Compressor/Gate query

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Hi all,
I am seeking more advice, I dont know what i would do without this forum!

Long story short, the band i play in are starting to get gigs in bigger pubs, we have one in march in a pretty big open area with a high roof. For this we are going to have to mic up all the drums (we usually just do mic up the kick), we done this once before, but without a gate, it sounded very sloppy. The toms were resonating a lot, the overall sound wasnt tight at all. I was thinking of getting this one, 4 channels for the 3 toms and kick. What do ye think? Thanks in advance

godfrey

From an old road dog:
Rule no1: do not compress live drums in a small setup like this. it will exaggerate resonance problems and bring you closer to feedback. Also, it will do nothing to enhance your sound in this particular situation.

I don't have experience with the Samson gates, and I'm not enjoying saying this but the Behringer 4-ch gate is not all that bad.

Hope this helps ~

g

Savman

Ungated drums ftw!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

is this the one you mean? one of my mates has that in how studio, but he doesnt use it, he just uses the compressors in pro tools. i read some reviews of it online, they were saying it was good, when it worked! and that the build quality wasnt great, that put be off it straight away.

We probably wouldnt be compressing the drums, but using the gate to shut the channel to tighten the sound. Id probably get one of my mates who knows how to use gates properly to set it up for us, last thing we want is to spend 30 mins hitting toms in a full pub

Savman wrote: »

Ungated drums ftw!

in the end we just turned the mics on the toms off as they were so bad

Savman

Mic'ing up the full kit will rob your PA of all or any available headroom, so thread carefully here. Gates and Compressors are a science in themselves and getting good results does not happen instantly. You might want to re-think whether this is really worth the hassle for one gig or if you want to give it a proper shot, in which case you'll want a better comp (dbx or KlarkTeknik, for example) and you'll need decent mics and a whole lot of patience.

End result: the drums will only be a few dB louder. If they sound 'floppy', then it sounds like a tuning issue tbh, because no mic will magically transform dodgy source material into some super-polished studio sound.

Same goes for anything, stick a mic in front of it, if it sounds like garbage, fix the source until it sounds better. Adding more toys to the signal chain is only making it better sounding garbage.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Thanks for the info!
I missed out on a dbx compressor a few months ago on adverts, was sickened i didnt get it. The tom mics aren't ours, they are AKG, cant remember the exact model off the top of my head, and we have an AKG D112 on the kick. The main reason i wanted to mic the kit is because the back line will have to go through the PA. anyway, that gig is a good bit away yet!

PMI

Depends on your rig and what power your pumping....

Whats the venue and we can let ya know any pointers if we know it

Always gate if its a rock n roll setup but compression I wouldnt bother with until your rolling 3-10k into a pub/club.

The old Behringer quad gate was good and I think there is an easy enough ARX version around now but remember there is a reason why Drawmers and BSS Gates are around

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

PMI wrote: »

Depends on your rig and what power your pumping....

Whats the venue and we can let ya know any pointers if we know it

Always gate if its a rock n roll setup but compression I wouldnt bother with until your rolling 3-10k into a pub/club.

The old Behringer quad gate was good and I think there is an easy enough ARX version around now but remember there is a reason why Drawmers and BSS Gates are around

the venue it Club 3 in roscommon town, its part of the Coachmans Inn, club 3 is only open at weekends. I know a very experienced drummer, who has toured loads in pretty big bands on the wedding/club scene, he was telling us to get a gate. If i could get him to come to the sound check i would be very happy

PMI

Not sure of that place only know Jacks in Roscommon?!?

the main reason for the gates is that, provided they are set right it will allow you to push the PA without causing you grief with toms feeding back etc...

What PA are you running?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

PMI wrote: »

Not sure of that place only know Jacks in Roscommon?!?

the main reason for the gates is that, provided they are set right it will allow you to push the PA without causing you grief with toms feeding back etc...

What PA are you running?

its 30 second walk from jacks! its around half the size of the NEW (smaller!) jacks

we have a 16 channel Allen and Heath mix wizzard -> t.amp 2400 watt power amp -> HK premium pro 500 watt bins x2 and 400 tops x2. Not a massive system by any means

amp http://www.thomann.de/ie/t-amp_ta2400.htm
tops http://www.thomann.de/ie/hk_audio_premium_pro_12.htm
bins http://www.thomann.de/ie/hk_audio_premium_pro_18_s.htm

markwho

Ye can try out my quadgate if ye want that night.
It'll cost ye though :P

PMI

Well hands down Gates are going to help anyway regardless of venue etc... so go buy um

To be honest I would go for as good of a sound as possible without micing the kit 1st get everyone to play for the bands sake and not their own self worth

youve only got 1k of bottom end and pushing anything around 40-80hz is going to suck most of that power straight away from the amp etc..

If your running crossovers try and xover the subs at 110hz so as to not let to much into into the bins which will make them more efficient and you will be able to possibly push them slightly more than usual.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

PMI wrote: »

Well hands down Gates are going to help anyway regardless of venue etc... so go buy um

To be honest I would go for as good of a sound as possible without micing the kit 1st get everyone to play for the bands sake and not their own self worth

youve only got 1k of bottom end and pushing anything around 40-80hz is going to suck most of that power straight away from the amp etc..

If your running crossovers try and xover the subs at 110hz so as to not let to much into into the bins which will make them more efficient and you will be able to possibly push them slightly more than usual.

thanks, great post.

Our cross overs are built into the bins im afraid, so it cant be adjusted. The low cut filter on the desk cuts at 100hz (I think), would it be a good idea to use that on the kick and floor tom? im assuming the two rack toms will be above 100hz.
Im keeping my eyes open for an active Xover and another power amp on adverts so we could run the bins and tops independently.

madtheory

This is getting confusing...

So... turn down the bass going in to the bins, and then turn up the bins, which will bring it back to the same amount of bass again? Doesn't make sense...

Changing the crossover point is not such a good idea, it's supposed to be set at the point where the speakers are most efficient, and you need to set it in a freefield envionment using an SPL meter and all that lark. If you lower the frequency, you're asking the tops to do more work than they're rated for. Result? Blown woofers.

If you want a louder PA without changing the amps and speakers, get a Behringer UltraCurve (seriously). With a measurement mic you can use it to graphic the PA far more efficiently than by ear, so you have max gain before feedback. You can tweak the top end a little then, to suit your taste and to cover the room evenly. There's a decent limiter on it also, set it for "louder". Stay out of the red on all meters, and you'll have a clean, efficient PA.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

simplest solution is to approach it from a drum view.

use dual ply dead heads on the toms , and moon gel if need be , and tune em to sustain less.

heads like coated emporers or powertsroke 4 top heads.

and emporer or ambassador - coated bottoms .

most drummers who mic up all the time use less resonant heads for the reasons you are talking about .
thick heads top and bottom tune low for depth and punch , or higher for more attack and sing .

the thick heads kill off the dodgy sustain and hum .


to be honest , I recokn kick and overheads only , that favour the toms rather than the cymbals in placement would be better all round for you instead of close miking .

PMI

Your Bins are set at 150hz crossover so its not to bad, dont put in the 100hz filter as you will lose any sub end you might be able to generate.

As said above maybe dont go for close micing go for the old jazz club way... Kick and 2 overheads... and maybe gate the kick

To the poster 2 above.... I was just trying to make sure there wasnt to much information getting into the bins which will make them less efficient I wasnt saying turn up bins etc... Ive heard bands who buy bins and run them full range thinking its making a difference

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Thanks for all the help! Will prob just put a mic on the kick and an overhead.