What's the Legal Situation

riverbank

If an employee drives a car that is not taxed or insurance into the company car park. Am I legally bound to report her to the authorities?

dats_right

riverbank wrote: »

If an employee drives a car that is not taxed or insurance into the company car park. Am I legally bound to report her to the authorities?

No, you are under absolutely no positive obligation to report. Besides, how do you know for sure she is not insured? The mere fact that the discs in the windscreen appear to be expired or are non-existant does not necessarily mean she is untaxed/uninsured. It is possible that: 1) discs have been lost or stolen. 2) discs have been recieved but never placed in windscreen. 3) she is covered under another policy e.g. has open driving cover. 4) car has recently been purchased or re-used after a period of being off-road and she is awaiting new discs. These are just some of the many possible lawful explanations.

In any event, it really isn't a matter in which you need or should be getting involved, that is unless she drives as part of her employment as opposed to merely communting to work and is obliged to maintain a policy of insurance as part of her conditions of employment.

riverbank

Thanks for the reply, yes that all makes perfect sense but as an added complication this person has boasted to everyone (Seems only a matter of time before she boasts to the wrong person) that she doesn't bother with tax as she never gets stopped and it's a waste of money (her words not mine). So does "common knowledge" come into it? and we have the added worry that if she hits another car in the car park we not only already know that she is not insured but we also know that she has no finances to be sued in a civil action. In the case of an accident in the car park would our own car insurance pay out if they got to hear that we knew she was not insured.
In the UK if your car is off the road (untaxed) you have to declare it as such and I think it is an offense to own an untaxed vehicle without declaring such. In Czech where I lived for a few years if your car was untaxed you had to hand in your number plates to the local police.

dermot_sheehan

You can of course contact the local garda station if you wish,
you are under no obligation to however.

PCPhoto

riverbank wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, yes that all makes perfect sense but as an added complication this person has boasted to everyone (Seems only a matter of time before she boasts to the wrong person) that she doesn't bother with tax as she never gets stopped and it's a waste of money (her words not mine). So does "common knowledge" come into it? and we have the added worry that if she hits another car in the car park we not only already know that she is not insured but we also know that she has no finances to be sued in a civil action. In the case of an accident in the car park would our own car insurance pay out if they got to hear that we knew she was not insured.
In the UK if your car is off the road (untaxed) you have to declare it as such and I think it is an offense to own an untaxed vehicle without declaring such. In Czech where I lived for a few years if your car was untaxed you had to hand in your number plates to the local police.

we have the MIBI (Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland) for claims against uninsured/unidentified vehicles.

www.mibi.ie

if you are really concerned - maybe contact your employer and/or the gardai ...yes some people are avoiding paying due to other financial committments - and if/when caught will more than likely get a slap on the wrist (small fine) .... she shouldn't be driving without tax/insurance and faces legal action IF caught.

Victor

If you are in the person's chain of command, can they be repremanded for bringing the business into disrepute ("Hi, welcome to Acme Nuclear Sales, we sell teh best reactors, but don't pay tax") and/or prevented from bringing the vehicle onto the property.

thebiglad

Who is going to pay if she has a mishap with a colleagues car in the car park - tell HR and she should be banned from car park - although of course this opens up a whole new issue for HR - still arguably duty of care to the other employees suggests that they should take action.

Also why not report them to the Garda - is there a crimeline like with drink drive - try the insurance fraud line and take it from there.

Anyone driving uninsured deserves all they get

periperi

WOW! nazi germany springs to mind. None of your buisness, theres a reason informants are called rats. My heart sinks when i see firstly the question asked and then actually answered! Shame on you.

riverbank

periperi wrote: »

WOW! nazi germany springs to mind. None of your buisness, theres a reason informants are called rats. My heart sinks when i see firstly the question asked and then actually answered! Shame on you.

I can see where you are coming from, although a bit overstated. The original question was badly worded, I was looking for an answer as to where we would stand legally as far as insurance is concerned if it is not reported and an accident occurred. If anyone had wanted to rat on this person (as you so nicely put it) to the authorities it would have been done before now.

thebiglad

periperi wrote: »

WOW! nazi germany springs to mind. None of your buisness, theres a reason informants are called rats. My heart sinks when i see firstly the question asked and then actually answered! Shame on you.

So you are happy to pay an extra €50 insurance premium per year to fund uninsured drivers??

Are you also aware that if they do collide with your car and you claim from your insurance your No Claim Bonus will be lost - the insurer cannot recover their outlay. If you claim from MIBI there is an excess which I believe is £350.

TheNog

riverbank wrote: »

If an employee drives a car that is not taxed or insurance into the company car park. Am I legally bound to report her to the authorities?

You can report the driver to the local Garda station where you work. You dont even have to give your name or address, just the details of the car and the drivers name. Afterall why should this person not be paying for tax and insurance when everyone else does? You are not obliged to report it.

periperi wrote: »

WOW! nazi germany springs to mind. None of your buisness, theres a reason informants are called rats. My heart sinks when i see firstly the question asked and then actually answered! Shame on you.

If people who give information to the Gardai are called rats then how do you think crimes are solved? How do you think some drunk drivers/dangerous drivers/welfare fraud are caught? All of these things cost the taxpayers money.


TBH its a very immature opinion

periperi

Firstly this woman has not commited a crime, before you jump all over that look up the defination of a crime. If she has an accedent and causes damage then she will have to deal with that, its her responsability. On the tax issue just cause everyone else has it is no arguement why she should.
I dont see how you can be held responsable for your employee not having insurance, as i see it, its between her and the Guards/ courts.
I would also like to appolagise to the more sencetive members for my use of the word rat, not a word i use normaly but found myself angered and saddened by the tone of the thread.

Reloc8

Driving without a valid tax disc is a crime.

Driving in a public place in circumstances where no insurer would be liable for damage or injury to a third party is a crime. It doesn't matter whether there is an accedent or not (S. 56 RTA 1961).

Notwithstanding this there is no obligation to report a person committing either offence even if you are there employer.

It is however also a crime to permit a vehicle which you own to be driven without insurance. If this was a company car and she wasn't insured on it you would have to take steps to prevent her driving and report her if she did.

TheNog

periperi wrote: »

Firstly this woman has not commited a crime, before you jump all over that look up the defination of a crime.

She is commiting offences under the Road Traffic Acts

If she has an accedent and causes damage then she will have to deal with that, its her responsability.

Why do you think this woman would take on that responsibility if she cant even be bothered to tax and insure her car?

Also if she was to be involved in a collision there would be a greater likelihood of her leaving the scene without giving her details. What if the other person in the collision was injured? What if she hit your parked and unattended vehicle? How would you feel then?

On the tax issue just cause everyone else has it is no arguement why she should.

But she should have her car taxed as it is an offence not to do so.

I dont see how you can be held responsable for your employee not having insurance, as i see it, its between her and the Guards/ courts.

No one said its the employers responsibility to report if she is driving her own car. I would consider it a civic duty to report her.

I would also like to appolagise to the more sencetive members for my use of the word rat, not a word i use normaly but found myself angered and saddened by the tone of the thread.

periperi

Nog, as far as im concerned whether she has insurance is a matter between her and her conscience. The tax issue, do we not have the right to travel freely, yes or no?

You feel it would be your civic duty to report her to the guards, if she was your friend or a family member would you report her?

Hooch

periperi wrote: »

You feel it would be your civic duty to report her to the guards, if she was your friend or a family member would you report her?

You do have a right to travel freely. However driving an MPV on a public road is not a right. You are licenced to drive on the road, without which you have no right to travel by an MPV on it. Therefore your tax also allows you to drive on a public road. Without it you have no right.

freefromgov

Well, if they had no valid insurance in place wouldn't the Lease holder of the property be vicariously liable in the event of a mishap... ?

dats_right

freefromgov wrote: »

Well, if they had no valid insurance in place wouldn't the Lease holder of the property be vicariously liable in the event of a mishap... ?

No. As another poster has already stated, the MIBI covers innocent victims for loss or damage caused by uninsured drivers, pursuant to the various agreements. This scheme is funded by the various insurance companies based on their respective shares of the motor insurance market in the State.

Victor

periperi wrote: »

Nog, as far as im concerned whether she has insurance is a matter between her and her conscience.

So she runs someone down, puts them in a wheelchair for life and you think its simply a matter for her conscience?

Conscience won't give the victim an income or a life.

freefromgov

dats_right wrote: »

No. As another poster has already stated, the MIBI covers innocent victims for loss or damage caused by uninsured drivers, pursuant to the various agreements. This scheme is funded by the various insurance companies based on their respective shares of the motor insurance market in the State.

I'm sure you are correct however that's just a choice ... the leaseholder can still be held liable if it can be shown that they have the mens rea......

periperi

Victor wrote: »

So she runs someone down, puts them in a wheelchair for life and you think its simply a matter for her conscience?

Conscience won't give the victim an income or a life.

My point is it is not up to us to decide or inform the Guards. I dont approve of some things people do, i keep my mouth shut its not my buisness.

uberwolf

periperi wrote: »

Nog, as far as im concerned whether she has insurance is a matter between her and her conscience. The tax issue, do we not have the right to travel freely, yes or no?

it's not travel tax, it's not road tax, it's motor tax. You want a motor on public roads, pay your tax

periperi wrote: »

My point is it is not up to us to decide or inform the Guards. I dont approve of some things people do, i keep my mouth shut its not my buisness.

you & I pay more tax to subsidise those who refuse, dodge or scam. So it is your business, they may as well be taking money straight out of your pocket

riverbank

periperi wrote: »

My point is it is not up to us to decide or inform the Guards. I dont approve of some things people do, i keep my mouth shut its not my buisness.

You were the one that mentioned the Nazis, I seem to remember the Germans using that excuse after the camps were discovered.

periperi

riverbank wrote: »

You were the one that mentioned the Nazis, I seem to remember the Germans using that excuse after the camps were discovered.

And nazi youth informing on ther own family, you think that was ok?
Of course not, that as you know was what i was refering to.

periperi

uberwolf wrote: »

it's not travel tax, it's not road tax, it's motor tax. You want a motor on public roads, pay your tax
Ok you appear to think thats just and correct, me i know this is my country and believe i should be able travel across this land without paying an unjust tax.


you & I pay more tax to subsidise those who refuse, dodge or scam. So it is your business, they may as well be taking money straight out of your pocket

The tax is taking money out of your pocket.

dermot_sheehan

This thread has already violated Goodwin's law and has run it's course.