Am i mad to try and do the FE1's without a law degree??

Ashlinggnilsia

Basically from doing a few modules of law in college ive decided i really really like it obviously i don't know a huge amount but i do find it very interesting, I am about to start work placement as the last part of my business admin degree, have two solicitors interested in taking me on just hope they call back monday anyway i figured that;

1. If i found i did still like it after working for a solicitor would i be mad to just do a FE1 prep course and then go for it?

2.Initially i had decided that once the summer was over i was going to do an honours degree in WIT which is legal studies with business if they would take me. Because my degree is only an ordinary degree and I would only have to do one year and that way i could see if i really liked once I had learned more about it, but I am a very impatient person and like to get things done so I was thinking about just doing the next FE1 prep course and then I could apply anyway to WIT (just in case) and try and sit a few exams??

To be honest im not a brainbox by an stretch of the imagination but I believe that if you are really interested in something it will be easier for you to learn because you want to learn about it, but i just don't really no what to do!

All opinions welcomed!

Thanks!

Dan133269

not at all. Loads of people sit the fe1s without having a law degree. If you only have an ordinary degree, level 7, I'm not sure if that entitles you to take the fe1s, I'm not sure but you may need a level 8 degree, you could check it out on the law society's website www.lawsociety.ie

Can I ask where you got a placement in a solicitor's firm? as in which city? I have a law degree, doing masters and have all 8 fe1s and can't get any experience in a solicitor's firm to save my life. Most of them won't even reply to me

All the best in taking the exams anyway.

Ashlinggnilsia

Tipperary but you see my placement is like admin work so Im not sure if they would take you there seems to be a lot of people in your situation.

The best advice i can give is do not send letters or cvs ring them, i handed out cvs for placement in Tipp and applied for jobs in Kilkenny, and Waterford too....My advice would be go onto the eircom website or get out the golden pages make a list of all the solicitors in your area and around like i applied to solicitors in clonmel, carrick, waterford, dungarvan, kilkenny etc its only when you ring them you put them on the spot and the give you an answer so your not waiting for days going will they reply wont they you will know straight away sending out cvs did me no favours. And if a place says we will call you back or even if they don't find their website get an e-mail address and e-mail and say that your not sure if they are interested or not but if they are here is your cv for their attention you never no if you don't try.

Ashlinggnilsia

oh and look at it like this.... if your search online on the job sites look at the legal jobs, even if they are not looking for someone in your position on the ad i would look at it like this if they can afford to hire someone then their is a chance they can afford to take you on....yano?

Ashlinggnilsia

Also does anybody know when the next griffith college prep course will be run i was looking on the website but all I can find is the one thats ending in feb and started a few months ago not about the next one? Any ideas? Law soc website down, was wondering do you have to have an honours degree or would an ordinary degree be sufficient?

guerito

Dan133269 wrote: »

Can I ask where you got a placement in a solicitor's firm? as in which city? I have a law degree, doing masters and have all 8 fe1s and can't get any experience in a solicitor's firm to save my life. Most of them won't even reply to me

OP, sorry to drag this thread off-topic. @Dan133269: Have you tried applying for an in-house position? If you can show an interest in a particular industry or business they're often willing to give you experience. And you'd be surprised how often companies have projects that require an extra pair of hands. As long as it's under the aegis of their legal department, it's relevant experience.

dats_right

OP, please don't think I'm sort of academic snob, but an ordinary degree (level 7) was until a couple of years ago called a National Diploma i.e a level 7 award. Under the National Framework of Qualifications a National Diploma became an Ordinary Degree.

The Law Society's requirement for candidates sitting the FE-1's to possess a university or HETAC degree pre-dated this change i.e when what was then merely a degree meant what is now termed an honours degree or level 8 award. My guess is that the Law Society have not lowered the entry threshold to allow ordinary degrees/national diploma satisfy their requirements, although I must admit I don't know this for sure. However, it was always possible for people who didn't satisfy this requirement to sit the preliminary exam, after which you can progress to sitting the fe-1's.

You won't want to hear this but it is the brutally honest truth; with just a level 7 ordinary degree behind you, you will probably struggle in the marketplace to obtain a traineeship as virtually all of your competition will possess at least an honours degree and a substantial proportion will also have post graduate qualifications too. I am not saying that you face an impossible task, but in my opinion, the only way for you to give yourself a realistic chance of leveliing the playing field in obtaining a traineeship is by: a) doing the 1 year in WIT and getting an honours law degree. Not only will this improve your cv it will prepare you better for the fe-1's. [quickest option]
b) obtaining significant legal secretarial, progressing to legal exec type experience pre traineeship. Really the only solicitors I know who do not possess a degree(i.e honours degree) either qualified 30 years ago or worked for a substantial period of time as legal secretary/exec, usualyy ILEX qualified too and gained valuable experience in that way before qualifying.

I suppose what I am saying to you is that, at the moment, you may be better served focussing on improving your qualifications and/or work experience. Because in reality I fear that in order to give yourself a reasonable chance of succeeding you need at least one or the other and preferably both. But where you don't really have either you are making it substantially harder for yourself to succedd then it need or ought to be. Okay, other may well post and say they know this person or that who is an trainee/solicitor/partner in some big firm or other and they don't have a honours degree and yes there are some people like that, but let's be realistic; these people are very much the exception rather than the rule and I would imagine that even these people would admit that it would have made life easier just to possess the qualifications.

Ashlinggnilsia

thanks, you have given me alot to think about, however even if i do the 1 yr in WIT and get the honours degree if what your saying is true then it still will not be enough because it is not a university but and IT.

I find it to be very frustrating because if this is all correct the fact that only a university degree is acceptable In my own opinion is a bit rubbish. I know there are many people out there who know when they leave 6th year exactly what they are going to do but most do not, I thought I would love my course and everything about it and do that job for the rest of my life I never thought for one second I would have any interest in law but from doing a few modules of it in college i have come to find i love it, even worse is the fact that i would have had the points to do it in the first place. And I don't even know if WIT will accept me as the Honours degree is Legal Studies with Business which i have to choose as the requirments for entry are legal studies ordinary degree, legal studies in International trade ordinary degree or equivalent and I am just hoping seeing as the course is split business and law that they would all be coming from the law background and I from the business and hoping they would let me in after that I do not know.

IT's are becoming more popular in recent years and I do believe it to be unfair not to accept honours degrees from IT's. Its annoying anyway because yes the prelim is there but I wouldnt feel ready enough to apply to that this year as those exams are the first and second of march which i only found out yesterday so i wouldnt be able to apply to it this year so by 2011 when march comes around i might aswell just do the add on which will give me the honours degree but even then its not a university degree so I would still have to do it or spend another year in college doing a masters or something in a university. For most people they wouldn't mind and would love to spend another year in college but I hate the thought I want to get out there and start doing things, this is just getting so frustrating :(:(

dats_right

Ashlinggnilsia wrote: »

thanks, you have given me alot to think about, however even if i do the 1 yr in WIT and get the honours degree if what your saying is true then it still will not be enough because it is not a university but and IT.

Dom't panic there is no discrimination like that. Anyway, I think I said "university or HETAC degree" in my other post. I'm sure you know that Intitute of Technologies do not have the power to confer their own awards/degree, as this power rests with HETAC. Which means that graduates from I.T.'s are conferred by HETAC and not the institution they attended. In any event, there is no discrimination on the basis that your honours degree was obtained after studying at an I.T., because HETAC awards are, as already pointed out, recognised by the Law Society.

law_lady

OP, I definitely don't think you'd be mad to do the FE1s without a law degree, as the prep courses are quite comprehensive from what I've heard, and event those of us with law degrees have not touched certain subjects since first year, so we're not that far ahead at all! Best of luck with it.

Sorry to hog your thread a little, but I am considering sitting my first 4 FE1s in March, but would only be starting my study now. I just obtained my apprenticeship for May 2011 and am currently in the second semester of an LLM. I only have a few hours a week, and my work load is unlikely to be heavy until April.

I could live with only passing 3 out of the 4, it would just be great to be able to go for the other 5 in October and potentially have them out of the way with a few months of freedom before I start into my contract. But is it just impossible to cover that amount of material in just 2 months? Am I being totally unrealistic? All opinions gratefully received! Thanks in advance!

Arsenal1986

law_lady wrote: »

OP, I definitely don't think you'd be mad to do the FE1s without a law degree, as the prep courses are quite comprehensive from what I've heard, and event those of us with law degrees have not touched certain subjects since first year, so we're not that far ahead at all! Best of luck with it.

Sorry to hog your thread a little, but I am considering sitting my first 4 FE1s in March, but would only be starting my study now. I just obtained my apprenticeship for May 2011 and am currently in the second semester of an LLM. I only have a few hours a week, and my work load is unlikely to be heavy until April.

I could live with only passing 3 out of the 4, it would just be great to be able to go for the other 5 in October and potentially have them out of the way with a few months of freedom before I start into my contract. But is it just impossible to cover that amount of material in just 2 months? Am I being totally unrealistic? All opinions gratefully received! Thanks in advance!

Cartianly it is possible to do them at this stage, just make sure you pick the smallest/easiest ones - the consensu would be equity, criminal, property, contract are the 4 easier ones.

Stay away from EU and constitutional at first as they are huge. I studied for 2 months an got all 4 fine, I know of ppl getting all 8 with 8 weeks study. Obviously you'll need to be doing an awful lot between now and then. I have alot of essays, notes on email if you want em? just PM me your e mail address if you want em!

Ashlinggnilsia

Ya thanks for that its just all a bit confusing, im sure its fine for most people because they will have an honours degree and will have it from a university so they don't think any more about it. I dont know what I will do at this stage to be honest. If it has to be a level 8 than i have no choice but to stay in college another year but if an ordinary degree was enough I think i would probably sit the next prep course and then do 4 before xmas and another 4 after. Who knows though, I e-mailed them and asked them but they didnt get back to me! Thanks for all your help though!

Arsenal1986

On the whole level 8 thing, I think that a level 7 one is fine because I know of 2 ppl in my class who got pass degrees/3rd class honours and did the FE-1s in the last year. I think 3rd class honours are a level 7 qualification arnt they?

Ashlinggnilsia

Arsenal1986 wrote: »

On the whole level 8 thing, I think that a level 7 one is fine because I know of 2 ppl in my class who got pass degrees/3rd class honours and did the FE-1s in the last year. I think 3rd class honours are a level 7 qualification arnt they?

i think i remember someone saying something about that 2 me last week actually, must say that is fair lousy! I think at this stage because there seems to be alot of uncertainty around this question I will just hope they e-mail be back and say its fine! Other than that I don't know if I will take it as truth as most people seem to be fairly unsure about it! And i'll just excite myself for nothing

dats_right

I think people are missing the point, the issue of whether the OP can sit the FE-1's is only one aspect of it. And whilst I doubt whether a level 7 ordinary degree will satisfy the Law Society requirements, the fact remains that it is easy overcome that difficulty, as it is really only a matter of passing the preliminary exam anyway. In any event, as far as I know the distinction between level 7 and level 8 awards is decided on the basis of modules/credits studied rather than grades per se, so that a 1:1 level 7 still ranks below a 3rd level 8.

Anyway, I think people should be realistic and offer realistic advice rather than of the theoretical variety. Really anybody who doesn't possess, at least, an honours degree (in any subject) and/or legal work experience will find it next to impossible to actually get a traineeship; and afterall that's what it is all about. Not much point passing 8 fe-1's if you cannot get a job afterwards! So why would one go to all of the effort of passing the fe-1's when the reality is that they are at a very significant disadvantage? Owing to their qualifications being below what most others possess and they don't even have the benefit of significant work experience to compensate for that.

I honestly don't think it is always a simple matter of advising people to go straight to do the fe-1's, sometimes people would undoubtedly be better served spending the time obtaining better qualifications or work experience which will serve them well when seeking a traineeship.

Ashlinggnilsia

Thanks again, I am hoping to secure my work placement (the last part of my course) with a solicitor with the hopes of building a good relationship and then hopefully that person would take me on again for a the training if i decide to do that. Either way if I did the FE1s after the ones coming up or not I will still be applying to WIT so I might aswel just do that and wait another year for the FE1s. I'm just very impatient! :rolleyes: Who knows I could do my placement for the solicitor see first hand the work they do and hate it (hopefully not though) cos i havn't a clue what i'll do with my life then .

Thanks to ye all for all your help!