Moving dog on from crate-Help???

simba15

hi all, We have a gs 7 months and we have been trying to house train her for the last 4 months since we got her.
Immediately began with the crate in the utility room and she never soils this. Also she will usually sit at the back door and paw the keys to let us know when she wants to go to the toilet. Accidents were happening less and less and we could usually put any down to us not hearing her or forgetting to let her out soon after feeding.

So about 3 weeks ago we decided to leave the crate open and give her the freedom of downstairs overnight. the first night, there were 3 wees and a poo on kitchen floor. The following 3 nights, there was nothing!!:) We thought we had cracked it, but, in the last 1-2 weeks, she seems to have gone backward! One night she was only on her own for a few hours as my partner works shifts and let her out in the garden at 5am ( I had let her out at 11.30pm) and when i got up about 9am there were 2poos and a number of wees. One morning there were actually 4 poos!:eek:

We are sure we are feeding her the correct amount every day and usually around 6-7 pm. She will be fine for the evening, letting us know she wants to use the toilet. We let her out last thing before bed at about 11pm and she still dirties during the night.
The last straw was sat evening when we had friends coming over. before they arrived, I went downstairs and she was sitting at the backdoor. I praised her and let her out for a few mins, then let her back in and went upstairs for less than 5 mins when the doorbell went. I brought our visitors into the kitchen and we were met with a horrible smell. The dog had done a poo on the kitchen floor- less than 5 mins after being outside! We could put this down to something maybe distracting her in the backgarden but in the last 2 weeks she has poo'd or/and wee'd in the kitchen at least once everyday so we feel like we're trying to make excuses for her.

We really want her to be a house dog and she has attended obedience classes and does lots of tricks on command, even running to back door when we say "wee- wees". We just don't know what we are doing wrong and have put her back in the crate at night for the last few nights. Also, she seems to know that dirtying the kitchen floor is bad because when we come downstairs, instead of being her usual happy self there to greet us, she sits in her crate!

Would greatly appreciate any help and advice or if you think we are doing something wrong please tell us. The crate is in a small room off the kitchen and when we leave her out at night she still sleeps in her crate but wees and poos in the kitchen. Would it help if we placed the crate in the kitchen so she might see this as her sleeping area?? The kitchen is quite big so i think she would still mess in the kitchen and she has alwys had access to a hall which she has never messed in.
Thanks in advance.:)

star-pants

simba15 - I edited your post to put in paragraphs & capital letters at the start of your sentences. I mean no offence by this - but just it was a hard block of text to try and read.
If it's easier to read, it's easier for people to read your problem & give advice

Sigma Force

If you are feeding her between 6 and 7 pm she's bound to poop at night.
Perhaps gradually start feeding her earlier and if she still needs a second meal earlier again eg one in the morning one in the afternoon and that's it.

If I fed my adult dogs at 6 or 7 pm I would be guaranteed to be confronted with poop and wee first thing in the morning so they're fed in the morning, if they do get a treat later on they are usually fine but if they got a treat later on in the evening the little one especially couldn't hold it to the next morning.

At 7 months she may not have full control of his bladder some dogs bladders don't 'mature' until 8 months or even some take longer.

Do understand that she can't help it, she's still a pup so no harm in keeping up the crate training for now. Also if not already pop outside with her in the garden to make sure she has done her wees and poos that way you know she's deffo. done it and won't be bursting for at least 5 to 6 hours.

It's hard enough for some adults to hold it in for 8 hours lol so dogs can find it hard too, it should become easier though.

Our 7 month old pup is still in his crate at night and sometimes will look to go out in the middle of the night, he doesn't mess about he genuinely needs to do a poo/wee, usually if he's had too many treats that evening or if he's didn't have as busy a day as usually. Sometimes he's so tired he'll sleep right through.

It's only a bit of poop just keep a mop and bucket handy and windows open lol. I know it unpleasant for visitors walking in but just say scuse the smell the dogs just going through a difficult time in his toilet training.
I'm sure visitors have done worse themselves lol.

The fact she lets you know he needs to go is great, praise the good and ignore the bad, don't react when she does poo/wee ignoring her will be enough for her to get the message.
No harm in doing more obedience classes too, putting the crate in the kitchen might help but perhaps someone else can suggest something there.

It does get easier so hang in there.

TooManyDogs

You might be simply giving her too much room too quickly. Would you be able to cordon off a small sectoin around her crate so she can leave the crate open but not have access to the rest of downstairs? That way there's still an incentive to hold onto her wee's and poo's until you can let her out. Gradually then increase the area you give her when she has had at least a week of dry nights. You should eventually be able to give her the whole of downstairs.

I'd also supervise her when she's doing her business in the back so you can praise her when she does it outside, it could help give her incentive to hang on if she knows she'll get something really yummy for doing her wee's and poo's outside.

LucyBliss

Do you think maybe you're not letting her out for long enough when she does go out last thing at night? Does someone stay out in the garden with her to make sure she does something before she comes back in? I found that with my two, they're a year and a half now, sometimes they'd go straight away down the garden and other times they'd be sniffing about and generally doing everything but their toilet business! I was always amazed by how on a nice balmy summer night, they'd be done in no time, but on a cold night they'd linger as long as they could and me like a idiot keeping an eye on them in the garden.

Also, I wouldn't feed her past 6pm for a while. She's only 7 months. She's still only learning and growing. I crate trained my two dogs. I kept them in the crate at night until they were 10 months old because I knew by them that they'd poop up a storm at night otherwise. They were good dogs, just that some things were taking a while to sink in. There werea few accidents from time to time for the first month or two but nothing major. Before Christmas, I let them try sleeping upstairs in my room and there's been no problems.
So it takes a bit of time because they're learning so much all at once at that age. That's fantastic that she knows so much already though. She'll get there if you're consistent and find a routine that works.

spurscormac

Is there any reason to give her the freedom of downstairs ?

My fella is 21 months and he still sleeps in his crate (playpen) all night. The gate is closed, so he can't get out.

I never even considered giving him the run of downstairs during the night - he has that in the daytime when there's people in the house.

Whispered

As others said, could you gradually increase her area instead of having it be all or nothing?

Maybe bring her feeding back to earlier in the day, if you can.

Could you consider not getting rid of the crate? It's not just to confine a dog but to give them their own little safe den and she might miss it. I know when mine went, my dog started sleeping in very strange places. He would lie for hours under the clothes horse and if that wasn't there he'd get up on the chairs, which were pushed under the table (he's not a small dog so that was a squeeze!).

simba15

Hi all, Thank you so much for your replies.

We have come up with some ideas from some of your suggestions. Firstly, we will try giving the dog her dinner earlier in the evening.
Also, we could try leaving the door of her crate open at night and close the utility room door, so she has a bit more freedom but in a much smaller space than all of downstairs. Then gradually give her more space if this works.
We do try to watch her going to the toilet in the garden and when she comes back into the house she sits and waits with her nose almost touching the fridge, waiting for her treat! She knows exactly where we keep them and on occasion has even scratched at the keys to go out into the garden, sniffed about a little bit and come back in without weeing and gone straight to the fridge! So when she does this we say "wee wees" and she turns around and goes to the toilet in the garden. We will keep up with the treats and maybe give smaller ones so these don't cause her too need the toilet later at night.
Also, our garden is quite big so there are many possibilities for her to get distracted if we let her out unsupervised. This is probably what happened the evening we had visitors. She was only out for 5 minutes. Could anyone suggest how long to let her out for last thing at night so as to make sure she goes.
Some have suggested keeping the crate but she is such a big dog we thought this might be unfair? Also, my fiancee works nights quite frequently and I would like to know that I have some security if anyone tried to brake in. She gets quite vocal when the postman comes!! We will however stick with it for another few months and try all of the suggestions made.
If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know. Already I feel much better about the situation and see that we were probly expecting too musc too soon with her. Just so unpleasant picking up all those poos every morning:P
Thanks again everyone for suggestions made:)

dublindogcare

She also could be reaching sexual maturity - and this period can often be very hard to handle for both owner and dog. And many dogs are know to 'forget' their house training and revert to doing their business inside again im afiad.
Stick with it , it will soon pass.
Is she spayed yet?