Upgrading Bike parts... expert advice needed/most welcom

Mr Velo

Hi,

I'm in the process of upgrading my Defy 2.5 bike.
Have committed to buying Ksyrium Equipe wheels - but looking at changing the Cranks etc....

See current spec below - your advice would be most welcome.

ANDLEBAR Giant Anatomic O.S.
STEM Giant 3D forged
SEAT POST Giant Aluminium
SADDLE Giant Performance Road
PEDALS Wellgo road
SHIFTERS Shimano Tiagra 27 speed STI
FRONT MECH Shimano Tiagra
REAR MECH Shimano Tiagra
BRAKES Tektro R350 Dual pivot
BRAKE LEVER Shimano Tiagra STI
CASSETTE Shimano HG50 12-25
CHAIN Shimano HG73
CRANKS FSA Vero 30/39/50
BOTTOM BRACKET FSA cartridge
RIMS Alex DA22 700c
HUBS Formula RB31/32
SPOKES Stainless steel
TYRES Kenda Kriterium L3R 700x25mm


Seeing as it's got the Tiagra shifters etc, i possibly should just purchase a Tiagra crankset and brakes - but maybe one of you can advise on something better.

DirkVoodoo

Why are you looking to upgrade?

Wheels are a great start.

As for crankset, moving to a Tiagra crankset with outboard bearings would be a good move, but all these upgrades are expensive and ultimately you can end up spending a lot of money on minimal performance increases.

How much have you budgeted for all the upgrades? If it gets to the point where you can say "I can keep the Giant as a winter bike and buy a planet x", then don't buy them.

Mr Velo

Thanks Dirk,

This crankset do the job??
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=21876

estariol

notwithstanding performance and bang for buck, best upgrade I ever made on an Al bike was a carbon seatpost (& saddle) hugely improved ride feel.
Also changed out the stock Al stem and bars for carbon....but honestly coldn't tell the difference!

DirkVoodoo

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

Thanks Dirk,

This crankset do the job??
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=21876

Yes but you will need to buy the bottom bracket cups, maybe get the bottom bracket faced by your bike shop...it starts to add up.

Mr Velo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yes but you will need to buy the bottom bracket cups, maybe get the bottom bracket faced by your bike shop...it starts to add up.

Thanks - i gathered that alright about the BB cups. They're €14.50.
Pardon my ignorance - how do you mean to get the BB "faced" by my bike shop?

blorg

BB facing is basically cutting the BB shell to make sure the ends are parallel. It doesn't matter with traditional BBs but does with the external-bearing variety. Your bike may or may not need facing.

You may well not notice a difference moving from FSA Vero to Tiagra with the external BB. However certainly not a bad price on CRC... what's your aim with all this and what's the budget- as Dirk says may be better off just buying a new bike and leaving the old one as is. Generally doesn't make a lot of sense to upgrade entry-level bikes.

If there isn't anything wrong with your current crankset probably not a lot of point replacing.

lescol

I recently replaced a tiagra double chainset with square taper BB because the BB was shot. The chainset is now on another bike, however, I put on an FSA megaexo compact with external bearings. It hasn't "upgraded" the bike, I'm no faster on it and the weight saving is negligible. Only change these things if you have to. There was a noticeable difference when I fitted the bike with better wheels than provided by the manufacturer.

blorg

The wheels will make an improvement, I'd stick to them. They are also easy to transfer to a new bike if you relegate/sell this one.

estariol

OP has already mentioned askiums as a given upgrade, IMO can't tell the difference between my 105 and ultegera/daura ace group sets. I as a said the biggest change to my riding experience was a carbon seat post and a half decent saddle, oh and decent bar tape wouldn't be a bad idea!

The more comfortable you are in my view the better and longer you can train!

blorg

estariol wrote: »

biggest change to my riding experience was a carbon seat post and a half decent saddle

Good tip, I've also upgraded those before and they were also easily transferable to the new bike!

Quigs Snr

Put nice wheels on it, keep your old ones for when you sell this one. Then just upgrade the whole bike. The bike you have is a fine machine for a certain level, but upgrading is a contagious thing and to bring it truly up to the next level would not be cost effective with the deals out there. Contact points like pedals, bars, saddle are good upgrades also as they are transferable. No matter what bike I am on I always use the same bars, saddle and pedals.

bikenut

Take a look at this guy - he took a Giant Defy 3 and upgraded to:
Ultegra 6600 shifters/105 elsewhere
Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels
FSA stem and handlebars

Not for me to question anyone's decision (and he seems happy anyway which is the main thing) but.... I guess at least everything is transferable but again, why not just buy another bike, like what do you do with all the old stuff?

OP, I'm sure you know (since your CRC link is to a triple) that changing to a double or compact would require changing shifters (which it seems your happy with) but just thought I'd mention. Also think the Ksyrium's are a great upgrade.

Thanks Blorg for mentioning facing - I'm just about to switch from square taper to HollowTech BB and hadn't heard about this but think I need to investigate.

Maybe I'm not adding much, but I think the video will give some people a smile.

DirkVoodoo

From Sheldon:

The process of finishing the flat surfaces of the frame and fork to which bearing assemblies attach. Correct facing of the head tube, fork crown, and bottom bracket shell ensures correct alignment of the headset and bottom bracket bearings. This is necessary to ensure good bearing performance and reliability.

Facing requires highly specialized milling equipment, among the most expensive of bicycle tools. Even minimal tools to do this job cost several hundred dollars.

And link to Park Tools section on bottom bracket installation

blorg

bikenut wrote: »

Maybe I'm not adding much, but I think the video will give some people a smile.

He comes over a bit bike-nerdy but in fairness it turned out well and he obviously looks after the bike (presuming he rides it ) Was it the best use of the money though. I note his front brake QR is undone ಠ_ಠ

DirkVoodoo

You always seem to notice that, I think one spin last year you spotted two separate cases of undone brake qrs.

Is it wrong that I wanted to whack that guy around the side of the head with a white sidi?

I would only consider it being worth it because he seems to have bought a lot second hand, but even then I think he would be better served by HTFU and getting his ass out in that rain instead of fapping over videos of his bike.

The seat and the ksyriums would be the only upgrades I would look at if it were my bike.

Mr Velo

Seriously appreciate all of the advice gentlemen.
You've certainly spared me some hard earned cash there - in the interim anyways

I've already purchased the new wheels - just wondering should i now try upgrading the seatpost, saddle and handlebar stem?

Looking at the vid of the guy with the Defy 3, he mentions the "creaky" stem. I have the exact same problem on my bike which bugged me on cycles last year.
In terms of upgrading the seatpost and stem, is there anything i should be looking out for or anything that you might recommend for my particular bike?

Been looking at a Fizik Antares saddle - they're damn well expensive though so i think i'll hold off until the next Wiggle discount offer.

Lumen

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

I've already purchased the new wheels - just wondering should i now try upgrading the seatpost, saddle and handlebar stem?

Saddle - yes, if it's uncomfortable.
Stem - yes, if it's creaky.
Seatpost - don't expect too much from an "upgrade". Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between a cheap alloy one and an expensive carbon one.

Upgrading your bike component by component is an excellent way to forget that you're bankrupting yourself.

Mr Velo

Lumen wrote: »

Upgrading your bike component by component is an excellent way to forget that you're bankrupting yourself.

Very good advice there Lumen.... and very true. It all adds up i guess.
Bought my bike last year so don't really want to get rid this year.
Got it into my head that because all of the parts weren't shimano etc... i could easily (cheaply) upgrade them to same.

cdaly_

blorg wrote: »

The wheels will make an improvement.

Errm, how much of an improvement? Only for racing?

I'm currently on stock wheels on my FCR3 and rim wear will require replacements in the next few months. I have no clue what I should be looking for. Would replacing them with stock be a waste of money rather than buying something different?

The current ones are good and strong. No issues with them after 18 months of commuting (about 10,000k) on all sorts of surfaces...

blorg

Lighter wheels (in my opinion, there was another thread on this) do make it easier to go up hills. However if your bike is pretty heavy as things are (and I think yours is IIRC) may not be worthwhile.

For commuting there is certainly no point getting fancy wheels. Solid is more important.

The stock wheels on entry level Giants are not great IMO. I have one myself, Alex DA22 rims. However after a re-truing they have been perfectly reliable.

You could replace with something like Mavic Aksiums from CSS who have them at a very good price indeed. Good solid wheels.

Or for a bit more money something like 32 spoke Open Pro rims, or even 36 spoke and a heavier rim like an A319 if you use a rack and carry stuff on it (which IIRC you do?)

Mr Velo

Lumen wrote: »

Saddle - yes, if it's uncomfortable.
Stem - yes, if it's creaky.

Lumen, can you recommend any preferable stems or saddles?
Also, on my current wheelset i have Kendra 25C tyres... i'm going to purchase a new set of 23C tyres for my Ksyriums, again - recommendations on a nice tyre would be super.

ten speed racer

I’m not so sure about the consensus that you should never upgrade part by part. If you can afford it, buying a complete bike such as the Planet X is likely to be the cheapest option. But if you can’t afford to fork out over a grand now, there is nothing wrong with changing individual parts when you have the money.

You could be disciplined and save that extra cash until you have enough money to buy a complete bike. However, by buying stuff when you can, you gain whatever performance enhancements (albeit, most of them will be tiny) straightaway and the enjoyment from the upgraded bike. This could more than make up for the cost of buying individual parts.

You have to bear in mind that you don’t need any of this stuff. But it’s not a question of need, it is question of want.

All the being said, as the others have argued and as you’ve done, wheels should probably be the first upgrade to go for.

Lumen

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

Lumen, can you recommend any preferable stems or saddles? Also, on my current wheelset i have Kendra 25C tyres... i'm going to purchase a new set of 23C tyres for my Ksyriums, again - recommendations on a nice tyre would be super.

Saddles are very personal, but I have Specialized Toupe on two bikes and love them. They come in two sizes - 130mm and 143mm. I have both, and a spare in case Specialized go bust. The 143mm is a bit more stable to sit on, but both are comfortable, light and not ridiculously expensive.

As for stems, I haven't used a stem that didn't work. You pay more for less weight. I've bought a couple of Ritchey WCS 4-axis ones, and they look nice. Currently using a Planet-X one and Pro one, because I happened to have them in the right length. Stems come with different angles to give different handlebar heights.

Tyre wise, you can't go wrong with Conti GP4000S (for grip) or Gatorskins (for durability). Schwalbe Ultremos used to be popular, but they had a bad recall issue last year and deserve to be punished.

blorg

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

Lumen, can you recommend any preferable stems or saddles?
Also, on my current wheelset i have Kendra 25C tyres... i'm going to purchase a new set of 23C tyres for my Ksyriums, again - recommendations on a nice tyre would be super.

I think you took up the "contact point" suggestion wrong. It's handlebars, not the stem.

There is no need to replace your stem unless it is the wrong length. If it is creaky, grease or even better use carbon assembly paste on the stem-bar interface (it works on non-carbon parts just as good.)

There is no need to replace your handlebars unless you find them uncomfortable. If you do, there are a myriad of different shapes out there so you need to consider do you want more/less drop, a round bend, an "ergo" bend (with a flat bit), the type of ergo bend, etc etc.

Saddles are unfortunately a personal thing so what works for me (Brooks) could well be torture for you. Probably would be. Best find a shop that does loaners or has a good return policy. Some manufacturers have a comfort guarantee (Bontrager.) It may be worth getting your arse measured- Cycleways do this for Specialized Body Geometry saddles, they have some sort of gel thing you sit on and can measure the distance between your sit bones.

Again, is there something wrong with your current saddle? If so, when does it happen, e.g. is it comfortable up to a certain distance but not after. An obvious upgrade which you can take with you to a new bike is shorts!

Tyres however are one thing that will make a big difference. Moving to something like Schwalbe Ultremo R or Continental GP4000S will make a _massive_ difference over the Kendas (I had them on my own Giant and replacing with GP4000s was like a new bike.) You don't particularly have to go to 700x23 either, these tyres are available in 700x25 which offers more comfort and grip. 700x23 is fine though too in summer.

What sort of pedals are you using at the moment?

EDIT: Another suggestion: a fitting session with www.irishfit.eu may be the most cost-effective "upgrade" you could make.

cdaly_

cdaly_ wrote: »

I'm currently on stock wheels on my FCR3 and rim wear will require replacements in the next few months.
The current ones are good and strong. No issues with them after 18 months of commuting (about 10,000k) on all sorts of surfaces...

So, I went and read up on how to check the wear on the rims and the answer appears to be:

Concave with a depth of about 1mm means it's time to replace.

Went and measured them with a straight edge and a light. With the light behind the edge, it looked like a crescent moon! Looks like they're well overdue...

Lumen

cdaly_ wrote: »

So, I went and read up on how to check the wear on the rims and the answer appears to be...it's time to replace.

Time for an upgrade?

Go on, you deserve it. :pac:

I'm done with sensible

Mr Velo

Lumen wrote: »

Saddles are very personal, but I have Specialized Toupe on two bikes and love them. They come in two sizes - 130mm and 143mm. I have both, and a spare in case Specialized go bust. The 143mm is a bit more stable to sit on, but both are comfortable, light and not ridiculously expensive.

As for stems, I haven't used a stem that didn't work. You pay more for less weight. I've bought a couple of Ritchey WCS 4-axis ones, and they look nice. Currently using a Planet-X one and Pro one, because I happened to have them in the right length. Stems come with different angles to give different handlebar heights.

Tyre wise, you can't go wrong with Conti GP4000S (for grip) or Gatorskins (for durability). Schwalbe Ultremos used to be popular, but they had a bad recall issue last year and deserve to be punished.

Thanks for the advice Lumen.

blorg wrote: »

I think you took up the "contact point" suggestion wrong. It's handlebars, not the stem.

There is no need to replace your stem unless it is the wrong length. If it is creaky, grease or even better use carbon assembly paste on the stem-bar interface (it works on non-carbon parts just as good.)

There is no need to replace your handlebars unless you find them uncomfortable. If you do, there are a myriad of different shapes out there so you need to consider do you want more/less drop, a round bend, an "ergo" bend (with a flat bit), the type of ergo bend, etc etc.

Saddles are unfortunately a personal thing so what works for me (Brooks) could well be torture for you. Probably would be. Best find a shop that does loaners or has a good return policy. Some manufacturers have a comfort guarantee (Bontrager.) It may be worth getting your arse measured- Cycleways do this for Specialized Body Geometry saddles, they have some sort of gel thing you sit on and can measure the distance between your sit bones.

Again, is there something wrong with your current saddle? If so, when does it happen, e.g. is it comfortable up to a certain distance but not after. An obvious upgrade which you can take with you to a new bike is shorts!

Tyres however are one thing that will make a big difference. Moving to something like Schwalbe Ultremo R or Continental GP4000S will make a _massive_ difference over the Kendas (I had them on my own Giant and replacing with GP4000s was like a new bike.) You don't particularly have to go to 700x23 either, these tyres are available in 700x25 which offers more comfort and grip. 700x23 is fine though too in summer.

What sort of pedals are you using at the moment?

Thanks Blorg. Currently using old Look PP337 pedals, got them approx 4 years ago so they're certainly not the lightest. Transferred them from my old bike. http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/pedals/look/PRD_292342_2503crx.aspx

I'll certainly go and get the Continental 4000s tyres now to go on the Ksyriums - looking forward to the difference.
Actually, seeing as you've had the Alex D22 rims, do you happen to know what they weigh? I'd like to know what i'm going from and to if you know what i mean.

NOthing in particular wrong with my current saddle. I purchased a good pair of Endura shorts last year and they are the bomb - coupled with the Chamois cream of course.

blorg

Paddy_Fowler wrote: »

Actually, seeing as you've had the Alex D22 rims, do you happen to know what they weigh? I'd like to know what i'm going from and to if you know what i mean.

I'm not sure but heavy... around 2kg I'd imagine for the wheelset, could be a touch over. My wheels are fixed (Giant Bowery) so not a direct comparison.

The tyres are going to make more of a difference than anything else you do to that bike though, even more than the wheels I suspect. The Kendas are tough but pretty hard and harsh, a good grippy tyre really transforms the ride.

Regarding other upgrades I am not sure anything really jumps out if you find your current saddle and bars comfortable. A fitting might be a good idea, www.irishfit.eu gets very good reports. For €70 you might end up more comfortable and faster. Mean to do it myself soon, certainly before I get a TT bike.

I am also very fond of my Garmin Edge 705, well worth it.

You could drop 100g easy going even to one of the entry level of more modern pedals... don't know if they are better in other ways as I've only ever used the one road system (Time RXS.) Probably are a few improvements though with more modern pedals.

These things are all easily transferrable of course.