E39 520i Bargain or Money Pit?

kazul

A mate can get me a '00 520i for less than €1500 from a dealership where he works. Just over 100k miles on it, leather interior, needs tyres and tax.
ASC and ABS lights are on. From what I gather this can be as simple as faulty ABS sensors but can be more complicated. I was reading about them today and it seems that a lot of stuff on them has to be done by computer and I quite like the bit of DIY mechanical work.
I know there are a few owners on here so whaddaya think, bargain or money pit?

Mr Benevolent

kazul wrote: »

A mate can get me a '00 520i for less than €1500 from a dealership where he works. Just over 100k miles on it, leather interior, needs tyres and tax.
ASC and ABS lights are on. From what I gather this can be as simple as faulty ABS sensors but can be more complicated. I was reading about them today and it seems that a lot of stuff on them has to be done by computer and I quite like the bit of DIY mechanical work.
I know there are a few owners on here so whaddaya think, bargain or money pit?

Hard to tell. Get it inspected mechanically, the E39s have overheating issues. €1500 for a '00 E39 screams 'don't touch with an interstellar bargepole' to me. Tyres will be expensive. ABS/ACS lights are common enough, there's one or two causes though. I'd realyy get it inspected before parting with cash, no matter how cheap it is.

colm_mcm

the trade price on an old 520i may be low but that doesn't mean that ones privately for €3000 are any better quality

mick.fr

Confab wrote: »

Hard to tell. Get it inspected mechanically, the E39s have overheating issues. €1500 for a '00 E39 screams 'don't touch with an interstellar bargepole' to me. Tyres will be expensive. ABS/ACS lights are common enough, there's one or two causes though. I'd realyy get it inspected before parting with cash, no matter how cheap it is.

Yeah agreed just get a good inspection. ABS/ASC lights on, could just be a sensor, but could also be the ABS module, less fun on the wallet.

All BMW models has a weak cooling system, not just the e39.
Tyres will be expensive? I don't see why. Camskill is your friend anyway.

maidhc

They say the most expensive thing you can buy is a cheap mercedes benz. I suspect the same applies to a BMW.

daveharnett

kazul wrote: »

A mate can get me a '00 520i for less than €1500 from a dealership where he works. Just over 100k miles on it, leather interior, needs tyres and tax.
ASC and ABS lights are on. From what I gather this can be as simple as faulty ABS sensors but can be more complicated. I was reading about them today and it seems that a lot of stuff on them has to be done by computer and I quite like the bit of DIY mechanical work.
I know there are a few owners on here so whaddaya think, bargain or money pit?

Awfully good price, but I wouldn't touch it unless the dealer can sort out the ASC fault code - probably just a sensor, but a faulty controller could cost a bomb.

Just over 100k miles at that price suggests that no money has been spent on the suspension - a good number of bushings/ball joints will need replacing by 120k, and the shocks will be getting pretty ropey too. Budget 500-700 over the next two years to keep it driveable, 1500-2000 to get it riding really well. (that's parts plus labour. You can almost halve that for any jobs you can tackle yourself.)

Assuming it's on 16" alloys, you can get decent tyres delivered from camskill and fitted locally for 75 a corner.

Bear in mind that the 2000 520i is a 2.2L engine. 20 extra bhp over the 2L 99 model, but also 200 extra to tax.

Expect about 27mpg for mixed driving, 35 for motorway.

Don't let me put you off, it's a lovely car for the money.

Big Nasty

I've a '97 532i if you're interested. 96k miles regularly service, 7/10 NCT and 2/10 Tax.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1110348
€1500 - no haggling!

corglass

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I've a '97 532i if you're interested. 96k miles regularly service, 7/10 NCT and 2/10 Tax.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1110348
€1500 - no haggling!

nice car!

Frank_Leach

kazul wrote: »

A mate can get me a '00 520i for less than €1500 from a dealership where he works. Just over 100k miles on it, leather interior, needs tyres and tax.
ASC and ABS lights are on. From what I gather this can be as simple as faulty ABS sensors but can be more complicated. I was reading about them today and it seems that a lot of stuff on them has to be done by computer and I quite like the bit of DIY mechanical work.
I know there are a few owners on here so whaddaya think, bargain or money pit?

Small world or what? I went to see a 98 525 yesterday, and apart from being sold as seen with v short nct, the abs light was also on all the time. I asked marlow who is an experienced entusiast on the 5 series, and like the others here, if its the sensor its not major, but if its the sensor box, or something, its looking like 200-300.
I have a similar predicament- a super looking car at a decent price, but a short nct, and doubts about if it will turn into a money burning head melt.
went to see another 525 today, and while this one did inspire some more confidence, still a v short nct. It would be the stuff of nightmares if i bought into a money pit, i can barely afford it if it all goes to plan anyway

unkel

Frank_Leach wrote: »

if its the sensor its not major, but if its the sensor box, or something, its looking like 200-300.

Or like maybe a teeny weeny bit more :eek:

A dealer will replace the ABS module for €1,500 - €2,000.

I have a bill from a well known and well respected BMW independent specialist for fitting a used module for €658

There are companies in the UK and the US that will take your module, recondition it and send it back to you. The US specialist will do so for $300 and will give you a 5 year warranty.

Voodoomelon

unkel wrote: »

There are companies in the UK and the US that will take your module, recondition it and send it back to you. The US specialist will do so for $300 and will give you a 5 year warranty.

Yup, that US specialist is great value and they stand over their work. I'd go for it, as long as the engine and the transmission are fine, you'll won't get any nasty shocks bill-wise.

You can get brand new OEM ABS sensors for $90 on eBay, and entire front and rear suspension kits for about €500 each. Replace the water pump, radiator and a few hoses and you have a quality car on your hands.

Frank_Leach

unkel wrote: »

Or like maybe a teeny weeny bit more :eek:

A dealer will replace the ABS module for €1,500 - €2,000.

I have a bill from a well known and well respected BMW independent specialist for fitting a used module for €658

There are companies in the UK and the US that will take your module, recondition it and send it back to you. The US specialist will do so for $300 and will give you a 5 year warranty.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Yup, that US specialist is great value and they stand over their work. I'd go for it, as long as the engine and the transmission are fine, you'll won't get any nasty shocks bill-wise.

You can get brand new OEM ABS sensors for $90 on eBay, and entire front and rear suspension kits for about €500 each. Replace the water pump, radiator and a few hoses and you have a quality car on your hands.

Ouch! I rang him today to enquire about the abs light, he said he'd get his mechanic to look at it but he never got back to me. Sounds like some serious potential for financial disaster..

Though like you pointed out, there are reasonable solutions that are cost effective, but ultimately, the garage will have to review his selling price alot..
Also...a damaged drivers seat, is that a fail on nct? i have an idea it is..
He is looking for 2300 for car as is, but if this abs thing looks near fatal, maybe 1500 is worth a risk?

Dades

Don't forget the new warning light rules for the NCT, and that it'll have to do a test once a year soon enough!

Frank_Leach

Dades wrote: »

Don't forget the new warning light rules for the NCT, and that it'll have to do a test once a year soon enough!

I am aware of the warning light inata-failure, but an annual nct?
Is that coming in?
Also...damaged drivers seat, is that a failure? He says no, but i am so cynical..he never mentioned the abs light that happened to stay on and quite possible will cost a fortune to fix!

rabbitinlights

I would not like to buy one of these on a budget. You would want to have 2-3k ready and waiting for the next year to be safe.

Also the 2000 model was still 2.0, the 2.2 didn't come in till mid/late 2001.

Frank_Leach

rabbitinlights wrote: »

I would not like to buy one of these on a budget. You would want to have 2-3k ready and waiting for the next year to be safe.

Also the 2000 model was still 2.0, the 2.2 didn't come in till mid/late 2001.

personally, it was the 525 tds i was looking at, and i am beginning to realise it might turn costly. Also the yearly nct does not endear me, even though it is another 15 months till that applies.
Sorry, i feel like i am hyjacking another's post here..thanks for all the help though

Dades

Frank_Leach wrote: »

I am aware of the warning light inata-failure, but an annual nct?

June next year I think for cars over 10 years. Worth bearing in mind just.

Voodoomelon

Frank_Leach wrote: »

Ouch! I rang him today to enquire about the abs light, he said he'd get his mechanic to look at it but he never got back to me. Sounds like some serious potential for financial disaster..

Though like you pointed out, there are reasonable solutions that are cost effective, but ultimately, the garage will have to review his selling price alot..
Also...a damaged drivers seat, is that a fail on nct? i have an idea it is..
He is looking for 2300 for car as is, but if this abs thing looks near fatal, maybe 1500 is worth a risk?

ABS lights on are either an ABS sensor or a bad module, which means at worst a $300 recondition. Those lights rarely mean anything else.

kazul

rabbitinlights wrote: »

I would not like to buy one of these on a budget. You would want to have 2-3k ready and waiting for the next year to be safe.

Also the 2000 model was still 2.0, the 2.2 didn't come in till mid/late 2001.

Anything specific you think would cost 2-3k to repair?

I must tell my mate the BMW dealer that he's wrong about the engine size

E39MSport

At 100k miles they need radiator and hoses replacing.

rebel.ranter

The fact that ABS & ASC lifts are both on would lead me to think that it is the sensor. Is the speedo working? If it is not working as well then you can be sure that it is theleft rear sensor.
These cars were ~€50k when new & will still have the equivalent €50k car running costs, perhaps even more. Many would say that the 100k miles mark is the magic trigger for lots of work to be initiated, on the suspension, cooling system & electrical gremlins start to appear.
They are/were agreat car if maintained properly, not all owners do this unfortunately. The one you are looking at might be worth a punt if thereof enough of a discount, it is hard to tell how good/bad it is through the medium if the forum.

itarumaa

I would not buy a car like Bmw or Merc with a small budjet, I think it is too risky.

Something more simple like Ford Mondeo, Volvo S40 etc, 2l petrol. You would get a car that goes somewhere and it is still relatively cheap to keep in the road.

Shires

Perhaps this short video about the E39 may be helpful:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426133

Frank_Leach

Shires wrote: »

Perhaps this short video about the E39 may be helpful:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426133

Brillant!!
And sadly, this confirms my fears-run away from any e39 without decent nct & service record....and warning lights!!
I can't say i am happy though, some swear by them, but others do warn of the potential financial meltdown in getting involved intimately with one...sounds like my last girlfriend!

Any more feedback welcome....

galwaytt

Frank - buy a Porsche No ESP, no ASC and rudimentary electrics compared to modern cars, and still exude that 'nice car' feeling.



I just bought:
4 new discs, pads (OEM), 4 caliper rebuild kits (Genuine Brembo Porsche), caliper paint and door sill trims (stainless) for my 'expensive' Porsche: total cost Eur 620.

I bet a 520i to do that would cost more.

Frank_Leach

galwaytt wrote: »

Frank - buy a Porsche No ESP, no ASC and rudimentary electrics compared to modern cars, and still exude that 'nice car' feeling.



I just bought:
4 new discs, pads (OEM), 4 caliper rebuild kits (Genuine Brembo Porsche), caliper paint and door sill trims (stainless) for my 'expensive' Porsche: total cost Eur 620.

I bet a 520i to do that would cost more.

A Porsche??:)
I work in a factory..i think the begrudgers may not be impressed, i am an miss-fit as it is...
Nah, i can justify a 12 year old diesel BMW..i just can't justify the massive potential for financial devastation!
Do you know, does a damaged drivers door fail a nct?
Oh, and well done on the parts, i am thinking double that for the beemer goodies!

HashSlinging

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Many would say that the 100k miles mark is the magic trigger for lots of work to be initiated, on the suspension, cooling system & electrical gremlins start to appear.

I think the magic 100k is the best thing to happen in this country, do people actually think that a car will self destruct once it hits 100k...

100k in our little island might sound a lot but on mainland europe its nothing, these cars are setup to do light years of mileage.. if there is such a thing.. I'm sure this applies to every modern car.. that 5 series was tested to the limit by BMW 100k is nothing on them.

I've over 120k on my SEAT which cost a lot less new than that 5 series and im waiting for the first thing to break..

rabbitinlights

kazul wrote: »

I must tell my mate the BMW dealer that he's wrong about the engine size

Before I bought my 2002 E39 520i, I drove a few 2.0L and they really felt underpowered with anything more than a driver in.

Here is a bit of info on the 2.2 Engine, I'd be shocked if there was a 2000 reg Irish car with a 2.2 engine in it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M54

M54B22

The 2.2 L (2171 cc/132 in³) M54B22 produced 170 hp (125 kW) at 6100 rpm and 155 ft·lbf (210 Nm) of torque at 3500 rpm.

Applications:

* 2001-2003 E46 320i/320Ci
* 2001-2003 E39 520i
* 2001-2002 E36 Z3 2.2i
* 2003-2005 E85 Z4 2.2i
* 2003-2005 E60/E61 520i

Shires

rebel.ranter wrote:

Many would say that the 100k miles mark is the magic trigger for lots of work to be initiated, on the suspension, cooling system & electrical gremlins start to appear.

..

HashSlinging wrote: »

100k in our little island might sound a lot but on mainland europe its nothing, these cars are setup to do light years of mileage.. I've over 120k on my SEAT which cost a lot less new than that 5 series and im waiting for the first thing to break..

He's actually right about this particular car... and any 5 series that BMW has ever made, at least on the suspension front. By way of example, the 5 series car might weigh about 1700kg and it has an intricate suspension with lots of wearing parts to it to give a nice smooth ride and good handling, low road noise etc. By 100k many of those suspension components will be completely and utterly shot. Some of the failures will just make the car feel a bit wallowy and imprecise and some will be outright dangerous. On Mrs. Shires' smaller car with a fairly straightforward suspension setup it's just not an issue - I don't really worry about it.

I once read that if you want to drive a aging luxobarge, you need to be either handy with the spanners or handy with the money!

daveharnett

HashSlinging wrote: »

100k in our little island might sound a lot but on mainland europe its nothing

The continent: isn't that the place with the good roads that don't ruin suspensions?

HashSlinging

ahh seriously ! I'm sure there made of better stuff than that.. its not something you can quantify I know 100k shouldnt be sniffed at but from what I've read they are one of the reliable cars they've produced, Esp the 520i.

Are they really that bad suspension wise ? BMW seems to be right up there in reliability with skoda.

daveharnett

HashSlinging wrote: »

Are they really that bad suspension wise ? BMW seems to be right up there in reliability with skoda.

I wouldn't characterize the suspension as bad - it does it's job very well, but it isn't cheap. It's quite complex, and use lots of aluminium to save weight. This makes it quite sensitive - it doesn't hold up to abuse all that well, and even minor problems are quite noticeable in the ride.

rebel.ranter

I have 2 BMWs with 100k miles plus on them, one of them is an e39, the other an e36 3 Series. Just as an example the front wishbone for the 5 is almost 3 times more expensive than the 3 Series due to aluminium. With the state of the roads over here these will need to be changed at around the 100k miles as the ball joiints will be hanging out of them if the car suffers any abuse. Also the rubber bushes sometimes called brake reaction bushes need to be replaced as they are a service item in reality, rubber components wear out,the parts might £70-€80 but there is a bit of labour in them. The worst thing is the e39 5 Series can hide it's mileage so well spotting this problem can be tricky. A good one is one of the best drives you can get, better than current (outgoing) model IMO.
Anyone would recommend preventative mIntenance on the cooling system at 100k miles by changing the thermostat, water pump, getting radiator pressure tested, cooant pipes checked/replaced. This is not really BMW specific either.
As for the brakes, I have talked to a few BMW mechanics who say that some owners over here allow the discs do the 100k miles, so another "100k miles" job.
There are lots of electronic control units in the e39, all expensive to replace. You could be one module failure away from scrapping the car as an economic write off.
So I'm afraid the "Irish" 100k miles phobia is not misplaced, it is about the necessary preventative maintenance required at thus mileage to see it though the next 100k miles.
OP at €1,500 you could probably get away with doing the minimum fixes & squeeze many more miles out of it & then scrap it once the first major thing goes wrong, you would just have to work out what major looks like. If you are not mechanically minded then it could be pretty much anything.
@ GalwayTT I think you could probably get the equivalent parts list for an e39 for the €620. In fact I think BMW have a "deal" on the e39 specifically (shown on BMW.ie) where they will swap out all discs & pads for ~€520, labour included. (Too lazy to check just now).

Mr Benevolent

rebel.ranter wrote: »

In fact I think BMW have a "deal" on the e39 specifically (shown on BMW.ie) where they will swap out all discs & pads for ~€520, labour included. (Too lazy to check just now).

It's €580, a bit expensive imo but better than BMW used to be. It is one job that you can do yourself.

Frank_Leach

ok..so this, i hope, will be my last set of questions pre-purchasing a E39.
This car i am looking at is a 97, 168,000 miles.
There is also a 98, with a similar amount of milege.

What sould have been worn out and changed it this stage of the car's life, in other words, what am i looking for in the service history?
from what i can gather, bushings and suspension for sure.
anything else?

Voodoomelon

Entire cooling system, water pump, radiator, upper and lower hoses, coolant expansion tank. Also serpentine belt, tensioners and pulleys.

Might also want to check for power steering pump and lines.

All of the above may have been done, suspension too, but because of the age and miles you may be starting to see replacements coming around again. I'd stick to a 2000+ with little over a 100k miles to be honest.

rebel.ranter

Confab wrote: »

It's €580, a bit expensive imo but better than BMW used to be. It is one job that you can do yourself.

I was too lazy to look this up again, thanks. You are right it is something you coudl do yourself (myself). I think it helps if you can do stuff like this, it takes a bit of the sting out of the bigger jobs.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Lads, the car is €1500!! If it goes really wrong you could get most back selling the good parts on e-bay. Alot of car for that kind of money.

rebel.ranter

Jack Green Playboy wrote: »

Lads, the car is €1500!! If it goes really wrong you could get most back selling the good parts on e-bay. Alot of car for that kind of money.

I agree 100% with you, I suppose ona forum like this it is hard to convey that along side pointing out all the other stuff. I suppose it is just making sure you are going in with your eyes wide open.

unkel

Jack Green Playboy wrote: »

Lads, the car is €1500!! If it goes really wrong you could get most back selling the good parts on e-bay. Alot of car for that kind of money.

+1

On a car like you're not gonna spend a grand on a suspension job - you'd just get another car!

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

unkel wrote: »

+1

On a car like you're not gonna spend a grand on a suspension job - you'd just get another car!

and have plenty of spare parts:D

MojoMaker

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Before I bought my 2002 E39 520i, I drove a few 2.0L and they really felt underpowered with anything more than a driver in.

Here is a bit of info on the 2.2 Engine, I'd be shocked if there was a 2000 reg Irish car with a 2.2 engine in it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M54

I have a October '00 registered 520i 2.2l auto. Buddy also has one. 2000 was the year this engine became available in the 520i, ahead of the exterior facelift which although was listed as 2000 didn't start appearing here until 2001 really.