Church Annulments

otherwoman

Hi All,

Just looking for some information on church annulments. I've done a search but only one or two results from nearly two years ago. That probably means that they aren't very common.

Situation is that i've been going out with my boyfriend for about 3 years now. About 4 year ago, he seperated from his wife and is only now looking to start the annulment process. He's literally at the very start. Beginning to fill in the initial forms.

What i'd like to know is if anybody has recently gone through this process, particularly in the Munster area. And if they have any advice based on their experiences. they don't provide much details with the form like what type of witnesses are required or how many. They do say that it will take about 3 years but another post on this website put it at ten years.

I think he is only doing it for me, and i don't know whether to feel guilty about letting him go through this process given the cost and time.

Any information would be very appreciated.

Thanks

TG

BigBelly

A family member went through this process a number of years ago and it took over 10 years to finalise. I would encourage your partner to speak to his priest for information and seek legal advice.

tinkerbell

A family friend went through this and it was not easy for her at all. It is very very very difficult in this country to get an annulment. The church will require the person to go through extensive interviews on reasons for annulment, etc. and it's not a very pleasant process. I'm not sure if it's changed now but that's how it was about 5-10 years ago anyway. There are also only certain situations where you actually can get an annulment as well I think.

Is divorce not an option because you will not be able to get married to him in a catholic church if he's divorced?

Toots

The annulment only dissolves the marriage in the eyes of the church, you still need to get a divorce to legally dissolve the marriage. My advice would be that your BF should also start divorce proceedings now, and also speak with his parish priest as regards the annulment.

As Tinkerbell said, the church will only grant an annulment in certain circumstances, so a chat with his priest would be a good idea so he will know whether or not he should even try to get one. It takes quite a long time, and it involves interviews, witnesses and also an assessment by a psychologist (or possibly psychiatrist, I always mix those two up.).

I know someone who is in the process of getting an annulment at the moment, and his priest told him to look after the divorce first, and then start the annulment. The divorce has taken 2 years so far, and will probably take another 2. The annulment is 2 years in now also, and he has no idea if and when it will be granted.

tatli_lokma

getting an annulment is by no means easy, and the vatican ultimately decide on it. Generally, asking for an annulment so you can marry someone else you have been living with for a number of years would not be seen as a valid reason - but you might be lucky, but don't count on it . And it is VERY time consuming.

From the experience of a close friend, you can have the sh!t beaten out of you, your husband committing adultery and a child with someone else, and they still say no! instead they recommended catholic marriage councilling!

And as toots rightly says, an annulment only dissolves the religious element of the marriage, not the civil part, so in order to be legally married again you would need a divorce.

otherwoman

Hi All,

Thanks for all the very quick responses. Some points you make scare me and i suppose thats why i wanted to get real live experiences.

He did go to the priest first but was directed straight onto the marriage tribunal. The forms from the Marriage Tribunal mention that it usually takes 2 years and costs 952 euro. After getting it approved by the regional tribunal, it has to be then approved by the Dublin appeals tribunal which i think can take about another year. This time and cost varies hugely with what i'm hearing from this site.

Also, i realise that church annulment does not allow remarrying on its own. He'll need to get a divorce when enough time has passed but that should not be a problem as they already got a legal seperation a few years ago. And i've never found mention in anything i've read that someone who has been divorced cannot be remarried in church as long as the church annulment is granted.

And finally, he is not looking for an annulment just because we may look to marry in the future. His reasons for annulment are completely independent of me. And completely valid from what i've been able to find out, not that there is much information out there.

I'm more worried about the process... it dragging out over years, the cost if more than above. And most of all, the need for him to involve witnesses who are likely to find out all the details of the reasons behind the marriage breakup when he has kept them to himself up until now.

If i tell him not to go ahead, he'll know i'm not being truthful. If i support him, i may end up pushing him into something that i don't know he is that interested it. I just don't know what to say to him so i end up avoiding the subject.

Very confused.

TG

iguana

Toots* wrote: »

The annulment only dissolves the marriage in the eyes of the church, you still need to get a divorce to legally dissolve the marriage.

There is a such thing as a legal annulment of marriage. This can be granted if one party was forced into marriage/was not mentally capable of agreeing to marriage/was physically incapable of consummating the marriage/was homosexual. Unlike a divorce this will mean that legally you were never married, so will free both partners of having to pay maintenance payment, claims on property, pensions or other assets.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/civil-annulment/applying_for_a_civil_annulment_of_marriage

Toots

I'm not sure that details of the marriage breakup are given to the witnesses (I'd be very surprised if they were) The impression I got is that the witnesses are interviewed by the tribunal and asked about elements that they have experienced regarding the marriage, like if they had witnessed arguments or the like I think.

There's not too much info I can find on what is asked of witnesses, because they are required to swear a solemn oath that the information they give is truthful and that they will not discuss the interview outside the tribunal.

otherwoman

Thanks Toots. Good to know.

Turbulent Bill

otherwoman wrote: »

Hi All,

Thanks for all the very quick responses. Some points you make scare me and i suppose thats why i wanted to get real live experiences.

He did go to the priest first but was directed straight onto the marriage tribunal. The forms from the Marriage Tribunal mention that it usually takes 2 years and costs 952 euro. After getting it approved by the regional tribunal, it has to be then approved by the Dublin appeals tribunal which i think can take about another year. This time and cost varies hugely with what i'm hearing from this site.

Also, i realise that church annulment does not allow remarrying on its own. He'll need to get a divorce when enough time has passed but that should not be a problem as they already got a legal seperation a few years ago. And i've never found mention in anything i've read that someone who has been divorced cannot be remarried in church as long as the church annulment is granted.

And finally, he is not looking for an annulment just because we may look to marry in the future. His reasons for annulment are completely independent of me. And completely valid from what i've been able to find out, not that there is much information out there.

I'm more worried about the process... it dragging out over years, the cost if more than above. And most of all, the need for him to involve witnesses who are likely to find out all the details of the reasons behind the marriage breakup when he has kept them to himself up until now.

If i tell him not to go ahead, he'll know i'm not being truthful. If i support him, i may end up pushing him into something that i don't know he is that interested it. I just don't know what to say to him so i end up avoiding the subject.

Very confused.

TG

To be honest you may need to discuss with him openly what he expects/wants out of the whole annulment process. From the above it seems like he wants one but doesn't know what is involved, the time it takes or what the final outcome will be. Proving that a Catholic marriage never existed (which is required for an annulment) could be very difficult, especially with the passing years, so just a divorce could be more pragmatic in the circumstances.

I have no experience or legal/church background in this, just my opinion. Best of luck.

otherwoman

Hi All,

Just to say thanks again for all the replies. Both for you and for anyone else that comes across this thread, i wanted to write a follow up to let you all know what happened.

So i started this thread in January 2010. Boyfriend had gone to priest who sent him to the marriage tribunal. They asked him to fill out the application and send it back. This included basically the history, why he wanted an annulment and names of any witnesses that could support the case. This he did. Think there was also a fee, but as i can't remember what it was, i won't comment on that. Suffice to say, it wasn't prohibitory.

I'll also mention that himself and his ex were on good terms so she had no problems taking part in the process.

So following on from that, he was called in for an interview with marriage tribunal, as was the ex and the witnesses that he had listed. By all accounts, everyone was treated with respect and the process was relatively painless. Once these interviews were over, they wrote to say that the interview transcripts were available to view in case he had any clarification to make to any statement.

The next step was the regional tribunal meeting which took place later in 2010. The annulment was approved by them and they wrote that the decision would go forward for review by the Dublin / National tribunal which was expected to take place towards the end of 2011.

So we put it out of our minds until we go a letter mid way through 2011 stating that there had been no objections to the annulment so it was being approved. You would not believe our surprise.

Was a nice feeling to know that the first time, i could honestly say that i was dating a single man (sounds silly but was a nice feeling).

So all i can say to people going through the process is, as was advised to me, be very open with your boyfriend / girlfriend / partner about what you are doing and why you want to do it and what support you want / need.
Once i opened up to my BF, it seemed silly that i hadn't been able to speak about it before that, but hindsight is great. Also not to worry too much about the process. I know that my BF was probably lucky that his case was fairly clear cut so may have progressed fairly fast but the process was as smooth as some thing like this could be.

So again, thanks for replies and good luck to anybody else out there following this process.

D3PO

Thanks for the update OP.

Excuse my ignorance here but since the topic has been raised what is the benefit of an annulment ?

Apart from I assume you could remarry in a church ceremony rather than a civil one.

tinkerbell

D3PO wrote: »

Thanks for the update OP.

Excuse my ignorance here but since the topic has been raised what is the benefit of an annulment ?

Apart from I assume you could remarry in a church ceremony rather than a civil one.

One benefit I imagine is that you don't have to refer to yourself as "divorced" but I dunno what else. An annulment is very different to a divorce - an annulment is basically saying that the marriage should never have happened in the first place and so is "cancelled". Whereas divorce acknowledges the marriage. Or something, I dunno

otherwoman

Hi, you are both correct. In the churches eyes you were never married therefore are free to marry in the church.

But secondly and i presume the main reason that people go this route is that it basically says that the marriage was never valid in the first place.
For someone who feels that what they had was not a real marriage this can be very important. You are not seperated, you are single.

Yes, this is a nice to have as it means if we ever tie the know down the line then we can do it in a church. But in this day and age, with civil ceremonies becoming so common, him getting a church annulment would not have stopped me marrying him. And even though i think he would have gone down this road even if i wasn't in his life, i'm sure that knowing he might want to get married again made him start the process a bit earlier than he might have had otherwise.

But your right D3PO, in real terms, the only difference it makes is being able to marry in the church and it seems that these days, that is becoming less and less imporatant. So its really everyone to their own.

D3PO

thanks OP dont get me wrong I wasnt having a pop just broadening my knowledge since the topic was here

Heres hoping that I dont need an annulment or a divorce in future

nmc1099

otherwoman wrote: »

Hi All,

Just to say thanks again for all the replies. Both for you and for anyone else that comes across this thread, i wanted to write a follow up to let you all know what happened.

So i started this thread in January 2010. Boyfriend had gone to priest who sent him to the marriage tribunal. They asked him to fill out the application and send it back. This included basically the history, why he wanted an annulment and names of any witnesses that could support the case. This he did. Think there was also a fee, but as i can't remember what it was, i won't comment on that. Suffice to say, it wasn't prohibitory.

I'll also mention that himself and his ex were on good terms so she had no problems taking part in the process.

So following on from that, he was called in for an interview with marriage tribunal, as was the ex and the witnesses that he had listed. By all accounts, everyone was treated with respect and the process was relatively painless. Once these interviews were over, they wrote to say that the interview transcripts were available to view in case he had any clarification to make to any statement.

The next step was the regional tribunal meeting which took place later in 2010. The annulment was approved by them and they wrote that the decision would go forward for review by the Dublin / National tribunal which was expected to take place towards the end of 2011.

So we put it out of our minds until we go a letter mid way through 2011 stating that there had been no objections to the annulment so it was being approved. You would not believe our surprise.

Was a nice feeling to know that the first time, i could honestly say that i was dating a single man (sounds silly but was a nice feeling).

So all i can say to people going through the process is, as was advised to me, be very open with your boyfriend / girlfriend / partner about what you are doing and why you want to do it and what support you want / need.
Once i opened up to my BF, it seemed silly that i hadn't been able to speak about it before that, but hindsight is great. Also not to worry too much about the process. I know that my BF was probably lucky that his case was fairly clear cut so may have progressed fairly fast but the process was as smooth as some thing like this could be.

So again, thanks for replies and good luck to anybody else out there following this process.

Thanks for your information!

My fiance is currently going through the Catholic annulment process here in Ireland. I have done a lot of research and can find very little data concerning statistics here.

In December last (2013), my fiance received an affirmative decision from the Regional Tribunal. It was sent to the National Marriage Appeals Tribunal in January. So far, he has heard nothing. Unfortunately, his ex-wife is strenuously against the granting of a Decree of Nullity. This seems odd to me as they separated 13 years ago with their divorce being granted in 2009 in which his ex-wife was the applicant. They were forced into marriage by both sets of parents when they were quite young due to an unplanned pregnancy. It is all very stressful but not due to the Tribunal staff or process but by the reactions it has provoked in people.

I see that you got a response from the National Marriage Appeals Tribunal within approximately 6 months, that's great! I saw on most websites that decisions at National level can usually take 1 year. I hope that's not the case with my fiance.

Also, does anyone know of how often the National Marriage Appeals Tribunal disagrees with the decision of the Regional Tribunal? I sincerely hope that this doesn't happen. Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!