NBS backsliding gets underway.

clohamon

It was too good an excuse to let pass, and the culprit was all too obvious; serial scapegoat "the weather" has been named and shamed by 3 Ireland.

My Department is currently considering a request from 3 for a short extension to the roll-out period due to delays in network construction during the recent adverse weather conditions.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-01-19.3338.0&s=%22Telecommunications+Services.%22

And what are the penalties for late delivery? asked Joe McHugh (FG)

Delays in achieving contractual rollout milestones will result in late and/or reduced subsidy payments to 3.

smellslikeshoes

I'm by no means a 3 or NBS supporter but coming down on them for asking for a little extra time after the recent weather is just a cheapshot. A lot of Rural areas were essentially inacessable for close to a month, especially since transmitters would often be on hills etc.

clohamon

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I'm by no means a 3 or NBS supporter but coming down on them for asking for a little extra time after the recent weather is just a cheapshot. A lot of Rural areas were essentially inacessable for close to a month, especially since transmitters would often be on hills etc.

Maybe; we'll see how much extra time they get at the end of the contract.

The contract was awarded a year ago and it still has eight months to run. It does look a bit strange that they did not allow for some period of bad weather in that 21 month period or that the schedule is so tight that they cannot make up the time between now and September.

smellslikeshoes

clohamon wrote: »

Maybe; we'll see how much extra time they get at the end of the contract.

The contract was awarded a year ago and it still has eight months to run. It does look a bit strange that they did not allow for some period of bad weather in that 21 month period or that the schedule is so tight that they cannot make up the time between now and September.

Well yes I'm sure there was some sort of time allocated for bad weather but I'm not sure if anyone was really prepeared for the weather that came this winter. If councils can be ill prepeared for it by not having enough grit etc. how can a company like 3 be blamed for not taking an exceptional weather occurance into account when making contract timeframes. Lets also not forget the severe flooding that occurred in parts of the country in late november which I'm sure also contributed to them falling behind.

Give them an extra 2 or 3 weeks and then come down on them like a ton of bricks if they need to ask for anymore after that.

JohnC.

I wonder how much of the Christmas and New Year period would have had no work done regardless of weather anyway?

clohamon

Eamon Ryan (Minister, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources; Dublin South, Green Party)
Under the terms of the National Broadband Scheme (NBS) contract, 3 Ireland is obliged to have provided coverage in all 1,028 electoral Divisions (EDs) included in the NBS, by October next.
The original date for this was September but, following a request by 3, under the Force Majeure provisions of the NBS contract, I have granted a 4 week extension to the contract due to the time lost in the network roll-out during the severe winter weather experienced in December and January last.
The table provides full details of network roll out to-date in County Tipperary. The timing of enablement of individual EDs is an operational matter for 3. This is linked closely with decisions relating to planning applications and it is therefore not possible to be absolutely certain when a particular area will be enabled.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-07-08.2695.0&s=%22Telecommunications+Services.%22

"Force Majeure" of course means that there will be no penalties.

CelticTigress

I still haven't got a satisfactory answer from the NBS as to why my area isn't covered when EVERY area is supposed to be covered by September (well, October now) according to their own blurb.

From their website:

Under the terms of the NBS contract, 3 is required to have provided coverage in all 1,028 Electoral Divisions (EDs) by end of October 2010.

I asked why my area was not covered on their coverage map and they said "well we haven't included your area yet" but couldn't say when this would be - I said you'd better hurry because your website says ALL areas have to have it by this date. The woman at the end of the phone argued with me saying that wasn't what the website said and they'd let me know when they were due to set up in my area.

They don't even know what their own website says!?

They'd better get their rear ends in gear... it's nearly August.

clohamon

CelticTigress wrote: »

I asked why my area was not covered on their coverage map and they said "well we haven't included your area yet" but couldn't say when this would be

Go here.

http://www.donegal.ie/DCC/iplaninternet/internetenquiry/rpt_querybysurforrecloc.asp

Put "3G" into the Name Box and "Limit Results to" within 2 years from today.

Press search and check if any of the applications listed are near you. Check the "Status" and the "Decided Date" or the "Received Date"

If any of them are local and recent you may be in luck. It doesn't take very long to put up a mast, sometimes less than a week.

If you want, you can check the plans submitted with the application ("view related documents"); there may be a coverage map included.

CelticTigress

clohamon wrote: »

Go here.

http://www.donegal.ie/DCC/iplaninternet/internetenquiry/rpt_querybysurforrecloc.asp

Put "3G" into the Name Box and "Limit Results to" within 2 years from today.

Press search and check if any of the applications listed are near you. Check the "Status" and the "Decided Date" or the "Received Date"

If any of them are local and recent you may be in luck. It doesn't take very long to put up a mast, sometimes less than a week.

If you want, you can check the plans submitted with the application ("view related documents"); there may be a coverage map included.

Ooooh! One very promising one there, if I think it is where it is, it's half a mile from where I am and has been approved in June 2010. I can't see any maps though but I think I know from the townland name where I think it will be (only one obvious place, anyway).

If it's not where I think it is it's still in the general area.

I guess it helps having a County Councillor who lives at the bottom of the very hill where I think they're proposing to put it, and is very frustrated by lack of broadband in the area.

I'll not believe it till I see it though.

Thanks Clohamon!

bealtine

CelticTigress wrote: »

I guess it helps having a County Councillor who lives at the bottom of the very hill where I think they're proposing to put it, and is very frustrated by lack of broadband in the area.

Don't get your hopes up too much, mobile is not really broadband no matter how much it is marketed as such.

CelticTigress

Can't be worse than dialup... can it? Even ISDN dialup (which I have and actually find pretty reliable)

watty

Mobile can easily be worse than 2 channel (128k ISDN)
Mobile
* Not always on
* Down to 50k
* May not connect
* May drop connection and lose all sessions
* Huge jitter
* High to very high ping
* Can be high packet loss
* Subsidised by Voice revenue. Costs x100 to x300 more than same retail value of Voice sales
* Has to have low cap to limit contention. Typically 10G, but should be 1G to 2G.



2ch ISDN
* Technically possible to supply always on (That's what a 128k leased line often is)
* Steady 128k if you get ISDN at all
* Always connects, almost instantly.
* Dropping connection is unlikely
* no jitter
* reasonable ping
* Error corrected link, zero packet loss
* Costs less than ADSL, yet eircom charge fortune for time or leased line.
* Can easily have no Cap. Current costs are a marketing, not technical decision.

OECD, ITU, Comreg, EU, Irish Government call 2 channel (128k) ISDN, Narrowband. So can Mobile services for Data be called Broadband?

Hence http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442502

The Joint Committee has concluded, for the Irish market, that speeds of anything less than 512kbs is not broadband but is in fact in a class known as ‘mid-band'. This would include such services as ISDN connections and 124 and 256kbs DSL connections. In this respect the Joint Committee's definition of broadband differs from that in use by other groups and significantly differs from the definition currently to be found in Section 8 of the Finance Bill 2004. The Joint Committee believes that all connections at speeds of less than 124kbs, currently the majority in the Irish economy, have to be regarded as narrowband connections.

Oireachtas 2004 http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm
http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chairmans_Preface.htm

OECD has 256kbps as minimum speed for Broadband.
http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_2649_34225_39575598_1_1_1_1,00.html
3G/ HSPDA @ 7.2Mbps is NOT a speed faster than 256kbps to users as with a reasonable number of users in sector the speed is about 200kbps and can easily be 50kbps.
3G Mobile is excluded anyway by OECD!

ii. Does not include
1. 3G mobile technologies
2. Wi-Fi
3. Exceptions: included in rare case that Wi-Fi/3G is the transport mechanism of a fixed-wireless provider (e.g. in rural UK, CZ [Edit: outdoor fixed aerial + dedicated masts recommended])

The NBS is "3G mobile technologies"

3 has only a 3G Mobile Phone licence and no other "last mile" technology.

CelticTigress

watty wrote: »

Mobile can easily be worse than 2 channel (128k ISDN)
Mobile
* Not always on
* Down to 50k
* May not connect
* May drop connection and lose all sessions
* Huge jitter
* High to very high ping
* Can be high packet loss
* Subsidised by Voice revenue. Costs x100 to x300 more than same retail value of Voice sales
* Has to have low cap to limit contention. Typically 10G, but should be 1G to 2G.



2ch ISDN
* Technically possible to supply always on (That's what a 128k leased line often is)
* Steady 128k if you get ISDN at all
* Always connects, almost instantly.
* Dropping connection is unlikely
* no jitter
* reasonable ping
* Error corrected link, zero packet loss
* Costs less than ADSL, yet eircom charge fortune for time or leased line.
* Can easily have no Cap. Current costs are a marketing, not technical decision.

OECD, ITU, Comreg, EU, Irish Government call 2 channel (128k) ISDN, Narrowband. So can Mobile services for Data be called Broadband?

Hence http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442502

Oireachtas 2004 http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm
http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chairmans_Preface.htm

OECD has 256kbps as minimum speed for Broadband.
http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_2649_34225_39575598_1_1_1_1,00.html
3G/ HSPDA @ 7.2Mbps is NOT a speed faster than 256kbps to users as with a reasonable number of users in sector the speed is about 200kbps and can easily be 50kbps.
3G Mobile is excluded anyway by OECD!


The NBS is "3G mobile technologies"

3 has only a 3G Mobile Phone licence and no other "last mile" technology.

I knew I liked my ISDN. It still isn't that fast, but it is usually reliable. *touch wood*. Nevertheless.... *sigh*

I tried a mobile dongle a couple of weeks ago (Vodafone's) and after a lot of footering was able to connect, but miserable snail speed even worse than normal dialup... pathetic.

clohamon

The new extended deadline of October 2010 may prove difficult for H3GI. Two planning applications lodged to Kerry Co. Co. in May, and refused in June were only recently appealed to An Bord Pleanala.

The result is that the appeals are not due to be decided until the end of November.

So unless someone talks to someone in An Bord Pleanala it doesn't look like H3GI can meet their new deadline.

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/237158.htm
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/237192.htm

Sponge Bob

One was kicked out in Galway last week ...up near the top of Lough Corrib. No way october unless they truckroll them sat installs