Ireland tops EU table for electronics recycling??

Antenna

Ireland tops EU table for electronics recycling
according to
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyauqleygbcw/

"This translates to around 9kgs per person, more than double the EU target for electronic waste recycling."


But is it just that the Irish, in recent years have been more inclined than other Europeans to get rid of still functioning (but considered 'out-of-date') electronics, such as CRT televisions !?

and also to replace non-functioning items which only require a minor repair to get going again, - such as for instance small appliances with just a damaged flex !?

Its pretty meaningless from an environmental point of view.

If consumers got more life out of consumer electronic, such as purchases of better built longer lasting products, repair (when feasible), and not throwing out still functioning equipment (that at least someone else may have use for), we would be down this table!

Pembily

I just recently did a project for Sustainability Engineering on this subject. Yes we are above our targets - 9kg is what we recycle!! But sadly there are no figures for how much we use or what state the stuff we recycle is in!!!

That was one concern we had - manufacturers saying how much they recycled but not saying how much was produced or sold!!!

I think the throw out era is kinda gone now - fixing is all the rage according to that programme 10 Things That Went Boom in the Bust, DIY is back in!!!

homer911

There is a lot of stuff which is completely fixable when it gets broken - the problem is that the cost of repair usually exceeds the replacement cost - especially if not DIY

Pembily

homer911 wrote: »

There is a lot of stuff which is completely fixable when it gets broken - the problem is that the cost of repair usually exceeds the replacement cost - especially if not DIY

That is changing and a huge part of that cost was a call out charge and that charge is either decreasing or going totally - which is about time!!!

ConsiderThis

Pembily wrote: »

I just recently did a project for Sustainability Engineering on this subject. Yes we are above our targets - 9kg is what we recycle!! But sadly there are no figures for how much we use or what state the stuff we recycle is in!!!

I suspect the word "recycling" might not be as we imagine. My understanding is that many old electronic goods are smashed up and put into landfill, which seems to qualify as "recycling".

djpbarry

ConsiderThis wrote: »

My understanding is that many old electronic goods are smashed up and put into landfill, which seems to qualify as "recycling".

Care to back that up with something?

Cheeble

The article only claims that the "waste" is collected under the WEEE regulations. It offers no evidence that any of the items so collected are recycled.

Cheeble-eers

Pete M.

Just to clarify for you, waste electronic and electrical equipment (WEEE), as in electronic or electrical equipment (anything with a battery or plug) that is no longer wanted by the owner and which they discard of either at a shop as part of the takeback scheme (buy a new fridge, shop has to take back old one, like for like, like) or at a civic amenity site, both of which are free btw, is collected by one of two collectors. This equipment is then disassembled in specialist facilities where the materials in them i.e. plastics, various metals etc. is recycled and used to manufacture other goods again.
very little is re-used for the same purpose, though you do see folks wandering through these areas in the civic amentiy sites and removing things like memory cards etc. from old PC's and that.
Recycle means the materials used are just used agin but from scratch, as opposed to the items being reused, as in prevent, re-use, recycle, energy recovery, disposal...

I suppose some of the unusable material from the process where materials are recovered after collection may go to landfill, but certainly most of the stuff recovered goes back into manufacturing.

ConsiderThis

Pete M. wrote: »

Just to clarify for you, waste electronic and electrical equipment (WEEE), as in electronic or electrical equipment (anything with a battery or plug) that is no longer wanted by the owner and which they discard of either at a shop as part of the takeback scheme (buy a new fridge, shop has to take back old one, like for like, like) or at a civic amenity site, both of which are free btw, is collected by one of two collectors. This equipment is then disassembled in specialist facilities where the materials in them i.e. plastics, various metals etc. is recycled and used to manufacture other goods again.
very little is re-used for the same purpose, though you do see folks wandering through these areas in the civic amentiy sites and removing things like memory cards etc. from old PC's and that.
Recycle means the materials used are just used agin but from scratch, as opposed to the items being reused, as in prevent, re-use, recycle, energy recovery, disposal...

I suppose some of the unusable material from the process where materials are recovered after collection may go to landfill, but certainly most of the stuff recovered goes back into manufacturing.

Being a student of politics, I know how important labels are, and when the label "recycling" is attached to, for example, old PC's, I wonder which bits of them are recycled, especially when I visited two recycling centers in Dublin recently and saw the start of the "recycling" process which seems to be to throw old pc's into a skip from quite a height, smashing much of what was a pc to smithereens.

My idea of "recycling" is old pc's being lovingly put on a converyor belt somewhere and being carefully disassembled, and its hard to understand how smashing them to smithereens in a skip qualifies or helps the "recycling" process.

It would be great to learn what happens them after being smashed to smithereens.

I'd love to visit one of the specialist facilities which disassemble old PC's and electronic goods, which you mention, to see how it all works. Any idea where they are in and around Dublin?

djpbarry

Cheeble wrote: »

The article only claims that the "waste" is collected under the WEEE regulations. It offers no evidence that any of the items so collected are recycled.

No, I’m not saying it does, but according to EPA reports, estimated recovery and recycling rates are quite high (higher than the targets set out in the EU’s WEEE directive).

djpbarry

ConsiderThis wrote: »

My understanding is that many old electronic goods are smashed up and put into landfill, which seems to qualify as "recycling".

Care to back that up with something?

chrissiem

In 2008, ireland collected 9.1kg of WEEE per head of population, over double the EU target of 4kg. This year the WEEE directive is being reviewed, and our targets will be changed to 65% recycling target of products placed on the market from the previous two years.

Household WEEE must be collected in Ireland by approved waste collection and treatment contractors of the two compliance schemes operting in Ireland - WEEE Ireland and European Recycling Platform.

@ Consider this: to find out more about CRT recycling, visit www.therecyclingvillage.ie (just one of the approved contractors operating in Ireland). To find out more about WEEE recycling in general, log on to www.recyclefree.ie

Cunsiderthis

I again went to Ballyogan dump ( sorry, Recycling center) this week and there it is again, the skip at a lower level and people hurling their old pc's into it and smashing them to smithereens. How this can be labelled "recycling" seems not obvious.

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I again went to Ballyogan dump ( sorry, Recycling center) this week and there it is again, the skip at a lower level and people hurling their old pc's into it and smashing them to smithereens. How this can be labelled "recycling" seems not obvious.

Damaged electronic equipment cannot be recycled?

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

Damaged electronic equipment cannot be recycled?

I really have no idea. All I can do is give my experience and the evidence of my eyes. Do you know what happens to all these smashed up computers once the skip is full? Or which bits are recyceld and which bits aren't?

It seems foolish to smash up many old pc's together before removing the bits that are going to be recycled. If, after a hundred or so pc's have all been smashed into smithereens in one skip, it seems to make any job of finding the bits which are recyclable much more difficult, as the first thing we have to do is wade through all the smashed to smithereens bits we don't want to find the smashed to smithereens bits we do want.

That's what makes me wonder what "recycling" means, as it doesn't seem to mean what it implies, as in old computers being lovingly disassembled on a conveyor belt with the various parts being lovingly reused in new pc's, or other pc's.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

I wonder does "recycling" in this context mean something other than what most of us might assume it means?

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

That's what makes me wonder what "recycling" means, as it doesn't seem to mean what it implies, as in old computers being lovingly disassembled on a conveyor belt with the various parts being lovingly reused in new pc's, or other pc's.

It seems to me you're conflating 'recycling' with 'reusing'. If a PC is brought to a recycling facility, it is essentially being 'dumped', and any valuable materials - lead, copper, gold, tin, silicon, iron, aluminium and of course, plastics - will be extracted for re-use. I doubt it is economically feasible to carefully disassemble each unit - many of the individual components are probably obsolete, often due to planned obsolescence on the part of the manufacturer.

Anyway, I’m still waiting for a source for your claim that these “smashed up” electronic goods are put into landfill?

Pembily

djpbarry wrote: »

many of the individual components are probably obsolete, often due to planned obsolescence on the part of the manufacturer.

The powers that be are slowly trying to stop this planeed obsolescence as its not sustainable and is harmful to the environment!!!

It is most defo not economically vialbe to reuse an entire computer, the one I am on at the minute (18mths old and top spec when I got it) wouldn't have any viable parts at all!!!

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

Anyway, I’m still waiting for a source for your claim that these “smashed up” electronic goods are put into landfill?

I have no idea what happens old computers after they are smashed to smithereens. But I am do think it's unlikely that, after they are so smitheeringly smashed, they are put to much useful use.

It is interesting to learn in what sense they are "recycled", after being smashed to smithereens.

As a postscript, what is recycling, if it's not reusing? It might appear unusual to recycle and then not reuse!

oppenheimer1

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I have no idea what happens old computers after they are smashed to smithereens. But I am do think it's unlikely that, after they are so smitheeringly smashed, they are put to much useful use.

It is interesting to learn in what sense they are "recycled", after being smashed to smithereens.

Sorry but why do you keep using the word smithereens? I think we got the fact that these electronics are broken up from your first post!

Cunsiderthis

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Sorry but why do you keep using the word smithereens? I think we got the fact that these electronics are broken up from your first post!

I think "smithereens" is a grand word, and it also illustrates quite well that they are pretty comprehensively smashed up, and not merely placed in a skip in a state of near completeness.

In any case, I think the point is that I am interested to learn what it means to "recycle" them, and how this "recycling" turns them into something useful.

oppenheimer1

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I think "smithereens" is a grand word, and it also illustrates quite well that they are pretty comprehensively smashed up, and not merely placed in a skip in a state of near completeness.

In any case, I think the point is that I am interested to learn what it means to "recycle" them, and how this "recycling" turns them into something useful.

They extract the valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths. melt them down and reuse them in new electronics. Old electronics, even in a working state aren't much use.

A side note but related is that "mining" a landfill can often produce more aluminium than a bauxite mine per tonne of spoil.

Cunsiderthis

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They extract the valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths. melt them down and reuse them in new electronics. Old electronics, even in a working state aren't much use.

A side note but related is that "mining" a landfill can often produce more aluminium than a bauxite mine per tonne of spoil.

Thats interesting. I would have thought thats more complicated to do when the whole pc is smashed up in a skip, rather than left whole.

Do you know where the extraction of the "valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths" takes place? And how "they" ( do you know who does this?) separates them all from the glass shards, and metal shards, plastics and other non valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths etc as they are all mixed up in the smithereens in the skip?

What happens all the glass shards etc etc which are not melted down?

oppenheimer1

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Thats interesting. I would have thought thats more complicated to do when the whole pc is smashed up in a skip, rather than left whole.

Do you know where the extraction of the "valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths" takes place? And how "they" ( do you know who does this?) separates them all from the glass shards, and metal shards, plastics and other non valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths etc as they are all mixed up in the smithereens in the skip?

What happens all the glass shards etc etc which are not melted down?

Incineration, magnets, smelting and acid baths among others are used to seperate the metals from non metals. Different techniques are used for different substances. I'm not sure what happens to plastic as a lot of plastics in electronics cannot be recycled due to the treatments it has undergone for fire retardation etc. I can't say i'm sure I know what happens to the glass as CRT glass is lead glass. I'm guessing it undergoes some sort of treatment to remove the lead. Whether the remaining glass can be reused after the process I don't know I'm afraid.

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I have no idea what happens old computers after they are smashed to smithereens.

The constituent materials are recovered and recycled.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

But I am do think it's unlikely that, after they are so smitheeringly smashed, they are put to much useful use.

They’re not (as computers) – they’re recycled.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

It is interesting to learn in what sense they are "recycled", after being smashed to smithereens.

They are “recycled” in the same sense that smashed bottles in bottle banks are “recycled”.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

As a postscript, what is recycling, if it's not reusing?

Recycle: process materials for use in creating new products
Reuse: use a product or component in its original form more than once

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Do you know where the extraction of the "valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths" takes place?

In treatment and processing plants in Ireland and the rest of the EU.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

And how "they" ( do you know who does this?) separates them all from the glass shards, and metal shards, plastics and other non valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths etc as they are all mixed up in the smithereens in the skip?

What happens all the glass shards etc etc which are not melted down?

Could we possibly drop the “smithereens” description at this point? Somehow I doubt that dropping electronics into a skip reduces the appliances to a pile of shards and small fragments.

Cunsiderthis

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Incineration, magnets, smelting and acid baths among others are used to seperate the metals from non metals. Different techniques are used for different substances. I'm not sure what happens to plastic as a lot of plastics in electronics cannot be recycled due to the treatments it has undergone for fire retardation etc. I can't say i'm sure I know what happens to the glass as CRT glass is lead glass. I'm guessing it undergoes some sort of treatment to remove the lead. Whether the remaining glass can be reused after the process I don't know I'm afraid.

Sure, I know the theory about what might happen. I'm wondering what actually happens after these skips become full of not just pc's but rainwater etc too. I'd love t know where they are taken to and where the recycling takes place.

You'll have picked up from my posts that I am a little sceptical and, while I know what the word recycling means, I am wondering where it takes place and how it takes place!

It's interesting to see that the list of goods that are "recycled" includes * Aluminium Trays
* Bathroom Suites
* Beds
* Bicycles
* Books
* Cans
* Cardboard
* Carpets
* Chairs
* Clothes (Non Reusable)
* Clothes (Reusable)
* Cookers
* Curtains
* Cutlery/Delph
* Duvets
* DVD players
* Electrical Goods
* Food Processors
* Food Tins
* Furniture
* Garden Waste
* Glass
* Grass cuttings
* Kettles
* Lamps
* Lawnmowers
* Linens
* Lockers
* Magazines
* Mattresses
* Metal Oil Tanks
* Newspapers & Magazines
* Paper
* Plastic Bags
* Plastic bottles
* Plastic Milk Bottles
* Plastic Oil Tanks
* Plastic Packaging
* Printers
* Prunnings
* Radios
* Rags/Material
* Rubble
* Scrap Metal
* Shampoo Bottles
* Shoes (Non Reusable)
* Shoes (Reusable)
* Soil
* Stereos
* Suites
* Tables
* Telephones
* Tetrapak
* Timber
* Toasters
* Tumble dryers
* VCRs
* Wardrobes
* Washing machines
* Washing Up Liquid Bottles
* Wood
* Car batteries
* Engine oil
* Fluorescent tubes
* Freezers
* Fridge
* Gas Cylinders
* Household batteries
* Ink Cartridges
* IT Equipment
* Light bulbs
* Medicines
* Paints
* Print Cartridges
* Toner Cartridges
* TVs
* Weed Killers

I'm very interested in recycling and would love to know how, for example, paints and VCR's and toasters and Rubble and prunings are recycled? Presumably there are not may useful bits in VCR's which anyone wants, so wonder that happens all the other bits no one wants? The idea of recycling rubble is a lovely idea, although it does not seem readily apparent how this might be achieved.

What I dislike very much is hubris, and we need evidence that "recycling" isn't just a new word for "dumping". Certainly, I know that all the commercial garbage companies now have abandoned the word "garbage" and now our bins are tipped into the same truck, in the same way, except the truck now has replaced the word "garbage" for "Recycling", even though it still makes the same trip to the landfill afterwards where it deposits the stuff it has colelcted in the same way as before. All that seems to have changed is the language.

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

The constituent materials are recovered and recycled.

So you say but you do the thing you often accuse others of doing, and don't produce any evidence for it. I'd love to believe it's true, and look forward to your evidence of what happens the PC's after they have been smashed up in the skip.

djpbarry wrote: »

Somehow I doubt that dropping electronics into a skip reduces the appliances to a pile of shards and small fragments.

That depends on the height of the "drop" and suggests you have not seen for yourself how high the drop is above the skips.

kippy

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Thats interesting. I would have thought thats more complicated to do when the whole pc is smashed up in a skip, rather than left whole.

Do you know where the extraction of the "valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths" takes place? And how "they" ( do you know who does this?) separates them all from the glass shards, and metal shards, plastics and other non valuable metals, copper, gold, platinum, rare earths etc as they are all mixed up in the smithereens in the skip?

What happens all the glass shards etc etc which are not melted down?

You should watch the discovery channel more often.
The have a number of "HOw do they do it" type shows where similiar equipment to PC's are "recycled".
Some parts are whole reused again, however most of the older stuff is broken up.
Water is not an issue when breaking up machines.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-491010353871402744&ei=MTVpS-L4K5HW-AashO2xDw&q=what+happens+a+Computer+recycle&hl=en#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0YdFJk4nkQ
Some, recycle, some reuse, and some just get put into the landfill no doubt,
Kippy

Turtwig

kippy wrote: »

You should watch the discovery channel more often.
The have a number of "HOw do they do it" type shows where similiar equipment to PC's are "recycled".
Some parts are whole reused again, however most of the older stuff is broken up.
Water is not an issue when breaking up machines.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-491010353871402744&ei=MTVpS-L4K5HW-AashO2xDw&q=what+happens+a+Computer+recycle&hl=en#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0YdFJk4nkQ
Some, recycle, some reuse, and some just get put into the landfill no doubt,
Kippy

Edit : Ah rats, just noticed your lighting edit

Cunsiderthis

kippy wrote: »

You should watch the discovery channel more often.
The have a number of "HOw do they do it" type shows where similiar equipment to PC's are "recycled".
Some parts are whole reused again, however most of the older stuff is broken up.
Water is not an issue when breaking up machines.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-491010353871402744&ei=MTVpS-L4K5HW-AashO2xDw&q=what+happens+a+Computer+recycle&hl=en#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0YdFJk4nkQ
Some, recycle, some reuse, and some just get put into the landfill no doubt,
Kippy

I don't have a tv so have no idea what is on the discovery channel. Did it have a programme on what happens in irish recycling centers where the PC's a re first hurled into a skip and smashed up? Or was their programme about somewhere in the USA or elsewhere? How do you reuse parts "whole" if they have been smashed up in a skip?

In the above video, we see some men lovingly carrying coumpters from an office to a facility where they are disassembled and the valuable bits extracted. Nowhere does it show pc's being, first, hurled into a skip and smashed to smitereens as a first step!

kippy

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I don't have a tv so have no idea what is on the discovery channel. Did it have a programme on what happens in irish recycling centers where the PC's a re first hurled into a skip and smashed up? Or was their programme about somewhere in the USA or elsewhere? How do you reuse parts "whole" if they have been smashed up in a skip?

In the above video, we see some men lovingly carrying coumpters from an office to a facility where they are disassembled and the valuable bits extracted. Nowhere does it show pc's being, first, hurled into a skip and smashed to smitereens as a first step!

The metals and plastics withing the PC unit can be easily sepperated once smashed up......can you not get this concept.........even with water around them........

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Certainly, I know that all the commercial garbage companies now have abandoned the word "garbage" and now our bins are tipped into the same truck, in the same way, except the truck now has replaced the word "garbage" for "Recycling", even though it still makes the same trip to the landfill afterwards where it deposits the stuff it has colelcted in the same way as before.

Enough of the unsubstantiated claims please.

Pete M.

Of course damaged electronic items can be recycled. You are getting it confused with reuse.
If a hundred old PCs are thrown into a skip and smashed, then they extract the different materials like plastic, steel, copper etc. and recycle this into new products.
There is some reuse, but generally not from civic amenity sites etc. (unless it is one of the bucks you see around doing things like taking out RAM, plugs, peripherals etc., but generally WEEE is recycled as opposed to reused.

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Sure, I know the theory about what might happen. I'm wondering what actually happens after these skips become full of not just pc's but rainwater etc too.
...
You'll have picked up from my posts that I am a little sceptical...

What I’ve “picked up” from your posts, and I suspect others have too, is that you’re quite obviously implying that appliances designated for recycling are not being recycled at all. If you’re going to make such a claim, the onus is on you to back it up with something.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

It's interesting to see that the list of goods that are "recycled" includes...

I have no idea why that’s interesting, but anyway, this thread is about WEEE, so let’s stick with that.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Presumably there are not may useful bits in VCR's which anyone wants, so wonder that happens all the other bits no one wants?

The recovery rate is (obviously) not 100% (as that would be impossible), if that’s what you’re getting at.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

So you say but you do the thing you often accuse others of doing, and don't produce any evidence for it. I'd love to believe it's true, and look forward to your evidence of what happens the PC's after they have been smashed up in the skip.

The EPA’s National Waste Report (2008) states that "component, material and substance reuse and recycling” exceeds 72% (by weight) for small appliances collected in Ireland and exceeds 81% for large appliances. Do you have any reason to believe that this is not the case?

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

Enough of the unsubstantiated claims please.

Our bins have just been collected by a garbage truck. [MODEDIT] If you have an issue with this company, take it up with the relevant authority - no need to post their details here. [/MODEDIT] On the side of the garbage truck it says the name of the company, and then it says "Recycling".

they begin their recycling by taking a large Green bin ( 1100 litre) and tipping in into the back of the truck, then taking another and doing the same. this is the kitchen non recyclabe waste and the bins stink and are also full of water etc when it is wet.

Then, curiously, they take the other two bins we have (also 1100 lites bins) into which we have put all out recyclables such as cardboard, paper, packaging, polystyrene etc etc, and they dump them on top of the first two stinky bins and then mix it all up with one of those two sweeper things at the back of what is a very usual domestic/commercial bin truck.

I asked the operator how they then recycle the recyclables, since they are now mixed up with the stinkey stuff, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know.

I'm sure they are meticulous about recycling and wonder why they mix up all the clean recyclables ( we normally wash out plastics etc as advised) with the stinkey and wet other bins as it must make it very unpleasant and makes unnecessary work to separate it all out again. presumably they also have to rewash our old yoghurt cartons etc too.

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

What I’ve “picked up” from your posts, and I suspect others have too, is that you’re quite obviously implying that appliances designated for recycling are not being recycled at all.

If thats what you have "picked up" then you are incorrect. I have given the evidence seen by my own eyes, ( and available to anyone else from here to go see as I have even named one of the facilities), and have asked what is the point of smashing pc's to smithereens which are then going to be recycled, as it seems to make the job of recycling much more difficult and expensive.

And that got me wondering how the word "recycling" is used, as it implies to most of us pretty much the same thing, and further wondered if it was now a word that has pretty much lost its original meaning, as seems to be the case in that almost all garbage companies now tip the garbage into a truck with the word "recycling" on the side....

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Our bins have just been collected by a garbage truck.
...

That’s a wonderful story – I presume you have relayed it to your local authority or management company?

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I have given the evidence seen by my own eyes...

As I have explained to you before, anecdotal evidence doesn’t count for much on an anonymous internet discussion forum.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

...what is the point of smashing pc's to smithereens which are then going to be recycled, as it seems to make the job of recycling much more difficult and expensive.

This has been answered several times now – may I suggest you read up on how electronic devices are recycled?

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

And that got me wondering how the word "recycling" is used, as it implies to most of us pretty much the same thing...

Evidently, it does not.

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

As I have explained to you before, anecdotal evidence doesn’t count for much on an anonymous internet discussion forum.

Ouch!

Perhaps you misunderstand. I am here to contribute to threads which i find interesting. As far as I am aware, we are not forbidden to use evidence gleaned from personal experience.

djpbarry wrote: »

This has been answered several times now – may I suggest you read up on how electronic devices are recycled?

I have done and no where did I read that the processing of electronic equipment, such as pc's, begins with them being smashed to smithereens by being hurled into a large metal skip from on high.

Simply suggesting that someone reads up on something, or quoting passages of the thoery of recycling, does not answer a specific question, which I asked, which was if anyone knows what happens these pc's which I have seen, (and which you can go see to if you want to) being hurled into a skip and smashed up beyond recognition.

djpbarry

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

I am here to contribute to threads which i find interesting. As far as I am aware, we are not forbidden to use evidence gleaned from personal experience.

No, you are not. However, as I have explained to you before, if everyone on this forum were to base their arguments/discussion solely on personal experience, then threads would become pretty farcical, pretty quickly, and the level of discourse would obviously suffer as a result.

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Simply suggesting that someone reads up on something, or quoting passages of the thoery of recycling, does not answer a specific question, which I asked, which was if anyone knows what happens these pc's which I have seen, (and which you can go see to if you want to) being hurled into a skip and smashed up beyond recognition.

Ok. We get it. You (claim you) saw PC’s being smashed. No need to repeat it in every single post.

What you seem either unable or unwilling to accept is that damaged electronic devices can still be recycled, in the same way that the constituent materials of a compacted car can be recovered and recycled. Based on the fact that putting these devices straight into landfill is now illegal, coupled with the evidence presented in the EPA report I linked to earlier, it is reasonable to conclude that the appliances in question are being recycled. Do you have any evidence, any at all, which suggests that the appliances in question are not being recycled?

Cunsiderthis

djpbarry wrote: »

What you seem either unable or unwilling to accept is that damaged electronic devices can still be recycled,

No, I don't, and if that's what you have read into what I have said then you are wrong. It's such a shame you can't read what i said and accept it, rather than misinterpreting it and assuming I have said something I have not said!

What I said is that it seems an unusual way to "recycle" goods by first smashing them up in a skip, which icnludes glass, plactics etc etc and would seem, on the face of it, to make it more complicatd and more expensive to have to wade through all the broken glass and plastics etc etc to find the bits which are to be recycled.

Then I went on to pnder about the word Recycled and to ponder if its meaning was quite what we might assume.

ectoraige

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Then I went on to pnder about the word Recycled and to ponder if its meaning was quite what we might assume.

I don't know what you assume, but I'll tell you my understanding of it.

When a product is recycled, it is destroyed and the constituent parts which can be used in producing another product are extracted. In a few cases this might be a straight "swap" of old for new, but this would be the exception, not the rule. In most cases, old products will be either be used to create a related but inferior product - paper to cardboard, for example. In other cases, constituent parts will be salvaged and used as brand new raw materials, for example, extracting copper parts from electronics and resmelting it. I think almost half of our copper supply is recycled. The leftovers from all of this then do end up as pure waste, which has to be dealt with. Some energy recovery might happen at this stage, for example producing biogas from anaerobic digestion, but the rest will ultimately end up in a landfill.

Some people seem to confuse recycling with reusing - thinking perhaps that the ring elements of their old cooker will be stripped off and sent back to the factory. We have spent decades pushing the importance of recycling, when really it's the last-gasp shot at achieving some semblance of sustainability. We should have spent a lot more effort promoting the earlier stages in the cycle, reduction, and reuse. The idea of zero-waste is likely going to remain nothing more than a laudable goal until people are fully engaged right at the very start of the chain, by avoiding unnecessary consumption in the first place.

In terms of your waste company, it might be explained because recycling facilities have to hand sort the recyclables anyway, the public are really only doing a rough pre-sorting for them. If domestic waste and recycling is being mixed in the truck, it could be because it's cheaper for that company to sort it later in their facility, than to send a truck out again for another collection on that route. I guess it depends on the company/facility. At the very least, I imagine there would be clumps of recycling and clumps of waste when the truck is emptied, it wouldn't be entirely mixed. Also, doing this, the facility will get to pick out some of the valuable waste from the domestic waste that people didn't even make an attempt to recycle.

Perhaps you should give the company a call and ask them directly?

Capt'n Midnight

How green is it to use old equipment ?

newer equipment uses less power, so it could cost less over a year or two than paying the electricity for older equipment

then again the energy used in manufacture is probably a lot more, and much of it in lower tax areas so you can't just work on the financial cost



minimum spec for third world charities would be high spec PIII's , don't think any school or local Irish charity would take less than P4 at this stage

aluminum is pure electricity and its one of the key metals to get recycled

robtri

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How green is it to use old equipment ?

newer equipment uses less power, so it could cost less over a year or two than paying the electricity for older equipment

then again the energy used in manufacture is probably a lot more, and much of it in lower tax areas so you can't just work on the financial cost



minimum spec for third world charities would be high spec PIII's , don't think any school or local Irish charity would take less than P4 at this stage

aluminum is pure electricity and its one of the key metals to get recycled

you are confusing "green" with what costs you less ........

Cunsiderthis

robtri wrote: »

you are confusing "green" with what costs you less ........

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How green is it to use old equipment ?

newer equipment uses less power,

I didn't read that he was in the least confused, and I read that as newer equipment uses less power, we ahve to produce less electricity and, consequently, use less fossil fuels.

Is that not what was meant?

Cheeble

I don't think either of you has accurately reflected CM's contribution, and I think CM deserves more credit for a thoughtful and insightful post.

CM started with the observation that new equipment might be more energy efficient.

Then went on to qualify this by considering the energy used in manufacture before pointing out that it is erroneous simply to conflate the financial costs with the green question.

CM also highlighted that old equipment cannot be reused if it's obsolete.

The comment that "aluminium is pure electricity" is perhaps less factually correct, but I get the gist of it.

I don't think it's possible to provide a universal answer to the re-use versus recycle question: each individual case needs to be judged on its merits.

Cheeble-eers

Poochie05

Cheeble wrote: »

...
I don't think it's possible to provide a universal answer to the re-use versus recycle question: each individual case needs to be judged on its merits.

Cheeble-eers

+1
and that's why there is a whole research discipline involved in life cycle assessments and why there is often no clear answer when someone ask which is best.
Off topic but as an example, which is best real nappies or disposable? - research has shown that it depends on what washing and drying procedures you use. Real nappies are only better if you adhere to strict washing procedures at low temperatures, or better still in central laundries, use natural drying methods and it changes over time as technology involved in manufacturing disposable nappies changes.

Cunsiderthis

Poochie05 wrote: »

Off topic but as an example, which is best real nappies or disposable? - research has shown that it depends on what washing and drying procedures you use. Real nappies are only better if you adhere to strict washing procedures at low temperatures, or better still in central laundries, use natural drying methods and it changes over time as technology involved in manufacturing disposable nappies changes.

Best might also include a measure of convenience, as most parents opt for disposable nappies for the sheer convenience. "real" nappies involve literally dealing with poo, whereas disposable ones neatly sidestep having to get too close to it, which is why most parents opt for disposabale nappies.

Over the life of most humans, disposable nappies probably add less than 0.05% of the carbon footprint, and are really small pretty small change.