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N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]



  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy

    Just sent this email to Frank McDonald.

    Its to the west of the western edge!

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann

    That's very specious coming from Frank. As a man who makes his living through words he should know that his formulation is quite ambiguous and suggests that the road will be within 500m of one of the extant monuments.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek

    The cynic inside me says that they purposefully picked a stupid route like this to cause legal problems and delay the project. They dont want to bypass Slane as it would be too tempting to bypass the M1 toll.

    It must be a huge cynic inside you so - because that is a ridiculously cynical thing to say.

  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Roryhy

    New word for the day-


    speaker.gif /ˈspithinsp.pngʃəs/ dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif Show Spelled Pronunciation [spee-shuhthinsp.pngs] dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif Show IPA –adjective 1. apparently good or right though lacking real merit; superficially pleasing or plausible: specious arguments. 2. pleasing to the eye but deceptive. 3. Obsolete. pleasing to the eye; fair.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud

    Just sent this email to Frank McDonald.

    Good on you mate! :)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud

    Frank McDonald, all I can say as a Meathman is:

    Stay out of Meath!

    Maybe Dublin isn't doing things your way (M50 Upgrade, N4 Upgrade, N7 Upgrade, DPT, R136 etc), and if you think Meath will succumb to you fanatical thinking instead, think again - we will build whatever road we want and no, we're not knocking down Tara, Newgrange or any other major heritage site for that matter - Meath is a big county you know - plenty of room for motorways - and spaghettis for that matter!

    In short, don't tempt us! :mad:

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann

    A couple of good facebook groups about this bypass have been set up.

    And a good pro-bypass site here:

    I think the BANANAs will make their stand here now. They haven't learned the lessons from Tara, and Salafia will be to the fore once more. Embittered by his defeat in Tara, they will probably be even more determined to stop this road from being built.

    Question though: When is it likely to go to construction? The longer it takes, the more time Salafia and Co. will have to mobilise against the Slane Bypass. I think, though, that they won't receive much support from the public at all - not with the number of fatalities there.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762

    It isnt one of the PPPs so is on the back burner until well past 2015.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann

    Maybe the bananas will grow up in the meantime so.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SlaneMan

    Frank Mcdonald is very clever. He uses fancy language to makes this sound like the end of the world.

    Frank says: “The National Roads Authority is bent on pursuing a plan that would visually compromise the setting of Newgrange, Knowth and Dowth”

    Note the use of the word ‘setting’….

    The relevant extracts from the EIS are as follows:

    “…combined with mitigation of obtrusive elements and screening of the main road corridor the development would not detract from the pastoral image of the landscape from this ancient viewpoint”

    “Subject to mitigation over time of obtrusive elements and screening of the main road corridor the bridge itself would not detract from the timeless, pastoral landscape enjoyed from this ancient viewpoint”

    “The new road corridor to the south of the river would be barely perceptible as it ran along the fringes of Cullen Hill from the N2 between the landmarks of Newgrange and Slane Hill. The river crossing would not be visible from this viewpoint. Appropriate screen and woodland planting would ensure, at this distance, its complete integration in the landscape”

    Given that Knowth is the closest I have uploaded the pictures from the EIS that show the existing view from Knowth and a computer generate view after the bypass is in place. There is a bridge there but you have to hunt for it! This not that surprising as it is 1 mile and half away. Pictures can be seen here!/photo.php?pid=58848&op=1&o=user&view=user&subj=286896560291&aid=-1&oid=286896560291&id=100000673604505

    Note also the existing very busy N51 can also be seen passing 0.7 miles from Knowth and this has not caused a problem.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SlaneMan

    This is a link to the ‘before’ and ‘after’ Newgrange pictures. I have looked at the ‘after ‘picture for a while and I can’t see any difference. Note also that to take this picture you need to illegally stand on top of the mound at Newgrange ;)
    But these are just minor technical issues, aren’t they? Nothing to stop a good scare story...!/photo.php?pid=35011&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=286896560291&id=100000673604505
    If the link does not work you can see this picture and lot of other relvant factual information at 'Save Newgrange - The Facts' on Facebook.
    BTW, Apologies for the giant font in the last post.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd

    there is a difference
    the bridge is visible but the photo resolution is quite bad so hard to make out.
    To a human eye the bridge would be much more obvious than you would see on a photo, even if the photo were to be of a decent resolution.

    Slightly aside, it is interesting to not that the facebook group with 700 supporters for a Slane by-pass wants as an immediate measure a BAN on trucks through slane! Make them go the 2 miles from Ardee to the M1.
    I'd nearly sign up on their group for that.

    When the trucks are gone, Slane would be a much more pleasant and safe place and maybe the need for a bypass will seem less pressing.
    (Conversly, if the trucks remain, and more people get killed/ injuired, the alleged need for a bypass appears greater)

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SlaneMan

    The existing N51 can be seen and is 0.7 miles from Knowth and the new bridge will be twice as far away. Nobody has complained about the N51. The EISs assessment that the bridge will not detract from the view seems pretty rational.

    The proposed HGV ban has already been look into and is not practical. See the following for details,39252,en.doc

    “Eugene Cummins then explained that a series of interventions would be implemented to improve safety in the village. He emphasised that the permanent solution to Slane’s problems was the bypass. He advised that because the revised bypass route was shorter there would be less land needed and the delivery process could be speeded up. He further advised that banning HGV’s was not a viable option and that any diversions put in place would have serious impacts on residents along, and users of, the alternative routes thus transferring safety problems to other parts of the road network. He confirmed that legal advice obtained confirmed that Meath County Council and the NRA had a statutory requirement to consider the needs of all road users.

    Even if a non local HGV ban was somehow put in place, we will still would local HGVs and a huge volume of cars passing over very steep hills and 90 degree turns onto a single lane 600 year old bridge on the main artery between Dublin and Derry. Just this past Monday, we had a four car (ie no trucks) crash on the hill leading the bridge. These type of accidents just don’t get the publicity that that major 9 car/truck pile up did last March.

    What new found supporters of the HGV ban don’t seem to understand is that the HGV ban is seen as a temporary effort to mitigate the problems until the real solution (ie the bypass) is but in place. Not alone will it the bypass remove all the N/S trucks and cars it will also allow local and E/W trucks to access the N2 via the relatively flat Drogheda road instead of driving down the very steep and dangerous road to the existing bridge.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd

    The meath chronicle also has a good article on the dangers of the current situation.
    It really brings across the point that something needs to be done in some way or other.
    20 people have already died and it is 100% certain that more will follow.

    Theres also some vigourous debate on the comment section below the article, also including submissions from honorary meathman Vincent Salafia!!
    Last March, a nine-vehicle collision in the centre of the village left four people injured. Gardai claimed it was a miracle nobody had been killed in the accident which involved several families returning from the school run. At least six cars were written off and two lorries badly damaged.

    John Ryle, who lives close to Slane Bridge, said he had seen some horrific sights over the years. "I remember the late Fr Dooley being paddled out in an inflatable dinghy to give the last rites to a truck driver who lay dying in his truck in the Boyne," he said.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916

    Roryhy wrote: »
    Its to the west of the western edge!

    D'oh! Still you get the point...

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek

    It isnt one of the PPPs so is on the back burner until well past 2015.
    It will no doubt start next year as it is a small scheme and can be funded from the regular budget.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762

    What regular budget? :P

    The regular budget only exists because the contracts for the M6/7/8/9 were signed. Thats going to be eviscertated in the next budget once these are all done and any money put into Metro North and Dart Underground preparatory works. Some money might go into CPOs but I really, really doubt that anything will go into building. The Longford bypass is probably the most likely as its the smallest, maybe Carrigtwohill to Midleton as thats the next smallest. Anything else wont be started.

    PPPs are the only way to go I reckon at the moment. Slane will be put on the back burner as its the route for the M1 toll dodgers and with FF in the pocket of the toll companies a handshake will be made not to build Slane.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud

    PPPs are the only way to go I reckon at the moment. Slane will be put on the back burner as its the route for the M1 toll dodgers and with FF in the pocket of the toll companies a handshake will be made not to build Slane.


    ...if the very thing you're saying about undermining toll dodgers come to fruition, then it can be challenged (AFAIK) under EU law which dictates that there must be a reasonable alternative route to a toll road. For the M1 Toll, that would be the N2 via Slane or the R132 via Drogheda and Julianstown, of which the latter (with 20k CPUs) is also calling for a bypass. Slane itself is dangerous (and therefore not a reasonable alternative) and the locals seem prepared to take no more - they have a powerful lobby to get the bypass built - power to them as far as I'm concerned, and to hell with this nonsense relating to Newgrange. Julianstown is also becoming problematic trafficwise.

    On a general note... a Meathman, I'm very proud of Newgrange - a place to which I've being living quite near for 34 years. It is there to stay and will never be destroyed - neither will Tara etc. IMO however, we must preserve the state's national monuments for ourselves rather than for foreign interests who would like to visit such places without seeing sight nor light of us Irish and our daily lives - how dare they! :mad:

    Oh yes, some world heritage spokesman was talking about the way that the M1 Boyne Bridge could be seen from Newgrange and how it (with its illumination and aircraft light) spoiled the experience, and that the Slane Bypass will do more damage - so is he suggesting that we Irish have no right to live our lives? - well let me get things straight here: Newgrange belongs to the Irish people and is not the reserve of any fanatical tourist who likes to think of Ireland as some pixie land with leprechauns, country lanes and thatched cottages - we will build roads where we want and when we want, and if any foreign tourist doesn't like it, then they should PFO!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762

    Fair play to the people of Slane for fighting for the bypass (rather than against, as usually happens) but unfortunately we've seen exactly how successful they've been so far.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud

    Fair play to the people of Slane for fighting for the bypass (rather than against, as usually happens) but unfortunately we've seen exactly how successful they've been so far.

    Well election time is not too far away - just over 2 years left for the Government now, and by a tread. I'm sure the FF TDs for Meath East will want to see the project go ahead in 2011 - for their sake!


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek

    Fair play to the people of Slane for fighting for the bypass (rather than against, as usually happens) but unfortunately we've seen exactly how successful they've been so far.
    True - but now route selection etc. is taking place and real progress is finally happening.

    The road will start next year and will be paid for out of the regular budget, along with some other small schemes. The large schemes will use the PPP mechanism.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann

    An interesting piece from Edgar Morgenroth last March:
    A number of stories on roads funding have been in the media over the last few weeks.

    Firstly, Frank McDonald in a piece in the Irish Times had a go at the motorway building programme of the NRA. In particular he criticises the plans for the Slane bypass (N2 Dublin to Derry). That story was also picked up in Today FM’s Last Word (Matt Cooper) last Thursday.

    The rationale for the bypass project involving a new bridge over the river Boyne is straightforward. Currently a significant volume of traffic of which about a quarter is HGVs (some 1600 per day) negotiate the steep valley on both sides of the river which is crossed via a narrow bridge. The nature of the roads has been blamed for a number of serious accidents involving HGVs, and hence the bypass is to be built to reduce accidents.

    But why are there so many HGVs on a road connecting Ashbourne (population 6500) with Ardee (population 4000)? The answer is simple once on considers that the N2 runs almost parallel to the tolled M1, which is both quicker and safer. In other words the HGVs are on the N2 to avoid the toll, and now the tax payer is going to help them avoid the toll by building a new expensive bridge and dual carriageway. The simple, cheap and obvious solution to the problem of HGVs going through Slane is to ban them from doing so, as I argued in May 2009. This would also avoid all the hassle of forcing a major construction project through an area rich in archaeological sites and historic significance. I wonder is this a case for the Comptroller and Auditor General?

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann

    New round of public consultations ordered for proposed Slane bypass

    A NEW round of public consultations on controversial plans for a dual-carriageway bypass of Slane, Co Meath, has been ordered by An Bord Pleanála, with October 15th set as the closing date.

    A public notice advertising the new round of consultations was published recently in national newspapers.

    The original consultation period closed on February 25th last.

    An Bord Pleanála had sought additional information from Meath County Council on the road scheme, including whether an alternative route running to the west of Slane had been examined.

    The current proposal, which is being advanced on behalf of the National Roads Authority (NRA), would run to the east of Slane, some 500 metres from the boundary of Brú na Bóinne World Heritage Site.

    The appeals board also sought alternative designs for a new bridge over the river Boyne, noting that the cable-stayed bridge originally proposed would be visible from the World Heritage Site.

    It also wanted the council to produce more detailed archaeological and geophysical reports on investigations of 44 archaeological sites that would be affected by the original scheme.

    The information was sought “in order to clarify certain points in the environmental impact statement [EIS] and assist the board’s assessment of the likely effects on the environment” of the road.

    This followed complaints to An Bord Pleanála by the Save Newgrange group, former attorney general John Rogers SC and leading archaeologist Prof George Eogan that the EIS was flawed.

    Save Newgrange spokesman Vincent Salafia said: “We will be waging an international campaign over the next month, particularly in Northern Ireland, to get as many objections as possible filed with An Bord Pleanála.”

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011

    "We will be waging an international campaign over the next month, particularly in Northern Ireland,"

    Are objections from NI treated better, or is he just too skint to campaign further out than there? I'd really hope its the latter.

    Where can we send in comments of support?

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley

    I just hope no one else dies while this 'campaign' is undertaken

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SlaneMan

    It is interesting that once you look past the posturing of VS he does not deny that the Western route around Slane described in the additional information is totally impractical. It is twice as long, and has a much greater impact on the landscape and known archeological features compared to the proposed eastern bypass.

    Don’t forget that VS and his cohorts lectured everybody for months on how the Western bypass was much better that the proposed Eastern bypass. Instead he is continues to plays fast and loose with words when he says

    “If it comes to a choice between passing 500m from Slane Castle or 500m from Bru na Boinne, it is a no-brainer.”

    For those who do not understand the details, it is worth point pointing that the Western route does indeed pass 500m from back door of Slane Castle right through the middle of an Archeological Conservation Area whereas the Eastern bypass passes through a farmer’s field 500m from the outer edge of the 33 sq km buffer zone around Bru Na Boinne. In fact the eastern route is almost 2.5 km from Knowth and 4km from Newgrange. It will be barely visible from Knowth

    It will not be possible to see the bypass at all from Newgrange.

    He is still droning on calling for the infamous HGV ban knowing full well that Meath County Council have already said this is not practical and even if some very expensive HGV ban was somehow put in place to ban some trucks there still would be a huge volume of both trucks and cars passing over a 600 year old single bridge designed for horse drawn carriages at the bottom of a deadly hill that has killed 22 people so far.

    MYOB :

    Anybody can comment but its costs E50. Submissions or observations in relation to the additional information may be made in writing on payment of a fee of 50 euro to:
    An Bord Pleanala, 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1
    not later than 5.30pm on the 15th October 2010. Telephone 01-858-1000

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley

    Ok, so this Salafia bloke costs the Irish taxpayer a hell of a lot of money with his opposition to progress, but he's 0 for 2 in recent campaigns. The last time I looked the M50 and M3 were both completed along their original alignments. Let's hope he's 0-3 after this battle!

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick

    The country is broke. Why o Why are we building a new road from Dublin to Ardee when the M1 and N33 serve the route fine?

    Why not build a quality alignment instead of the N51, ban trucks on the N2 route through Slane and let them use the M3, M1 or R132.

    If the route to Ardee gets dualled, then motorists going from Belfast to Dublin or vice versa can toll dodge using the m/n2 n33 in reverse. It is madness.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SlaneMan

    Fact: There are no plans to build a new road from Dublin to Ardee.

    The current proposal is to build a badly needed 3.5km bypass around Slane. There are *no* active plans to build a new road from Dublin to Ardee. The NRA did look at this a while back but decided against it because as you say, we are broke.

    Mr. Salufia is the person who keeps portraying the Slane bypass as the new "M2" to Ardee. This suits his real agenda which is to stop the Slane bypass.

    It is not so simple to ban trucks from Slane. Meath County Council have already looked into this and concluded that is not feasible. If you try and ban trucks from Slane you just push them into neighbouring vilages over minor country roads (eg Kensttown, Duleek). Even if you devise some kind of ban, there will still a huge volume of local and E/W truck trafic that would have no choice but to continue to use the very dangerious hill approaching the 600 yeard old single lane bridge in Slane.

    This real issue here is safety.

    Slane bridge is a black spot that has killed 22 peope and injured many more. We need a short 3.5 km bypass to solve the problem once and for all.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,543 ✭✭✭veryangryman

    Simple suggestion...

    Downgrade N2 from Dublin-Ardee as the RXXX - perhaps listing Ashbourne and Slane as the possible destinations
    Reassign N33 to N2
    Resignpost M1 as "Belfast/Derry" with obvious "N2 Derry" signage at the Ardee exit

    That would sort everyone out. Sure you still have the stupid toll at Drogs but people would then actually use the M1 to get to Derry. You will still get the odd one who uses old road, but hed be in the minority

    Result: Less accidents at Slane. Job done (save for the bypass which it would still need)