane ever since he lost the mask. Thats not true. Kane had gone down hill about a year before he ever lost the mask, he was treated poorly well before he lost the mask. Also at the time when the mask was on the line there was tons of people that thought losing the mask would be the best thing for Kane because it could be used as a 'new beginning' for the character if they done it right, which they didn't. Losing the mask isn't the reason why the Kane character is no good. If he still had the mask he would still be jobbing.

In fairness, someone can effectively job for years and stay over if the character is good enough. I think what most people are saying (certainly it's what I'm thinking) is that his mystique and character were harmed a lot by taking the mask off him: he's just not half as scary with a garden-variety mug, yet creative don't allow him to show personality in the same way as other guys. It's a lose-lose situation.

I don't think his currency would be as devalued by his unselfishness over the last couple of years if they'd managed to keep him as this ferocious masked monster that only genuinely good guys overcame. He's been very good to other guys and the company in putting people over - the company just hasn't protected him as a talent quite as much as they could have.

rossie1977

he will always be this guy for me with a mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3vpoB1PTww

he isn't even that big either, i remember first time i met him in new york, i was expecting a 7ft 350ft monster

Tribesmen7

geeky wrote: »

In fairness, someone can effectively job for years and stay over if the character is good enough. I think what most people are saying (certainly it's what I'm thinking) is that his mystique and character were harmed a lot by taking the mask off him: he's just not half as scary with a garden-variety mug, yet creative don't allow him to show personality in the same way as other guys. It's a lose-lose situation.

I don't think his currency would be as devalued by his unselfishness over the last couple of years if they'd managed to keep him as this ferocious masked monster that only genuinely good guys overcame. He's been very good to other guys and the company in putting people over - the company just hasn't protected him as a talent quite as much as they could have.

Yeah I miss the mask too but my point was that losing the mask wasn't the start of his downfall. I do agree the mask added to his mystique. But WWE had dropped the ball with the Kane character long before that. The Kane-a-roonie being one example. Like what were they thinking. Kane should have been treated like the monster that only the very best could beat, that wasn't scared of anything and didn't mind suffering through pain to get what he wanted. A bit like he was when he debuted in 1997. Hes character was really one of the best around at that time.

Riddle101

Glen Jacops dosen't want to win the World Championship. He prefers helping the younger talent. Kane is one of the most selfless guys in WWE, he could have been champion but instead he's doing something I doubt anybody in the Main Event would want to do.

Anyway Kane is one of my favourites. I loved him back in the day. But then he lost his mask, and everything started to go wrong for him there. He started out good after losing the mask because he was destroying everybody. He Tomestoned Linda McMahon, Chokeslammed Eric Biscoff off the stage, beat up Stone Cold Steve Austin and electrecuted Shane McMahon's testicles. It wasn't until after Wresltmania 20 that he went down hill and got caught in some stupid storylines, such as impregnating Lita and fueding with Snitsky. I still like him though.

My favourite moment of Kane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpNDJAzh6MQ

v3ttel

Voltwad wrote: »

He lost because of interference from Evolution. At one stage he'd kicked out of a pedigree and everything

Really? Damn, my recollection of that match is terrible it seems.

At the same time, for all that was on the line, everything to him, its the kind of situations that Cena would "pull from the bag".

The Volt

Cena would 'pull it out of the bag' because the writers love him in a nudey way.

Cactus Colm

I think it says a lot that WWE made Kane the star of See No Evil. (One of the better WWE films efforts).

It annoys me in these Kane threads that there are many people who seem to think that Kane hasn't had a successful career, that because he didn't main event wrestlemania, he nearly belongs among the ranks of Max Moon and Bastion Booger. For a man that has been handicapped by a gimmick that is basically a rip off of the Undertaker he's had one hell of a career.

That's the type of gimmick that should have failed completely, Kane shouldv'e been on the garbage heap with Fake Undertaker and Papa Shango.

Instead he's a nine time tag champ, two time intercontinental champ, hardcore champ, ecw champ, and a former wwe champion. That's a hall of fame type record there.

I also don't buy into Kane losing his mystique when he lost the mask. He just hasn't been given any decent feuds or angles. At least not for long, anytime Kane seems to get some steam behind him creative thinks of some new crap to bring him down again.

KANE FOR THE HALL OF FAME!

Tribesmen7

It annoys me in these Kane threads that there are many people who seem to think that Kane hasn't had a successful career, that because he didn't main event wrestlemania, he nearly belongs among the ranks of Max Moon and Bastion Booger.

No one is saying that

Instead he's a nine time tag champ, two time intercontinental champ, hardcore champ, ecw champ, and a former wwe champion. That's a hall of fame type record there.

Yes its a great record and he will be inducted into the hall of fame sometime, but thats not really the point.

I also don't buy into Kane losing his mystique when he lost the mask. He just hasn't been given any decent feuds or angles. At least not for long, anytime Kane seems to get some steam behind him creative thinks of some new crap to bring him down again.

This is what I have been saying. Yes the mask was great and and it added a bit to his mystique but its not the reason why hes character has been treated so bad. IMO the gimmick is a huge money maker but everytime it looks like they are going to give him the monster push they stop just when the fans are getting into it. I dont care if he never wins the WWE title its not the point, but they could have done so much more with the gimmick and didnt. The only time the writers seemed to know what to do with the Kane gimmick was from around 1997-01. After that it was all down hill with his Kane-a-nites and kane-a-roonies.

2nd Row Donkey

If the WWe could rebrand he undertaker as the american bad ass for a few years surely they could do something to fresh'in up Kane's gimmick too.

in fact, with films like "the hills have eyes" "SAW" etc, I can't believe they didn't jump on that band wagon and have kane abduct people and sh*t like that.

He'll probably team up with the undertaker again before the year is out and then fued against him - like we haven't seen that a thousand times before.:rolleyes:

2nd Row Donkey

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

If the WWe could rebrand he undertaker as the american bad ass for a few years surely they could do something to fresh'in up Kane's gimmick too.

in fact, with films like "the hills have eyes" "SAW" etc, I can't believe they didn't jump on that band wagon and have kane abduct people and sh*t like that.

He'll probably team up with the undertaker again before the year is out and then fued against him - like we haven't seen that a thousand times before.:rolleyes:

He abducted RVD and Lita on different occassions.


Personally, at the time, I thought the Kaneroonie completely ruined the whole come back. I was actually expecting Kane to lay out Booker and Goldust as well.


However, I do understand why they did it.

The 2002/2003 masked rendition of Kane was rarely every as bitter or vicious as the prior versions. Honestly, I believe they knew that he was going to be unmasking a few months prior to it happening (I believe Jacobs wanted rid of the long hair). For example, when he was tag champ with RVD and stuff, he'd occassionally drop a line like "for the first time in my life, I'm happy" and stuff like that, which I believe, was great, as it was the polar opposite of the post-unmasking Kane.


I think they went wrong by giving Kane a burned face on the night of his unmasking. He should have been either constantly put in make up, or completely fine from the get-go. Inconsistency ruined that.

I liked the unmasked Kane. I thought they were doing really well with him, and thought that they were really just starting to give him that aura of invincibility he needed when they stopped pushing him. From falling into the burning dumpster, getting drove into the truck trailer, the violent ambulance match, etc. and how he just kept coming back from those things the following week was great. Don't get me wrong, it was cheesy at first, but I thought that after they kept doing it, it started to work really well.


I don't think that people would ever have been happy with that story coming to an end though. There was no way they could keep him as unstoppable monster Kane forever. They had to finish it some time, and I think the kind of slow gradual bring down was good and worked well.


It's just unfortunate that his follow up angles were impregnating Lita and getting married to her, in a storyline that he may aswell not have been involved in, because he kept getting overshadowed by Matt Hardy references.


Kane is my favourite wrestler, and I don't mind if he never gets a championship run again. He has said that he is happy to work with the younger guys and help them get over (I still believe he was a lot of help to MVP, though obviously he was hugely benefitted by Benoit and Matt being selfless too).

People like Shawn, Triple H, Undertaker, etc. don't seem to be too bothered about helping others get over. The only time people get over with Triple H is when they're associated with him (Evolution) and beat him because he thought them how to be 'that damn good' (with Jeff Hardy being an example of how he should be putting people over properly) and Undertaker seems to never lose a match, or if he does, he just barely loses it, and always defeats the other wrestler in the end.


Kane seems to understand that he has made a name for himself, people like him, he's still got a slight 'unbeatable' aura about him, and he uses it to help other people climb the WWE ladder. He strikes me as someone who understands how the business should work and how to keep things fresh. The only problem is that there seems to be a lack of people like that in WWE.

Bubs101

My favourite thing Kane has done was inspire a bunch of the best threads on this forum around last year some time about whether he was crap or not. The fact is he was great as the monster heel around 97-99 but now he just takes up space and gets entrance pops. He was never anything special in the ring or on the card and it says alot that none of his truly great moments were in his own matches. He was a very well written character but that's not down to him

finnegan2010

IMO when the mask came off the mystery was over they REALLY screwed it up. Loved the mystery of the big red machine. Loved his outfits now in his pants with a shaved head it sucks. put the wife beater back on and get that mask and wig back asap!