Diesel failed NCT for high emissions

thebiglad

Seen there are many threads already so apologies for starting yet another - but posting up details specific to my fail so please bear with me.

Car is 02 2.0TDcI (140bhp) Mondeo Estate

Fully serviced 2 weeks ago (so don't believe that is an option), new exhaust fitted at time of service too.

only info I have on NCT is fail - Smoke 3.910/m - engine/oil temp 62c - limit is 2.50 so was way over - there is nothing else I can give you on this - have no other numbers!

Is this likely to be terminal or something which can be tidied up by my mechanic (whom I will be taking car to at weekend anyway).

Any views in advance - good or bad would be appreciated, the extent above limit does not look good!

Cheers

TouchingVirus

thebiglad wrote: »

Seen there are many threads already so apologies for starting yet another - but posting up details specific to my fail so please bear with me.

Car is 02 2.0TDcI (140bhp) Mondeo Estate

Fully serviced 2 weeks ago (so don't believe that is an option), new exhaust fitted at time of service too.

only info I have on NCT is fail - Smoke 3.910/m - engine/oil temp 62c - limit is 2.50 so was way over - there is nothing else I can give you on this - have no other numbers!

Is this likely to be terminal or something which can be tidied up by my mechanic (whom I will be taking car to at weekend anyway).

Any views in advance - good or bad would be appreciated, the extent above limit does not look good!

Cheers

What did your mechanic say? If you don't understand how the car works then don't despair over a reading you can't understand. It might even be something simple like an oil filter *guess*

I remember I failed once after paying nearly €500 for the pre-NCT service. I took the car right back to the garage, told them to fix it and bring it to the NCT test centre for it's re-test. They did and it passed.

thebiglad

NCT Mechanic said it was not good! My own mechanic I will speak with tommorrow - car did smoke under hard accelaration before service but that had stopped - car has been well driven since the service to run any residual from the engine.

I am only trying to get the car through NCT so that I can then sell it on anyhow - after spending money preparing it for NCT haven't got the heart to throw too much more at it:mad:

ronaneire

What sort of mileage is on the car?

shawnee

There are additives available that may assist in passing emmissions . If you speak to a motor factors and a suitable mechanic you may pass next time round,.:D

thebiglad

ronaneire wrote: »

What sort of mileage is on the car?

97,000 miles

peasant

thebiglad wrote: »

- car has been well driven since the service to run any residual from the engine.

How was it driven to the test though?
If that drive was just a crawl through traffic and you arrived there with the engine hardly warm the first blast of the accelerator would almost have suffocated the tester

ronaneire

Some good additives at that too, thats the route I'd go.

thebiglad

peasant wrote: »

How was it driven to the test though?
If that drive was just a crawl through traffic and you arrived there with the engine hardly warm the first blast of the accelerator would almost have suffocated the tester

It was an open road run with speeds up to 80kph (for any Garda reading substitute 60kph) - drive to test took 20 minutes and aside from couple of traffic lights mostly in motion. Had to wait for 10 minutes when arrived before car taken in and it was turned off (I presume) before they brought it through.

My biggest concern was the reaction of the tester about how much over it was, doesn't sound like a leave it running or additive might be enough!

homer90

http://www.dipetane.ie/

Might be worth a go - I always throw a drop in before an NCT test

flamegrill

63C sounds a bit low. I believe the optimum temperature is around 90C so this may have something to do with it. It could also be some sort of filter that's gone, duno if those TDCI engines have DPF or if that's something newer. But a diesel with 97k miles isn't much, it should do another 200k.

Get onto your mechanic and see what the hell they did. Most likely due to the exhaust replacement, some eejit may have forgotten something

thebiglad

flamegrill wrote: »

63C sounds a bit low. I believe the optimum temperature is around 90C so this may have something to do with it. It could also be some sort of filter that's gone, duno if those TDCI engines have DPF or if that's something newer. But a diesel with 97k miles isn't much, it should do another 200k.

Get onto your mechanic and see what the hell they did. Most likely due to the exhaust replacement, some eejit may have forgotten something

That is definitely my first question - I paid to have the car serviced (specifically for engine element of NCT) - I am not happy to have paid out and still get a fail!

Good tip re engine temperature and noted, the more advice I can get here the more balanced the conversation with mechanic can be.

thebiglad

flamegrill wrote: »

63C sounds a bit low. I believe the optimum temperature is around 90C so this may have something to do with it. It could also be some sort of filter that's gone, duno if those TDCI engines have DPF or if that's something newer. But a diesel with 97k miles isn't much, it should do another 200k.

Get onto your mechanic and see what the hell they did. Most likely due to the exhaust replacement, some eejit may have forgotten something

Just used internet search to get optimum temperature advice and found UK Mot site http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_740.htm - like our NCT but better:p

Anyhow smoke test to be conducted at 80c unless 'normal' operating temperature is lower but not below 60c as it will affect results (no kidding!) surely our friends in NCTS know this too.

flamegrill

They should probably know the optimum operating temperatures. However since it's a money racket you're at their mercy.

Btw before paying your mechanic/garage anything further (once they look at it) make sure you get another opinion. Especially if they've done a number on you.

Paul

GERMAN ROCKS

my car hdi used to blow out a lot of black smoke there. so i went to the motor factors and bought a pre nct kit and poured the two bottles into a full tank of diesel. i only used half the tank before the test and during that i noticed a big decrease in smoke. also when driving to the test centre i averaged the revs to about 3000rpm. i was early to the centre and the car was stopped for a good haldf hour. anyway oil temp was 62oc and emissions were 1.15 so was very happy with it. passed everything.

mondeo

I would 100% agree with your engine temp not being up to normal before testing. My Volvo S80 went through the test yesturday, my car was sitting outside with engine switched off for 40 minutes before the tester drove her in and tested the emmisions.. I was saying " Jesus" to myself she is gonna fail on emmisions for sure now since she is stone cold. It passed the test in the end at an engine temp of 45c which was surprising to me however she just about passed and I said it to the tester afterwards why he didn't let her heat up properly? He did not say anything just that it passed so what was I complaing about? :rolleyes:

franksm

Do all the dash lights come on when you turn the key, and then go off when the engine starts ? Particularly thinking of the glowplug light and the check-engine light.

The latter can sometimes be removed to hide a problem, but if yours is coming on initially (system check) and then going off, then very likely there's no sensor problem or anything that would cause the engine to go into limp-home or restricted-performance mode.

A problem with filters would be my guess, especially the air filter.

thebiglad

Thanks everyone for the advice.

It definitely seems a hard drive to NCT centre and a diesel additive are the way to go.

It was supposed to have been fully serviced 2 weeks ago but I will get mechanic to once over the engine & exhaust system again.

Then gonna rebook the NCT and will post back how I get on in a couple of weeks.

gofaster_s13

3.9 is barely a fail, the exhaust reading for turbo diesels should be 3.0 or under, not 2.5 as said in first post(I have often seen 9.99 which is as high as the machine reads) I would also like to see a higher oil tempreture on the test machine(80c or higher) a good additive should get this car passed for you but may or may not cure the problem permanantly.

mullingar

My 1.6 Focus TDCI 110bhp passed yesterday

Emmissions ONLY 0.050 !!!!!! Could not believe it. Tested rev'd the CRAP out off it to increase it :D

gofaster_s13

mullingar wrote: »

My 1.6 Focus TDCI 110bhp passed yesterday

Emmissions ONLY 0.050 !!!!!! Could not believe it. Tested rev'd the CRAP out off it to increase it :D

He didnt rev the crap out of it to increase the readings:rolleyes:, the diesel smoke test is done at full revs and often the testers will give the engine a couple of hard revs to clear the exhaust before carrying out the test, this is often taken as being a tester trying to make the car fail when in fact its totally the opposite.

thebiglad

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

3.9 is barely a fail, the exhaust reading for turbo diesels should be 3.0 or under, not 2.5 as said in first post(I have often seen 9.99 which is as high as the machine reads) I would also like to see a higher oil tempreture on the test machine(80c or higher) a good additive should get this car passed for you but may or may not cure the problem permanantly.

Definitely shows required limit on NCT failure notice as 2.5.

voxpop

The tester is supposed to ensure that the car is up to temp, then rev it once to clear our the system and then rev it a second time to do the test - its all listed in the NCT manual on their site.

pajo1981

Isn't suggesting that a person use a additive like suggesting that they use a bucket to fix a leak in a roof?

thebiglad

pajo1981 wrote: »

Isn't suggesting that a person use a additive like suggesting that they use a bucket to fix a leak in a roof?

Yeah but a bucket is so much cheaper than a roofer - there's a recession on:p

Rest safe the car is now with mechanic for analysis

Alun

thebiglad wrote: »

Definitely shows required limit on NCT failure notice as 2.5.

It's 2.5 for non-turbo and 3.0 for turbo diesels according to the manual linked to on the website, so it looks like they were using the wrong info from somewhere.

mullingar

From page 6 of the NCT manual

http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/nctmanual.pdf


Exhaust Smoke (1) (Vehicles registered on or after 1/1/80 up to 1st July 2008)

Where the average smoke meter reading is higher than 2.5m in the case of naturally aspirated diesel engines and 3.0m in the case of turbo charged or supercharged diesel engines.

thebiglad

Alun wrote: »

It's 2.5 for non-turbo and 3.0 for turbo diesels according to the manual linked to on the website, so it looks like they were using the wrong info from somewhere.

When it comes to cars I get in an drive it but...

I thought the T in TDCi stood for Turbo

thebiglad

Had car retested by my own mechanic and with engine oil temperature 'at correct temperature' emissions are well within limits - 1. something.

Lesson learned - take a very long route to the NCT centre, don't turn up too early and don't get out of 3rd gear.

Just for belt and braces gonna throw in a fuel additive as earlier suggested.

Thanks again everyone for advice.suggestions.

MunsterCycling

This should be a free retest as they broke their own regulations by doing the test on an engine that was too cold.

MC

flamegrill

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

He didnt rev the crap out of it to increase the readings:rolleyes:, the diesel smoke test is done at full revs and often the testers will give the engine a couple of hard revs to clear the exhaust before carrying out the test, this is often taken as being a tester trying to make the car fail when in fact its totally the opposite.

One observation I have here. You can't rev my CR 170ps engine past 2500 rpms while it's stationary.

I wonder what net effect that'll have come NCT time (years away mind..).

mullingar

Emm, whats a CR?

thebiglad

MunsterCycling wrote: »

This should be a free retest as they broke their own regulations by doing the test on an engine that was too cold.

MC

It also failed for 1 of rear shocks so if emissions were tested 'correctly' would have still been a fail, apart from that I would now be steaming at the NCT Crowd.

However, I have my own emissions report (dated 2 days after NCT) to show its good so if I get another emissions fail on the retest then there is going to be a discussion...

My biggest issue was that the tester said that this was a very bad fail and implied there was probably something really wrong, my own mechanic hasn't a lot of time for the NCT testing people and probably even less now.

Bring on the retest...

flamegrill

mullingar wrote: »

Emm, whats a CR?

Common Rail Diesel engine in my Super II

kildaremum

My hyundai trajet 2.0 diesel just failed NCT smoke test 9.99 - I never drive it hard. What are the chances of it passing if I get dipetane and add to the diesel. It never seems particularly smokey even when my 17 year old drives it around the garden. Also failed because of one light over the back number plate not working.

kildaremum

kildaremum wrote: »

My hyundai trajet 2.0 diesel just failed NCT smoke test 9.99 - I never drive it hard.

Drive the sh1te out of it every now and then does it the World of good.

shamwari

A good hard run, a clean air filter and and oil/filter change before a test nearly always guarantees a pass.

A bit of advice though, I'm not mad on using additives on the latest common rail engines......;)

shedweller

Been using Dipetane for some time now without any issues.
I know though, it shouldn't have to be used.
I cleaned out my EGR valve and intake a while back. All the major smoke upon acceleration went away after the egr was cleaned. The intake port itself had become partly closed off with tar/soot by about 1/3rd. Not good at all really!

KamiKazi

Stick a few litres of petrol in it just before the test, it'll drop the emissions a bit.

SilverBell

There was a guy called Ivan who had a diesel service place on the Rathmines Road. It was full of taxi men and other diesels coming round after failing emission tests. Ivan sold magic juice called Stanadyne injector cleaner. I used it on my 300D and a Primera 2.0 and they both passed (I know....not the best of a test).

Anyway, Ivan said the stuff was good, flogged loads of it before NCT's and so did a mate of mine who used with success it on emission fail cars.
Dont know it is compatible with the more modern CR engines though. Might be worth a shot!

kildaremum

Thanks for all the replies. I'll have filters changed and anything else I have to do to pass the test. My 17 year old says serves me right for driving like a Granny !

KamiKazi

flamegrill wrote: »

Common Rail Diesel engine in my Super II

Would it not have been easier to say that in the first place instead of showin off the fact that you know a small bit about your car?

gofaster_s13

KamiKazi wrote: »

Stick a few litres of petrol in it just before the test, it'll drop the emissions a bit.

Whatever else you do, don't follow that piece of advice, I've seen a number of engines destroyed by doing this and several fuel systems wrecked, petrol in any quantity does not belong in diesel engines. Get the air and fuel filters changed and then go to your local motor factors and buy a bottle or two of a product called Dipethane(don't let them try to sell you any other product) pour it into your 1/2 full diesel tank and drive the car for a couple of days using more revs than usual, if this doesnt work there are bigger problems somewhere in the system. As a DOE tester(commercial equiv of the NCT) I've seen Dipethane do fantastic things.

kildaremum

Brought car to garage to have filters changed and they have told me that intake parts of engine need stripping down and cleaning must be all clogged up to give 9.9 reading cost abt 300 euro. I just havent got that this week so just going to go with the filters and add the dipethane. What happens if it fails again on same thing.

cena

can you put dipethane into a petrol car

shedweller

cena wrote: »

can you put dipethane into a petrol car

Yes.

sean1141

my oil temp reading on the nct report was 85'c. i sometimes use millers additive in my car. reduces smoke and makes the engine a small bit quieter..
petrol in a modern tdi = no good. in the older diesels guys use to put in a small drop to help lubricate the injector pump but not many cars have these any more

shedweller

kildaremum wrote: »

Brought car to garage to have filters changed and they have told me that intake parts of engine need stripping down and cleaning must be all clogged up to give 9.9 reading cost abt 300 euro. I just havent got that this week so just going to go with the filters and add the dipethane. What happens if it fails again on same thing.

That blockage is a result of the EGR system doing it's thing. It directs some exhaust gas back into the intake manifold to lower NOx emissions at the expense of most other emissions. This gas condenses in the intake manifold into a black tar that over time, blocks up the EGR pipe and eventually, the intake pipe itself.
It's this intake pipe blockage that has more than likely resulted in your nct failure. Cleaning of this, along with things like filters etc. should get you a pass.
I checked mine not too long ago and the intake pipe was blocked up by a third. The egr port was almost completely blocked off. Cleaning this resulted in far less smoke upon acceleration.