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N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    Either that or he's moved on to a more gullible audience.

    Here's a link to a video which is linked on the Save Newgrange website, one of only 10 links on the whole site, so it would be reasonable to conclude it's rated fairly highly.

    Ooops, just went in to link it and it's "been removed by user".

    It was by the Indefatigible Wombat (?) and it was very interesting. It was an appeal by IW against the destruction of Newgrange. Apparently the road that goes around Newgrange was a bit dangerous, there've been "some deaths, but not too many" and so they decided to put a road through it instead. The bigwigs were trying to push through a law to enable them to put this road through and thereby destroy this site (which from the video, it sounded like he'd never heard of before). Linked on SN since February, as far as I recall. Suddenly removed as soon as it was spotted and linked onto Save Newgrange The Facts as an example of the rubbish that's being spouted out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    How similar is the fight about Slane going to be compared to the fight over the A303 at Stonehenge in the UK? Where the whole thing just gets more and more expensive and bitter before getting completely scrapped?


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    Well hopefully not, because this is about a much-needed bypass to save lives rather than aesthetic issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Aesthetic issues? The A303 at Stonehenge is just about the worst bottleneck in the UK. It needs solving way more than Slane does to take the traffic away from the stones. A load of hippies and environmentalists fought the project into the ground and it got scrapped. Slane needs to be bypassed though before the hippies get on board (they'll be looking for something to do now that the M3 is built).

    But it needs an S2 bypass, not a 2+2. Eventually the N2 needs to be detrunked and possibly a spur from the M1 used as a replacement route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    Sorry, I don't know a lot about Stonehenge but my understanding was that the existing road was viewed as too close to the monument and detracted from the ambience.

    Slane has nothing to do with being a bottleneck, it isn't in fact a bottleneck and there are rarely hold-ups going through Slane. The issue is one of safety and saving lives.

    I would agree with you though that once the crusties get involved, there's no way of knowing how long things will get held up.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Aesthetic issues? The A303 at Stonehenge is just about the worst bottleneck in the UK. It needs solving way more than Slane does to take the traffic away from the stones. A load of hippies and environmentalists fought the project into the ground and it got scrapped. Slane needs to be bypassed though before the hippies get on board (they'll be looking for something to do now that the M3 is built).

    But it needs an S2 bypass, not a 2+2. Eventually the N2 needs to be detrunked and possibly a spur from the M1 used as a replacement route.
    Visited Stonehenge earlier this year. Bypass very badly needed. The protesters totally shot themselves in the foot by protesting against the new A303. Whole time we were walking around the stones, you could hear engines idling in the traffic jam on the existing A303 nearby. Disgraceful hippies.

    Your comment about the M3 is salient. I've noticed a breed of what I call "crustie tourists" - protesters that move from protest to protest around the country. It's gone now but here used be a site called rage.co.uk (Roads Action Group Envirnmentalism something) and the thing was like a brochure. Lists of protests, local accommodation, contact phone numbers, background to the scheme. Awful, awful stuff. In Ireland in the last 10 years we had N11 Glen of the Downs, then Carrickmines M50, then Tara M3, and now Slane N2.

    I also agree about the detrunking. This madness about making the whole N2 a dual has got to stop. The M50-Ashbourne motorway was way OTT, though I'm glad to note that the Ashbourne-Ardee dual is now gone from the NRA's site. If they dualled the whole thing, trying to get traffic to use a spur from the M1 would never work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    To be honest I don't think detrunking the N2 is going to make any difference to its usage especially if Slane is bypassed.

    I think most people will continue to use the N2 to avoid the M1 toll, especially hauliers who are trying to keep costs under control. I still don't see any reason why the NRA (or which department is responsible) can't have a look at introducing some sort of monthly toll usage plan for hauliers to allow them unlimited usage for a set fee.

    I know some hauliers would still not be happy paying when they can avoid tolls but they might be persuaded especially if there was a "carrot and stick" approach to this problem. So the "carrot" is to introduce a set fee, the "stick" is then to reduce the speed limits on the detrunked roads and line them with mobile cameras to catch people breaking the lower limits.

    I don't want to go off topic here but can I ask has the speed limit on the R639 (the old N8) been reduced the way it has been on the R147 (the old N3)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,498 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Jayuu wrote: »

    I don't want to go off topic here but can I ask has the speed limit on the R639 (the old N8) been reduced the way it has been on the R147 (the old N3)?

    I believe not. Through Laois most of it is still the N77; and Tipp and Cork county councils have no problem slapping 100km/h limits on R roads.

    I think its 80km/h along the bits bypassed by the Fermoy BP (tolled) though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    Jayuu wrote: »
    ...has the speed limit on the R639 (the old N8) been reduced the way it has been on the R147 (the old N3)?
    Completely off topic and maybe you know this already but the old N3 is a dreadful example to use in this context. It runs parallel to the one of the only roads in the country with a minimum toll revenue quota (along with the Shannon Tunnel) and is a WS2 upgraded only about 10 years ago. A 100km/h limit is perfectly acceptable on this road and its downgrading to 80km/h is a disgrace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    etchyed wrote: »
    Completely off topic and maybe you know this already but the old N3 is a dreadful example to use in this context. It runs parallel to the one of the only roads in the country with a minimum toll revenue quota (along with the Shannon Tunnel) and is a WS2 upgraded only about 10 years ago. A 100km/h limit is perfectly acceptable on this road and its downgrading to 80km/h is a disgrace.

    I think its actually a perfect example of what I was trying to prove, namely that simply detrunking a road and putting a lower speed limit on it does absolutely nothing to persuade people to use the alternative.

    The R147 is still widely used by people in order to bypass the M3 tolls. I should know this as I spend a lot of time driving to Kells over the last couple of months and invariably would take it to avoid at least one of the tolls (generally the Dunshaughlin toll on my outbound journey and the Kells toll on my inbound journey). In some cases I would alternate on and off the M3 to avoid both tolls. I would also say that the vast amount of traffic on the R147 (including myself) tended to travel close to the old speed limit especially on the wider, straighter sections of the road.

    Likewise the idea of lower the speed limit on the N2 in isolation is not going to suddenly make people use the M1/M33 corridor. In fact with Slane bypassed it makes the road even more attractive.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Apologies if this is posted elsewhere.
    Slane Bridge to close for repairs

    Part of one of the busiest roads in the country, the N2 through Slane, Co Meath, is to close this afternoon for emergency repairs.

    Subsidence was discovered on the northern approach road to Slane Bridge and Meath County Council said it has no option but to close the entire section to allow for repairs.

    Traffic will instead be diverted through Navan.

    Several thousand vehicles pass through Slane every day. It is expected the closure will be in place for the rest of the week and possibly into the weekend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    More on this from the Bypass Slane Campaign...

    http://www.bypassslane.com/MillHillClosure.html

    ...and more about a support wall gradually collapsing...

    http://www.bypassslane.com/BridgeCollapse.html

    ...and finally, lobbying Fine Gael in relation to the bypass...

    http://www.bypassslane.com/FineGaelMeeting.html


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Slane Bridge is over 300 years old. It should not be carrying ANY modern motor traffic and indeed Slane and its medieval era bridge should have been bypassed decades ago.

    I hope the road at Slane is closed for weeks if not months. I hope they find serious structural defects with the bridge that make it unsafe ever to take motor traffic again.

    Slane needs its new bypass and modern bridge as a matter of urgency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    SUBSIDENCE ON one of the two approach roads to Slane bridge in Co Meath yesterday forced the county council to close a section of the main Dublin to Derry road just south of Slane and divert traffic away from the bridge.

    This led to renewed calls from local residents for the Slane bypass to be progressed so daily traffic crossing the bridge, including many trucks, would be taken out of the village.

    “The environmental impact statement (EIS) on the bypass said the road is unfit for purpose. Anybody in Slane could have told you that without carrying out a technical examination of it,” said Michele Power of the Bypass Slane Campaign yesterday. “This is 21st century traffic that is using an old road and an old bridge, and we are calling on An Bord Pleanála to expedite the bypass process and get traffic out of the village.”

    Road maintenance works have been ongoing on the N2 since last week. It is believed while contractors were digging a trench on Mill Hill they came across evidence of subsidence.

    Mill Hill is the steep hill on the northbound side of the river.

    A spokeswoman for Meath County Council said for health and safety reasons the council could not carry out the emergency repairs using the “stop-go” traffic management system that had been in use for the last week.

    She said the closure would continue for the rest of this week and possibly into the weekend.

    The closure “will inconvenience 10,000 motorists a day and will again put hardship on the long suffering residents and business people of Slane village”, according to Slane-based councillor Wayne Harding.

    He said that because of “the level of subsidence of the road, a complete road closure was needed to carry out the works safely”. The diversion that was in place until at least this weekend “will put huge volumes of traffic on to the N51 Navan road from Slane”.

    Both the council and the National Roads Authority said the problem was unrelated to the partial collapse of a wall at Slane bridge earlier this month. That was due to the impact of the icy weather.

    A spokesman for the NRA said: “The work on the bridge will be done as planned bridge maintenance works and will not require road closure.”

    Meanwhile, the council said the diversions at Slane would see northbound traffic exiting the N2 at Balrath Cross (R153) and head towards Navan before taking the N51 to Slane.

    Southbound traffic would exit the N2 at the centre of Slane village and head to Navan. From there it would take the R153 to Balrath Cross (N2).
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0118/1224287760408.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭tuathal


    Happy New Year to all. As we look forward to the An Bord Pleanala hearings into the fairytale Slane Bypass, we in Save Newgrange have some exciting news for you all, to start out the year in a positive manner.

    The Oireachtas Transport Committee has decided to hold hearings into the proposed new one billion euro Dublin to Derry road - which the Slane bypass forms a small part of. You can read a hyperlinked version of the article on the Save Newgrange site - which also has dozens of other helpful links to credible information, relevant to the proposed road. Remember, one of Ireland's leading transport economists, as well as some leading archaeologists, have condemned this project on both economic and environmental grounds. You won't find anyone of that calibre supporting the Slane bypass on the Slane Bypass web site. The only people there supporting it are Fianna Fail, desperate for a few votes, and their well-paid cronies, desperate for a few pork barrel contracts - compliments of the IMF.

    Welcome for public hearings into plans for Dublin-Derry road

    FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor
    The Irish Times – 14 January 2011

    OPPONENTS OF plans for a new road between Dublin and Derry have welcomed a decision by the Oireachtas transport committee to hold public hearings next month. The proposed route would be Ireland’s longest new road, replacing much of the N2 in the Republic and the A5 in Northern Ireland. It would be part-financed by €500 million which the Government agreed to provide under the 2006 St Andrews Agreement.

    The Oireachtas hearings were requested by Joe Costello TD, Labour’s transport spokesman, after he met a coalition of anti-motorway and pro-heritage groups from both sides of the Border in Leinster House this week. Mr Costello told the delegation that Labour would draft a new national development plan if it entered government and every current infrastructure project would be reviewed, “no matter what stage of planning it is at”.

    While refusing to be drawn on the N2-A5 given divided views on it in his own party, Mr Costello said the €500 million commitment would be the single biggest drawdown on transport spending in the coming years. Public consultation is under way on three sections of the route – the Slane bypass, the Monaghan bypass and the A5 in the North – which are being opposed by Save Newgrange, Don’t Bypass the Bypass and the Alternative A5 Alliance respectively.

    “No cost-benefit analysis has been performed on the proposed road and traffic numbers do not justify building a new road rather than upgrading the existing one,” said Lynne Smyth of the Alternative A5 Alliance. John Dunbar, the group’s chairman, said Sinn Féin and DUP Ministers, as well as those from the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP, along with Taoiseach Brian Cowen, “have been saying quite matter of factly that the A5 is a ‘done deal’ and that is that”. He said Mr Costello’s comments that any new administration in the Republic “would need to look again at taking a half a billion out of the Southern economy at a time of a national economic emergency puts paid to that notion”.

    Save Newgrange spokesman Vincent Salafia said leading archaeologists had made submissions to An Bord Pleanála against the Slane bypass route, arguing that it would be too close to Brú na Bóinne. He said the obvious solution to traffic problems in Slane would be to ban trucks, as agreed by Meath County Council in 2009, which would force them to use the M1.

    Noel Murphy of the Don’t Bypass the Bypass campaign said Economic and Social Research Institute transport economist Dr Edgar Morgenroth had characterised the proposal to build a motorway east of the new Monaghan bypass as “total overkill”.

    noel-dempsey.jpg

    N2 Subsidence

    As for the partial subsidence and closure of the N2 at Slane, it has two direct causes:
    1. Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey, (the 'traitor') the NRA and Meath County Manager, Tom Dowling, refused to implement the HGV ban that was voted for, unanimously, by Meath County Council in 2009, which has allowed 1,400 HGVs a day to wear down the road, and endanger the lives of motorists and residents.

    2. 85% of the primary roads are now substandard, because the NRA spent all of our money building motorways, like the M3, that didn't have the traffic numbers to support them, over the last ten years.

    It is appalling to see so-called 'Slane Residents' on here clamouring for a bypass, opposing the very HGV ban the majority of real residents clamoured for for the last 20 years. Even if the Slane bypass does go ahead, it will be years before it is completed, and the fact that they are willing to sit back and let this health and safety hazard threaten the lives of residents and their children shows that there is another agenda entirely at play here. But that's nothing new with Fianna Fail.

    The Irish Times article today has Michelle Power attempting to paraphrase the EIS, in support of the bypass. Here is an actual quote from the EIS:

    “Toll avoidance is obviously a motivation for some traffic to divert from the M1 to the N2 via Slane, especially for trucks.”

    Two billion euros of public money has already been spent bypassing Slane, with the M1 just to the east, and the M3 just to the west. Yet, the Minister, County Manager and the NRA are happy to sit back and let the toll-dodgers plough through Slane, and rob the taxpayer at the same time - just to artificially inflate traffic numbers for the EIS - and basically con An Bord Pleanala into approving a dual carriageway that is not needed.

    Slane bypass proponent facing criminal charges for assault

    killian.jpg

    Cllr. Nick Killian (right), with Taoiseach Brian Cowen and other Fianna Fail cronies in Slane, in May 2009 - just before the NRA decision to shelve the bypass was magically reversed.

    Bring on the election!

    SNIP [/MOD]


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Firstly, I assume the above poster is not calling someone a criminal while a court of this country has yet to decide a verdict??

    As for the bridge, the bridge is patently unfit for purpose for bloody pedestrians let alone trucks and as the bridge is of heritage value, a bypass is the only way to deal with it.

    I live very near the Louth/Meath border in the area and I can think of no person who wants the proposed bypass to be quashed. Some people do want just a HGV ban but no one would oppose the construction of a safe and proper bridge near the village. There are quite a lot of people who rely on that route even if they do not live within the confines of the small village. They will be impacted by any such decisions and as such will have strong views on it too. Particularly the agricultural producers of the region, as the construction of motorways is of no relevance to those who depend on tractor and trailer to transport produce etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭tuathal


    Firstly, I assume the above poster is not calling someone a criminal while a court of this country has yet to decide a verdict??

    I didn't call him a "criminal". I called him "scum", for the way he has behaved towards members of the public, on this and other occasions, and I will stand over that no matter what the outcome of the trial. I added a still above from the youtube video that used to be on the net, but was taken down.
    As for the bridge, the bridge is patently unfit for purpose for bloody pedestrians let alone trucks and as the bridge is of heritage value, a bypass is the only way to deal with it.

    So build a new bridge, by all means.
    I live very near the Louth/Meath border in the area and I can think of no person who wants the proposed bypass to be quashed. Some people do want just a HGV ban but no one would oppose the construction of a safe and proper bridge near the village. There are quite a lot of people who rely on that route even if they do not live within the confines of the small village. They will be impacted by any such decisions and as such will have strong views on it too. Particularly the agricultural producers of the region, as the construction of motorways is of no relevance to those who depend on tractor and trailer to transport produce etc.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I am sure many of theirs are valid. That's why we have a legal process - assuming the money is there to pay for the road - which it isn't. If the process goes ahead, all we want is that the process is followed correctly, as we are confident it can lead to only one conclusion. But today, we have the Slane Bypass campaign calling on An Bord Pleanala to speed up the process, for their self interest, and to the detriment of others interests - ie the people who are being asked to pay for this - or who have a valid interest in the economy, environment and heritage of Ireland.

    Incidentally, the A5 end of the Dublin to Derry road is being vehemently opposed by farmers there - who say it is a sacrilege to have good farmland destroyed for the sake of a political road that is not needed.

    See http://www.alternativea5alliance.com/


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    I wonder, Tuathal, if I was against the bypass, would I be a "real" Slane resident then? I'm assuming at least that you're talking about me, since you've accused me elsewhere on this board of not being a real Slane resident. Are the only "real" Slane residents the ones that agree with you?

    But of course you're right. The people who actually live in Slane are against the bypass. Of course. Those people who drive over that horrendously dangerous bridge, the people who risk their lives daily to get to work/school/shops, they don't want a bypass. Not at all. :rolleyes:

    I note your complaint about the "paraphrasing" of the EIS. Perhaps a direct quote might suit you better.

    "The purpose of the proposed N2 Slane Bypass is to overcome major road safety problems on the N2 route that passes through Slane Village. It is required to overcome the inadequacies of the existing road network through provision of a local bypass of the village of Slane, where the existing road layout on the N2 is hazardous for traffic".

    Sounds like "unfit for purpose" to me, but hey, I'm from Azerbaijan, what would I know? :D
    tuathal wrote: »
    Happy New Year to all. As we look forward to the An Bord Pleanala hearings into the fairytale Slane Bypass, we in Save Newgrange have some exciting news for you all, to start out the year in a positive manner.

    Thanks for clarifying the situation, btw, since you previously refused to admit to being a SN member (or administrator, or indeed, founder).

    Just one little question - if, as presumably (and hopefully) will happen, FF get decimated at the next election and FG or Labour, or a combination, get in power, will those who support the bypass then be the FG-led bypass campaign? Or do you expect the campaign to just wither away and die? And if it doesn't, will you then admit that you were wrong about it being FF led?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Whoa just a minute tuathal!

    Before I start, I want to make clear that the moderators on this forum have ZERO problem with representatives from your organisation posting here. We welcome all viewpoints here, so long as they are presented in a suitable fashion - i.e. one that generates rational, calm discussion, devoid of antagonism, while remaining on topic and being open to all points of view. I just want to make that crystal clear from the outset.

    Now, two points:

    First, you may NOT post here if you insist on labelling, suggesting or snidely inferring that all proponents of the bypass are affiliated with Fianna Fáil. Now let me be very clear on this: if you suggest or intimate that here again, you will be banned. It is the worst sort of discussion and it will not be tolerated.

    Second, a large part of your post is tabloidesque. I am referring specifically to the issue you raised regarding Nick Killian. This has nothing to do with the Slane Bypass, absolutely nothing, and I'll brook no contradiction on that. It is irrelevant to this thread and I do not know why you posted it. I do know one thing though - if you veer wildly off topic again, you will be banned.

    Please post calmly and do not cast aspersions on other posters here, directly or indirectly. I have infracted you for your post, because it contravenes the 'baiting' rule in the charter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Agree with the above from Tremelo. Lets just say my support for the Slane Bypass is inversely proportional to my love of FF!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,498 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    tuathal wrote: »
    So build a new bridge, by all means.

    Where? There's nowhere to build one anywhere near the existing one. Also, it wouldn't deal with the extreme safety issues of vehicles dealing with the hills.

    The only way to build a new bridge is to bypass Slane.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    MYOB wrote: »
    Where? There's nowhere to build one anywhere near the existing one. Also, it wouldn't deal with the extreme safety issues of vehicles dealing with the hills.

    The only way to build a new bridge is to bypass Slane.

    That's the problem with objectors to infrastructure projects in this country. They come up with these off the cuff suggestions without actually thinking of whether they are feasible or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    Oh believe me, JP, you have no idea.

    So far some of the ideas mooted on the Save Newgrange forum have included:

    a) An elevated electric light rail system. Just for Slane.
    b) Digging up Slane village to put the traffic underneath which, according to the person making the suggestion, could be done for much less than the cost of building the bypass. I think his estimate was €100,000, I have the post somewhere. This was pre-building bust, by the way.
    c) An overpass where the traffic can go over Slane. I'm unsure what bit of Slane exactly it would go over, or how, but we won't let that stop us.
    d) A different bridge. Somewhere else. (Ignoring the fact that any other bridge would probably end up closer to Newgrange than the existing one).

    As another poster on another site said, road safety in Slane is a real problem, which needs real solutions, now, not more "pie-in-the-sky" and "if only" solutions. Concrete solutions, fully implementable, now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,498 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Also, this thread reminded me of how I've been accused of being both an FF and a Green member on this subforum alone. Interesting seeing as I'm a paid up member of another party entirely...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    De-trunking the N2 completely and removing 'M' status from the M2 should be the first step.

    Really, the M2 (oh look a motorway) funnelling traffic into Slane is intolerable and the Ashbourne bypass should never have become a motorway for that reason.

    That does mean improving connections to the other side of Slane would be required (say from the M1 and M3 though the logistics would be bad).

    In a sense, Slane is the closest we have to the UKs A303 at Stonehenge; although the traffic jams arent as bad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,498 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The A303 at Stonehenge doesn't come close in danger stakes, though.

    Expecting traffic to go down a steep hill and navigate 90 degree bends irrespective of the one way system is ridiculous. Even if the N2 was detrunked, Slane needs a second bridge - and theres nowhere to put one in the town. Many towns on R roads eventually need bypassing (Clane, Ratoath, Lusk, Graiugenamanagh come to mind as recently done ones).


  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Slane Resident


    The deaths at Slane bridge were happening long, long before the N2 at Ashbourne was improved. The bridge simply isn't suitable for the type of traffic that now traverses it, it was designed for horse traffic. It's just completely unsuitable for large volumes of HGV traffic.

    Which makes this advertising campaign extremely ironic:

    http://www.dixontransport.com/gallery.html

    I can't remember how to insert a picture, maybe somebody else will be able to. If you scroll down though, you'll see a fleet of Dixon HGVs travelling through Slane and across the bridge, and it's basically a step-by-step illustration of just how unsuitable the road is for HGV traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    MYOB wrote: »
    Many towns on R roads eventually need bypassing (Clane, Ratoath, Lusk, Graiugenamanagh come to mind as recently done ones).

    Got one about 3 year ago ;). Very lucky indeed to get one as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Got one about 3 year ago ;). Very lucky indeed to get one as well.

    Clane is also bypassed (albeit terribly).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,498 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    lads, that was a list of tiwns on R roads that HAVE been bypassed not ones that need it...


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