Prolapsed disc

Annuv · 19-01-2010 7:40pm #1

Hi
I've been diagnosed with a prolapsed disc, a posterior disc bulge at L5/S1
I get intense sciatic pain when sitting down for long periods and also cramping pains in my leg that prevent me from sleeping at night.

My reflexes are diminished in my right leg, and I cannot reach past me knee, whereas before the injury I could reach two inches past my toes. When I am on ant-inflams the pain is not so bad, but as soon as I am off them it gets quite unbearable at times

What frustrates me is that I have this for 7 weeks yet, I have no way of treating it yet, I am just waiting for it to get better which it appears not to be. No one has told me in concrete terms what i need to do, rest or stretch, swim etc

Anyway, I have been referred to a nerosurgeon by my GP where the possibility of surgery will be discussed. From reading online and peoples experiences of it, this something I really hope to avoid. I am hoping to get ultrasound treatment in the meantime

I was wondering, if anyone has experienced the same problem and recovered fully without the need for surgery?

Thanks

Agonist · 19-01-2010 9:21pm

Physio is the way to go with this. Traction can really help with pain, if you aren't too sore to undergo it, and exercises to strengthen the muscles that should be holding that area together help in the longer term.

Chiropractors and osteopaths etc. aren't that different to physiotherapists but they don't have the rigorous scientific research backing them up. It's my experience that acupunture can help with pain relief but not the kind that "realigns your energies". More like jamming needles into your nerves kick starts your body's own analgesics.

I've got muscle relaxants in the past which helped ease the most severe pain. I would never never get surgery for it, personally.

Fixing it from within is usually possible. You may have to change a lot of things in your life: the position you sleep in, the chairs you use, your posture as you work on the computer. I've found that making a habit of lying on the floor on my tummy while extending my back while watching tv or reading has been a big help.

Surgery may help but it ensures that your back will never be 100% right into the future. Also, I understand that the reasons that made your back sore in the first place make it likely that the problems will arise again.

It's a horrible crippling pain to suffer and I hope you get some relief soon.

I'm not a doctor, just letting you know my opinion.

Annuv · 19-01-2010 9:56pm

Hi Agonist, thanks very much for your reply. I've never been really injured before and I'm not used to having an problem that doesn't simply go away with time.
It occurred when I was probably the fittest that I have ever been. I think I may have caused it by weight training, i started feeling the pain the day after squatting.

The hardest part of dealing with the pain so far is that there is no consistency to type of pain I experience, I used to get great relief after a nights rest, now I wake up at 3 in the morning in great pain as if my entire leg is cramped up, sometimes stretching helps sometimes its seems to make it worse.
Anyway I hope to get more direction when I see a physio who is experienced with this sort of thing.

Sorry for the whining

, and thanks for your advice

kildareash · 20-01-2010 1:08pm

Hi Annuv,
I suffered similar injury last May...disc just popped out when I was putting on my socks...we were in the middle of moving house so all the heavy lifting aggrevated an injury I got as a child.

Anyway, I had MRI and met with a surgical consultant. Spent €150 for him to tell me that some discs can take up to three months to heal.
So they wldn't be inclined to do anything until after that time.

The world and his dog told me that there's healed in two weeks, a month, blah blah blah. Don't listen to them! I thought there was something else wrong coz after four weeks I still couldn't sit down for very long. Everyone is different.

I had awful sciatica down my left leg for weeks. Still get tingly feeling in now, eight months later. I couldn't drive for a few weeks. And I've been in a bit of pain since I got caught out in the snowy weather and i was driving for four hours to get home. I thought I wouldn't be able to straighten up when I got home.

I agree with Agonist, muscle relaxants helped greatly. I had to get a second course of time and painkillers. But pretty much managed on paracetamol after that. I also found the osteopath great...I had much more flexibility after a session with him.

I've also had a couple of maintenance physio sessions since.

Good luck, hope you get some relief soon

Annuv · 20-01-2010 1:45pm

Hi kildareash

Good to hear you've made a recovery without surgery. I'm trying to stay positive, but have spent the morning online researching it and there are a lot of people who have suffered for a long time, even after surgery. However I suppose the people who made a full recovery don't tend to be online talking about it.

You're right, there is so much conflicting information out there it's hard to know what to do.

Yeah hopefully time will be the great healer it's supposed to be

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it

kildareash · 20-01-2010 3:44pm

Forgot to say that I used got great relief from the TENS machine...and I was using those heat packs that you can leave on all day.
They were a lifesaver.

Beruthiel · 20-01-2010 3:56pm

Annuv wrote: »

Hi
I've been diagnosed with a prolapsed disc, a posterior disc bulge at L5/S1

I've had back trouble for over 3 years now.
Every time I couldn't take it, I'd go for physio. That seemed to easy it for a while but last June no amount of physio seemed to do anything for me.

I went and got an MRI done and have two prolapsed discs.
One in the exact same place as you and one in at L4/L5.
One disc has degenerated badly and has a chip coming off it.

In a desperate attempt to function I went to a chiropractor. He's a godsend. After two sessions with him I was able to go back to work.
I get twinges, days when it bothers me, but I'm able to work and get on with life.
I have to be aware of it all the time and not do stupid things to aggravate it.
Anyway, I am seeing this chiropractor every 5/6 weeks or so and he's a life saver.

btw - I used to swim every day (the breath stroke) he seemed to think that made it worse as I was arching my back. Front crawl/back stroke is probably better.

Both the chiropractor and the orthopaedic surgeon suggested pilates and walking.

I also have a TENS machine.

Annuv · 20-01-2010 5:24pm

Hi Beruthiel,
I don't know how you went three years with such pain!!

It is interesting that seeing a chiropractor worked for you, my GP and physio warned me not to see anyone that would manipulate the back. I am glad it helps you, it must be some relief!

It's funny you mentioned swimming, I'm just back from going swimming for the first time in years and I only did about 15 lengths of a 25m pool (not in one go!) but I feel good for it. This was all front crawl

Thanks very much for your reply, and good luck with your back in the future

Annuv · 21-01-2010 11:06am

I'm just updating this in case someone in the future has this problem and searches boards for other peoples experiences

I intend asking the neurosurgeon about "Minimally Invasive Oxygen-Ozone Therapy for Lumbar Disk Herniation" - see
http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/reprint/24/5/996

http://www.cxvascular.com/sn-latest-news/spinal-news---latest-news/ozone-treatment-for-herniated-discs-will-soon-become-standard-in-the-usa-kieran-murphy-

It appears to be an alternative to surgery, at least for some lucky people.

I am aware of someone who travelled to mainland Europe to have this done and it helped, however I think they may be going for a second round of treatment soon

I will update this thread with what the neurosurgeon says about it when the time comes

kildareash · 23-01-2010 1:40am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1193248/As-NHS-shake-ditches-spine-surgery-exercise-counselling-actually-good.html

This article was published in the Daily Mail in the UK last year. I thought it was interesting and balanced, as it goes through the pros and cons of a number of different treatments.

Beruthiel · 23-01-2010 9:03am

Annuv wrote: »

Hi Beruthiel,
I don't know how you went three years with such pain!!

It was intermittent.

It is interesting that seeing a chiropractor worked for you, my GP and physio warned me not to see anyone that would manipulate the back.

My physio also warned me.
It's why it took me 3 years to go, I am aware they are not recognized by the medical community.
But when you're reached your limit, you are willing to give just about anything a go.

I am glad it helps you, it must be some relief!

You have no idea!
(Or maybe you do.

)

Queen-Mise · 26-01-2010 12:47pm

I cant recommend my chiropracter enough. The profession is slowly being recognised more and more. And treatment for back pain. Vhi will pay their bills, I think. In the states, they are rated much more highly.

My labour with my son 8 years ago did so much damage to back and pelvis. The pain I have went through over the years has been horrendous. Act up for a while and then calm down again. Second baby really didnt help:-) at the moment one leg is shorter than other and in constant mild pain. As soon as I go to chiropracter it will be fine.

Pilates really helps as it strengthens core and helps to keep back and pelvis supported. Part of my problem is my own fault I should be doing more Pilates :-(

This is my opinion now - whenever you get back training do a lot of core work, it will help this not happen again. When I do exercise doing core is more important than cardio.

Annuv · 26-01-2010 11:31pm

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Pilates really helps as it strengthens core and helps to keep back and pelvis supported. Part of my problem is my own fault I should be doing more Pilates :-(

This is my opinion now - whenever you get back training do a lot of core work, it will help this not happen again. When I do exercise doing core is more important than cardio.

Thanks for the advice Queen-Mise. One thing's for sure if I make a recovery from this, my training will be completely different. I cannot see myself ever doing any weight training that will put pressure on my spine, maybe just body weight stuff and I will take up pilates and yoga to strenthen my core. I feel that neglecting this led to my problem in the first place. Hopefully I will eventually be able to do as much cardio as I was before the injury

jbloggs · 27-01-2010 4:19am

Ignore...

annex · 27-01-2010 5:01am

I have the same problem.
I got a prolapsed disc in 2004 and it bothered me about once or twice a year, then in May 2008 I hurt it again and the prolapse was hitting off the sciatic nerve 24/7.
I went to an Osteopath in Banbridge and I have to say he is brilliant. He flies over from England once a week and he knows his stuff. My mom had a similar back problem and he fixed her in one session, Its taking me longer to get better because I have had it a lot longer but its slowly getting less and less painful

If you want his details let me know and ill PM you.

Queen-Mise · 27-01-2010 9:10pm

Annuv wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Queen-Mise. One thing's for sure if I make a recovery from this, my training will be completely different. I cannot see myself ever doing any weight training that will put pressure on my spine, maybe just body weight stuff and I will take up pilates and yoga to strenthen my core. I feel that neglecting this led to my problem in the first place. Hopefully I will eventually be able to do as much cardio as I was before the injury

There was a couple more things I wanted to say but I was on mobile other night

It is possible to have a certain level of cardio fitness or muscle strength and a weak core. Walking and running do strengthen the core - but not the same way pilates or yoga will.

Premiership clubs are bringing in pilates for the players as it helps prevent injuries.

My last opinion

:D I would recommend Pilates over Yoga, Yoga is harder on the body, although brilliant. Pilates is a lot gentler on the bones and joints and works a treat.

I have often wondered if you brought in someone who is physically very fit - how would they cope in an advanced pilates class - it is very tough, every muscle in your body would be aching afterwards. Even after a couple of weeks - I noticed the extra strength in my body.

Annuv · 28-01-2010 12:06am

Hi Queen-Mise

Thanks for the additional information, I am actually looking forward to doing Pilates

Hopefully I'll recover enough to start it soon
I agree with what you've written, after a season of soccer and GAA I was fit, but I neglected my core and concentrated on compound lifts. I'm paying for it big time now!

gagiteebo · 03-02-2010 10:38pm

Hi guys,
I don't want to take away from the OP problem but you all seem to have hit the nail on the head in terms of what I'm going through. I don't want to ramble on too much but back in October I was lifting some heavy suitcases up the stairs and felt a twinge in my back but thought nothing of it, the pain worsened over the next few days but I thought I just pulled a muscle...after about a week I was in so much pain I lived in fear of sneezing as the pain was unbearable. I went to the doctor who prescribed me valium and other painkillers for a slipped disc and told me to take it easy etc. The pain in my back disappeared but now, 4 months later, I am left with a CONSTANT pain down my lower left leg, right from my buttock to below the knee. I went back to the doctor and I have to say I found him to be quite dismissive and he just gave me more drugs. Of course they helped but I'm finished them now and back to square one. I'm really at the end of my tether, I came home from work today and cried for an hour the pain was so bad. It is affecting my daily life, I can't swim as it makes it worse or go to the gym and as a result of this I feel like crap. I'm a teacher and on my feet all day so this doesn't help either. I come home and get into bed with a hot water bottle pressed against my leg, this is no quality of life and I'm only 27 years old.
I've researched it online and a lot of people seem to suffer with it for years and years, the thought of this brings me to tears again, I just can't bear it anymore.
Please does anyone have any advice, I don't want to go back to that doctor as he was no help whatsoever...I just want my life back...sorry if it seems dramatic to some but I've never experienced pain like it, there is no relief from it.
Thanks guys:)

Agonist · 04-02-2010 12:53am

gagiteebo wrote: »

I come home and get into bed with a hot water bottle pressed against my leg, this is no quality of life and I'm only 27 years old.

It's terrible to hear of people in this kind of excruciating pain. One bit of advice that might help is to put the hot water bottle on your lower back/spine rather than your leg. The muscle spasms and pain are likely to be stemming from there.

gagiteebo · 06-02-2010 2:38pm

Agonist wrote: »

It's terrible to hear of people in this kind of excruciating pain. One bit of advice that might help is to put the hot water bottle on your lower back/spine rather than your leg. The muscle spasms and pain are likely to be stemming from there.

Believe me I've tried every which way possible but still don't get any relief...yesterday was the worst pain so far, I took 8 solpadeine just to get me through the pain, didn't take them all at once obviously, but I don't know what to do at this stage

Going to the physio next week to see if I get any relief...fingers crossed! If I don't get any relief from this I don't know what to do next....

MellHell.... · 09-02-2010 10:33pm

This is what I ve learnt. I know how bad it is. The disc can bulge slip prolapse collapse this can give pain down the leg across the back into the foot burning sensation pin needles etc etc.
Sometimes the disc doesnt move and the nucleus section leaks out into the spinal column (3 sections) the immune system then attacks this biochemical material and interferes with the nerve causing pain scatia etc ( they dont know much about this and cant do much either ) you need to get an mri scan to see what the problem is. Hopefully its clear to see and the problem is related.
They have taken people of the street and given them MRI s and found Bulging discs and pain, bulging discs and no pain. Pain and no bulging discs.
I went to my physio, he should of known, he didnt. I went to my GP he knew straight away and sent me Santy Northwood imaging (MRI scanners galore I bargained told them I was gonna go to belfast, got it for €250).
The disc s settle for some people and pain goes away others it doesnt, some people have growths on the bones in the spine.
(sometimes)The Disc bulges and puts pressure on the nerve causing all the problems if it doesnt go back in they trim it. Nowadays its micro surgery(microdiscectomy) and not a bad procedure, check it out on you tube.
If the pain is real bad get a GP who will listen and is fimilar with this I used Difene to kill pain and bring down any inflamation and I took Solpadol (these are very strong perscription drugs and are hard on the body) as well I drank some wine to keep my blood thin Im not sure how it helped I think it was with inflamation.I noticed this when I was hung over the pain wasnt as bad.
Get Googling about back pain theres loads of info out there and get a open minded professional GP, get a medical card or health insurance get an mri and either neurosurgical clinic or specialist Beaumont Mater in dublin.
I needed a good GP a quick MRI, Painkillers, a clinic (a specialising surgeon ), I had to get to see them quick appointment or casuality. Look into it (on the web).
Get back to me if your in ribbons, so am I but it "looks like" Im gonna get it sorted.

scargill · 09-02-2010 10:56pm

Hi Annuv,

Reading your post brought me back about 5 years. I had the very same problem. I had twinges on and off for a few months, I slipped on the stairs one evening and ended up with the very same injury as you.

The L5/S1 disc bulge seems to be common enough. My experience.....

It took a while to get it properly identified. I attended a sports injury physio on and off for a while but it was a bit hit and miss and didn't really seem to help that much.

There was regular pain but not enough to stop me going to work or getting around. Walking really seemed to help me a lot - I know it doesn't make sense when you are in pain but it worked for me initially.

It got worse over a number of months - to the stage where I couldn't get out of bed or dress myself. Over the space of a few weeks I was attending doctors - with a view to arranging for surgery to relieve the pain.
I was given valium injections on a few different occasions. Fantastic relief! I was able to sleep properly and move around a bit. I was off work for about 10 days or so.

About 3 days before I was due to go to Tallaght hospital to see a specialist the pain went away.

I just woke up one morning and there was absolutely no pain. It was like flipping a switch. I could move freely and was completely pain free.

The doctors reckoned that whatever fragments of disc were touching the spine/nerves had dissolved and disappeared. Apparently this happens in most cases.

From beginning to end the whole experience probably lasted about 4 months - with only about 2 weeks of it where I was bed bound.

Just passing this on - your experience may be different - but I hope it clears up for you like it did for me soon.

If you are having difficulty sleeping perhaps you could discuss better pain relief with your doctor? The valium I was given allowed me to relax when sitting down and allowed me sleep at night. It stopped the spasms and helped prevent further aggravation of the injury. See what your doctor suggests.

MellHell.... · 09-02-2010 11:03pm

Is that the only time it ever bothered you...............

gagiteebo · 09-02-2010 11:07pm

scargill wrote: »

Hi Annuv,

Reading your post brought me back about 5 years. I had the very same problem. I had twinges on and off for a few months, I slipped on the stairs one evening and ended up with the very same injury as you.

The L5/S1 disc bulge seems to be common enough. My experience.....

It took a while to get it properly identified. I attended a sports injury physio on and off for a while but it was a bit hit and miss and didn't really seem to help that much.

There was regular pain but not enough to stop me going to work or getting around. Walking really seemed to help me a lot - I know it doesn't make sense when you are in pain but it worked for me initially.

It got worse over a number of months - to the stage where I couldn't get out of bed or dress myself. Over the space of a few weeks I was attending doctors - with a view to arranging for surgery to relieve the pain.
I was given valium injections on a few different occasions. Fantastic relief! I was able to sleep properly and move around a bit. I was off work for about 10 days or so.

About 3 days before I was due to go to Tallaght hospital to see a specialist the pain went away.

I just woke up one morning and there was absolutely no pain. It was like flipping a switch. I could move freely and was completely pain free.

The doctors reckoned that whatever fragments of disc were touching the spine/nerves had dissolved and disappeared. Apparently this happens in most cases.

From beginning to end the whole experience probably lasted about 4 months - with only about 2 weeks of it where I was bed bound.

Just passing this on - your experience may be different - but I hope it clears up for you like it did for me soon.

If you are having difficulty sleeping perhaps you could discuss better pain relief with your doctor? The valium I was given allowed me to relax when sitting down and allowed me sleep at night. It stopped the spasms and helped prevent further aggravation of the injury. See what your doctor suggests.

That sounds about right

I pray every night that I'll wake up and be pain free...

scargill · 10-02-2010 12:23pm

MellHell.... wrote: »

Is that the only time it ever bothered you...............

I presume that is directed to me?

To be honest I had "a bad back" on a number of occasions leading up to the slip on the stairs over a number of years. Never really sure what it was and never got it looked into. General lack of fitness was probably what it was down to.

I used to think that people who complained of back pain were moaners!! Until you get it you never really know how bad it can be!

I still get the odd twinge now and again - lifting a toddler mostly!!

I do tend to try to mind it now though - rarely lifting heavy things and careful about bending the knees, etc!

kildareash · 10-02-2010 1:27pm

scargill wrote: »

Walking really seemed to help me a lot - I know it doesn't make sense when you are in pain but it worked for me initially.

Walking around really helped for me too. I still get very achey and sore if i sit in the same position for too long. Find moving around really helps.

Annuv · 10-02-2010 7:39pm

kildareash wrote: »

Walking around really helped for me too. I still get very achey and sore if i sit in the same position for too long. Find moving around really helps.

Me too, this morning I woke up with sciatica (as usual) but it was a little worse than the previous days, and I had a very bad limp. I set out on a hour and a half long walk and after about 40 minutes I had no pain and no limp (my reflexes are still a little diminished in the leg though)
Of course, walking like this every morning is not practical in the long run really

Overall I seem to be improving a little, but i have to remember that I am still on anti inflamms etc. According to the surgeon I am a surgical candidate but I am holding off for now to see if there is any improvement. One thing I've learned is to take it week by week, not day by day when monitoring your progress. This is because one day you could be great and the next day you can be in a lot of pain.

coach129 · 14-01-2011 8:24pm

Hi, i am wondering does anybody have anyh information about getting back surgery in europe under the E111 form? I need a discectomy in my lower back and it looks like it'll be years before i can get it done her