Swim Plan

NeedsTraining

Hi Folks,

Anyone recommend a good swim plan?

I would consider myself an average swimmer and obviously the intention is to improve.

Target is a few Sprints this year and hopefully an Olympic triathlon.

Looking for a plan to bring me comfortably up to Oly distance.

Cheers,

NT

tunney

NeedsTraining wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Anyone recommend a good swim plan?

I would consider myself an average swimmer and obviously the intention is to improve.

Target is a few Sprints this year and hopefully an Olympic triathlon.

Looking for a plan to bring me comfortably up to Oly distance.

Cheers,

NT

IMHO you can't plan swimming in the same way you can running for newbies. There is no Hal Hidgeon plan that spells out the yardage required. While running has a strong technique element to it for swimming its all about technique (up to a point). When the jumps in swimming come it would invalidate any programme based on old form/times.

Perhaps a better approach than a Hidgeon style plan would be to say "I'm going to swim 4 times (or whatever) a week and each session will be an hour long". Then at start of the week draw up your swim sets that you think will match the number and length of your sessions.

I'd look at having a long swim session, a strength swim session and a speed swim session. Regardless of the type of session start off with a good warm up and have a reasonable cool down.

The actual make up of the main sets depends on your level of swimming. And will change as your standard does. But I think the following guidelines hold true:
Long sessions - steady sets, not looking for the reps to be particular long just a lot of them. No 800s, a good few 400s, plenty of 100s, 200s. Recovery between resps should be no more than 30 seconds for 400s and 15 for 100s.

Strength sessions - ditch the paddles, there seems to be a huge increase in the number of people using these this year. Very occasionally use them but the real strength work is band work. Take an old inner tube and tie it around your legs. Use a pull buoy with it as well but occasionally do band only work. 100s and 200s with this. Very good strength work.

Speeds sessions - 50s and 100s with the odd 200 at pace. recovery times are low and the pace is high but rarely sprinting. Throw in some drills and skills before you do the faster stuff and make sure the main set has a longer aerobic warm up section before smacking it.

The big thing I think in swim training is quality and variety of the individual swim sets.

interested

all good advice from Tunney there to be honest - below is probably way too long winded but I think its worth mentioning

Ive been looking a little closer at swim session plans and training cycles recently for other reasons - but its worth making the distinction between swimming training and training to swim in triathlons.

Swim training - typically sessions will vary but can include a short enough warm up, some stroke improvement skill work (if the group is advanced there may be very little stroke work done - its often done in short periods between training cycles), a couple of main sets and then a swim down - it wont just focus on f/s (400 IM'ers are effectively distance or middle distance swimmers and need to do sets like 10*200's fly or 24*200's (6 fly, 6 back, 6 breast and 6 free .. you get the idea)) and the sessions will vary depending on the time of the year or training cycle. It all depends on the swimmers (some clubs have the luxury and space to place long, middle and sprint swimmers in different lanes and in different groups across a pool and they all have different sets to do). Base periods for long distance swimmers (800, 1500 and the few 10k swimmers these days) will be very different to the work and mileage covered by the sprinters. Taper time will obviously be again very different.
Training time per week for swimmers can be up around 20 hours a week ... in the pool ... 11 sessions a week ... they'll do gym work and may or may not do weights ... some groups are actively encouraged NOT to engage in any other sports during periods of the year since it effects training ...


Training to swim in triathlons:
- Triathlons arent won swimming fast so time and effort spent training for swimming is often the least amount done by triathletes during an average week. People differ so it might be an unfair generalisation.
- Most of the swimming done is f/s - try to introduce other strokes during group sessions and mini-revolutions take place. To be honest I can see the value in changing strokes from time to time (and there are hugh fitness and endurance benefits to IM's (all 4 strokes)) but not always for triathletes so fair enough.
- Imho there's an awful lot of stroke work being done in the ... for example 3 hours a week.. at club sessions ... so the time actually spent swimming training is less and less. Reasons for this is that alot of subtle things can be improved in the strokes that can greatly help new and improving swimmers ... body position, effectiveness of kick, effective hand entry and the catch and pull of the arms, body rotation, breathing without sticking your head up etc ... get the basics right and average times per 100 for triathlon swimmers drop ... for beginners ...
- Come the spring and summer the amount of time people spend swim training gets even less ... they're competing at tri's around the country ... and often its a case of who wants to go inside to a pool when the weathers this nice (obviously not ireland ). Competing in the various open water swims and aquathlons can definitely help translate the work done in the pool during the winter to faster swim times ... or more effective swimming during triathlons that can leave more energy for the bike and the run.


I think like the other sports in Tri - training cycles are useful - think about what you want to get from a period of training and structure you're training sessions around achieving that objective. As per Tunney's suggestion ... the approach of dividing the 3 or 4 sessions a week into ... endurance, strenght and speed work might be a good match for most to be honest ...especially if you're looking at sprint or oly tri's. For longer distances like 1.9km or 3.8km at HIM and IM distances then Id probably be doing less speed work and more endurance work .. but thats just my opinion.

Probably obvious from above but if doing endurance work try to use the lap clock in the pool so you dont completely loose focus on what you're doing for the hour. The old cut up inner ring with a pull buoy is a great suggestion from Tunney ... it will rip holy hell out of any leg hair but it certainly gets rid of any sly little kicks off the wall or when trying to make a time. Id entirely agree that the use of paddles (solid or those glove thingy's) is over the top for most triathletes ... often people have problems with their strokes and using paddles when theres already issues with body position or hand entry doesnt help things get corrected.
that said - I do use them ... but I also use a drag belt and at this stage I dont have many problems with my stroke ... and I definitely dont use them all the time Im swimming ...

So .... a swim plan you say ...

Caveats and disclaimers:
a) everyones different - different skill, speed levels etc so .. this isnt a silver bullet - merely an example
b) im definitely no expert - just some ideas I picked up along the way
c) distances and numbers of iterations per set are up to the individual with the time they have to give in the pool
d) having a good solid kick (not necessarily a 6-beat kick) WILL keep all swimmers high in the water - this is good for triathletes and swimmers alike imho ... when wearing a wetsuit this suit helps lift the hips and body position towards the ideal horizontal position on top of the water. If you want your swim times to improve in the poor and subsequently in the sea you will need to actually kick your legs ...


3 * 4 week cycles (longer and short cycles may suit other people - just an example)

Ill leave warm ups and swim downs to yourself - imho speed work should be done with a very fast kick ... 6-beat (http://swimming.about.com/od/freeandback/a/kick_test.htm) - if you can

Just one cycle example below ...
(3 sessions per week)
week 1:
session 1 - endurance - 5 * 400's
session 2 - power - (4 * 100's f/s kick, 4* 100's pull) * 2
session 3 - speed - 10 * 50's f/s kick ... fast as hell, 10 * 50's f/s



week 2:
session 1 - endurance - 8 * 200's
session 2 - power - (2 * 100's f/s kick, 8* 100's pull) * 2
session 3 - speed - 10 * 50's f/s kick ... fast as hell, 5*(4 * 50's) f/s


week 3:
session 1 - endurance - 6 * 400's
session 2 - power - ((2 * 100's f/s kick, 4* 100's pull)) * 2
session 3 - speed - 3*(4 * 50's f/s kick) ... fast as hell, 2*(4 * 50's) f/s


week 4:
session 1 - endurance - 2 * 400's, 3* 200's, 4 * 100's
session 2 - power - (2 * 100's f/s kick, 2* 100's pull) * 2
session 3 - speed - 2*(6 * 50's f/s swim fast as hell)


Final week - endurance and power sessions drop distance (not necessarily intensity) - this means it should be possible to really focus on maximum effort during 50's or 100's or whatever during your speed sessions to meet a cycle objective ... before resetting aims etc ...


Again - just an opinion ... best of luck

delboyfagan

Good info guys.

Can I ask 2 questions:

1. Could you explain how the tube works. Never heard of this before. Do you tie your legs with tube?

2. There is a masters session I do and once a week there is a speed set. It goes something like 3*100 off four minutes all out. You then have to do a 50 recovery. So you have 2 mins 30secs for the 50 recovery and rest before next 100. Is this too much rest in your opinion?

Rgds,

D

interested

delboyfagan wrote: »

Good info guys.

Can I ask 2 questions:

1. Could you explain how the tube works. Never heard of this before. Do you tie your legs with tube?

2. There is a masters session I do and once a week there is a speed set. It goes something like 3*100 off four minutes all out. You then have to do a 50 recovery. So you have 2 mins 30secs for the 50 recovery and rest before next 100. Is this too much rest in your opinion?

Rgds,

D

re: 1
Should have made that clearer
Its a cut up inner tube from a truck or something (think really large rubber band) - the sort of thing they inflate and let kids sit on in lakes or something if you know what I mean - no idea where you'd get one - but both legs squeeze into the tube (band will be between ankle and knee)

... but I did find this http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/13414.htm (Ive nothing to do with the company)

re:2
The active rest thing is fine and its about right for full on sprint sets ... but it'll all depend on the swimmers ... for example: if the 100's are close to or under 60 seconds then yeah it sounds about right ... HR should be close to max so the active rest is designed to help shake off any lactic acid build up I guess ...

I assume you're taking part in those sprints to get to the first buoy at an IM ?

tunney

delboyfagan wrote: »

Good info guys.

Can I ask 2 questions:

1. Could you explain how the tube works. Never heard of this before. Do you tie your legs with tube?

Means your legs are completely remobed from the equation, increases drag even when a pull buoy is used. Just use an inner tube from a bike and tie a loop in it.

delboyfagan

thanks guys.

Think i'll hold back on the race to the first buoy though

NeedsTraining

Thanks for the information guys. A lot of interesting reading there.

Went to the pool this morning (hadn't seen the replies) and did the following

200 Warm up
100 legs only with kickboard
100 pull buoy
100 fs

Repeated this 3 times

Then a 200 cool down

Question is, am I gaining anything from this or would I be better doing 300 legs, 300 pull, 300 fs? Or is it ok to separate as above.

Thanks,

NT

ir666

NeedsTraining wrote: »

Thanks for the information guys. A lot of interesting reading there.



Question is, am I gaining anything from this or would I be better doing 300 legs, 300 pull, 300 fs? Or is it ok to separate as above.


NT

What kind of rests were you taking between each interval? I suppose you could do some sessions with longer intervals.

Short intervals are grand if done at the right pace / rest ratio.

These are only my opinions and I am not very experienced. IMHO time in the pool and mixing it up to keep it interesting are important.

NeedsTraining

I was taking a minute rest between each set.

Plan is to increase these sets over time, but I am at the limit of my ability at present.

catweazle

Sorry Interested am I reading right below, just need to be sure

session 2 - power - (4 * 100's f/s kick, 4* 100's pull) * 2
session 3 - speed - 10 * 50's f/s kick ... fast as hell, 10 * 50's f/s

4*100's f/s kick = kicking as well as arms??
4*100 Pull = No kicking just arms??
10 * 50's f/s = Just your normal technique as fast as you can??

Thanks

Raging_Hull

There is some wonderful training advice on this thread. Thanks guys.

I go to the pool 2-3 times a week and just do 1500m straight (60x25m). My times have been improving slowly to around 35mins.

Is a more structured training session as decribed above a much better way to prepare for an Olympic Tri?

interested

catweazle wrote: »

Sorry Interested am I reading right below, just need to be sure

session 2 - power - (4 * 100's f/s kick, 4* 100's pull) * 2
session 3 - speed - 10 * 50's f/s kick ... fast as hell, 10 * 50's f/s

4*100's f/s kick = kicking as well as arms??
4*100 Pull = No kicking just arms??
10 * 50's f/s = Just your normal technique as fast as you can??

Thanks

4 * 100's f/s kick ... legs only ... ideally arms should be stretched out in front of you in a streamlined position - no kick board - that way your legs are responsible for keeping you on top of the water. To start with use a kick board.

4 * 100's pull - yep, just arms - and if you want to recycle some of your old inner bike tubes you can take Tunney's advice and ensure you wont use your legs by restricting any sly leg kicks

10 * 50's f/s ... as part of a speed session - yeah they should be as fast as you can - an idea might be to do
(50 flat out, 25 easy ) * 6 - slightly less distance (450 instead of 500) but the active rest should really help avoid lactic acid build up etc ...

hope that helps

interested

NeedsTraining wrote: »

Question is, am I gaining anything from this or would I be better doing 300 legs, 300 pull, 300 fs? Or is it ok to separate as above.

Thanks,

NT

Very hard to say whether you're gaining anything from this sort of set - it depends on how your swimming is now, your stroke and what distance you want to do comfortably etc ...

If you're relatively new to swimming - then its not a bad session - the order of the set is correct imho - warmup, kick set, pull set, swim set - if the objective is to lift your body into a more appropriate position on top of the water then working on your kick before your pull should help. If you can get yourself on top of the water, then it makes a high elbow and correct hand entry easier on the arms. Putting the kick and pull excercises all together as part of the swim is a good idea too.

If you've been swimming and are looking to improve then this sort of set would be useful as part of a stroke session -
Id be more inclined to do things like 6*50's kick, 3*100's pull, 2*200's swim .. or the like but the kick should be done fast and hard - if you're drifting through it you wont get as much benefit.

Keeping a kick set that you *work* through part of any session is very useful - since it keeps your stroke honest and your body position in an optimum position for utilising the power in your arms, maintaining momentum etc - if you watch swimming on t.v the camera often focuses on the arms and upper body ... they appear to be gliding through the water .. nothing appears frantic ... it certainly is all controlled but their kicks are most likely all 6-beat unless its an 800 of 1500 event.

Hope some of this helps

interested

Raging_Hull wrote: »

There is some wonderful training advice on this thread. Thanks guys.

I go to the pool 2-3 times a week and just do 1500m straight (60x25m). My times have been improving slowly to around 35mins.

Is a more structured training session as decribed above a much better way to prepare for an Olympic Tri?

Kinda depends on your level of swimming -
If the distance is new to you then getting to the pool and swimming 1500 will certainly be fine to get you through - especially since many Oly tri's arent the full swim distance and some are even downhill ... Athy ..

Based on your current time of 35 mins - you might benefit from doing one session of a long swim as above, but for the other one or two sessions a week do something like a 400 warm up, then 10*100's on a time that gives you 5 or 10 seconds rest where your perceived effort is roughly 60 to 80% - and 100 swim down. If you feel yourself really struggling after 3 then increase the time your doing your 100's off.

400 warm up
10*100's f/s on 2.05 (2.05 * 15 = 31.15 for 1500 or a PB by nearly 4 mins for you)
100 swim down

To start with you might not make all 10 .. so you could do 2 sets of 5 * 100's on 2.05 with 60 seconds rest between each set.
If you're making these 100's at 60 - 80 % perceived effort then your overal 1500 straight time should get better ...

imho anyhow ... good luck

Raging_Hull

'Interested', thanks a million, I'll give it a go.

interested

Raging_Hull wrote: »

'Interested', thanks a million, I'll give it a go.

hmmm .. dont go thanking me yet ... 3 into a set of 10 100's and youre dizzy Id imagine you might be cursing me Dont set too tough a goal or time for yourself initially ... theres alot of pool time between now and your oly races so .. little steps .. keep it entertaining