BBC, ITV etc. license fee query

muchos04

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if people in the U.K. pay their license fee each year for the BBC then how is it people in the Republic of Ireland can pick up the channels without paying anything. Is this a bone of contention in the U.K. and if so is there any impending changes due on the horizon to prevent us receiving the channels on for example a free to air box?

Regards

Mayo Exile

You pay a license to the state for the ownership of a television set. You are then entitled to pick up any free to air (FTA) broadcasts with it. Many people in NI, and probably Western Wales and England receive RTE as well but will pay a license in the same way there. There's nothing illegal in watching other country's TV channels if you are receiving them via terrestrial (through a TV aerial) or satellite footprint overspill I believe.

deanh

The BBC is almost entirely funded by the license fee and hence carries no advertising. Other channels rely on advertising. Most Irish viewers subscribe to UPC cable or Sky satelite and a high % of the monthly fees(c. €30) are paid to the broadcasters. BBC/ITV etc. have opted to go free to air on satelite(Freesat) to ensure that all U.K. homes have access to digital tv. They cannot prevent Irish homes from accessing the service but there are no reliable figures for those who do. The loss of income is not significant in the U.K. context ( Pop: 60 million) and there is always the prospect of recouping some revenue through irish opt-out advertising (UTV/Channel 4).

Antenna

We have been able to receive channels (which receive licence fee funding) from other EU countries FTA on satellite for many years.....

Mike 1972

muchos04 wrote: »

then how is it people in the Republic of Ireland can pick up the channels without paying anything.

Because thankfully the laws of physics override the laws of the land (e.g nobody has ever come up with with a way of making radio/TV signals abruptly stop at national boundries)

winston_1

It not would be nice if Irish channels were FTA on satellite as well so we could receive them here. Be good for Ireland as well not having to pay Murdoch to recieve their own channels off satellite.

STB

It would be nice Winston but unfortunately the programme rights holders would be looking for more money which we dont have (our licence base is apx 1.4million afaik) to compete with the rights that go with broadcasting to 60 million punters.

coylemj

The Irish cable TV operators came to an agreement long ago with the BBC and I believe they now pay some kind of royalty to distribute the BBC channels to their customers.

Mossy Monk

winston_1 wrote: »

It not would be nice if Irish channels were FTA on satellite as well so we could receive them here. Be good for Ireland as well not having to pay Murdoch to recieve their own channels off satellite.

Who would pay the programming rights? RTÉ certainly cannot afford them.

mrdtv

coylemj wrote: »

The Irish cable TV operators came to an agreement long ago with the BBC and I believe they now pay some kind of royalty to distribute the BBC channels to their customers.

They should ask to have it for free now as all PSB UK TV services are now free to air via satellite via Sky and Freesat. The current situation is farcical and should any Irish DTT operation ever emerge from the current trainwreck they should also push for FTA retransmission as otherwise their customers will migrate to satellite .

coylemj

mrdtv wrote: »

They should ask to have it for free now as all PSB UK TV services are now free to air via satellite via Sky and Freesat. The current situation is farcical and should any Irish DTT operation ever emerge from the current trainwreck they should also push for FTA retransmission as otherwise their customers will migrate to satellite .

The channels are free to receive by an individual or single business, the BBC demanded a royalty payment because the cable operators were distributing the BBC signals for a fee and they rightly demanded a slice of the action.

In the case of commercial channels such as UTV and Channel 4, they have no problem with someone propagating their signals to a bigger audience because they can charge more for advertising but the BBC adopted a different stance since they derive no commercial benefit from having an audience outside the UK, if anything it's a disadvantage because then they can't expect the same revenue when selling their programmes to RTE because half the potential audience will have already seen the programme e.g. Life or Planet Earth etc.

icdg

To address the OP's points:

muchos04 wrote: »

how is it people in the Republic of Ireland can pick up the channels without paying anything

The majority of people do not pick the channels without paying anything. Most people who have the BBC do so so through a cable or Sky subscription. There has always been some who have been able to pick up the channels terrestrially (the BBC used to write this off as "fortuitious reception"!) and now there are some who have FTA satellite recievers. But cable/Sky is still the biggest way to pick up the channels - there are now over 1m households who subscribe to one or the other and this would make up the vast majority of ROI households.

Is this a bone of contention in the U.K.

In my experience, not in general, because your average "man on the street" in the UK is not aware that the BBC is so generally available in ROI. It is even less well known that several continental countries (in particular the Benelux countries) also had (and in some cases continue to have) access to BBC domestic channels on cable.

It might be that were this to be well known the situation might change and there have been some internet forum arguments on this matter but in general this is confined to a minority "in the know" and doesn't generally trouble most British people.

if so is there any impending changes due on the horizon to prevent us receiving the channels on for example a free to air box?

Not likely, because the BBC have spent so much energy trying to ensure their channels ARE available on a free-to-air box. The only way to stop reception in ROI is go back cap-in-hand to NDS and licence VideoGuard again (thus once again placing access to the BBC's services on satellite in the hands of Rupert Murdoch, the avoidance of which was a key policy objective in going free-to-air in the first place).

Mike 1972

icdg wrote: »

In my experience, not in general, because your average "man on the street" in the UK is not aware that the BBC is so generally available in ROI. It is even less well known that several continental countries (in particular the Benelux countries) also had (and in some cases continue to have) access to BBC domestic channels on cable.

It might be that were this to be well known the situation might change and there have been some internet forum arguments on this matter but in general this is confined to a minority "in the know" and doesn't generally trouble most British people.

Damn all they could do about it anyway. Besides the Irish/Dutch cable companies have to pay royalties to the Beeb so its an extra source of revenue.

The only way to stop reception in ROI is go back cap-in-hand to NDS and licence VideoGuard again (thus once again placing access to the BBC's services on satellite in the hands of Rupert Murdoch, the avoidance of which was a key policy objective in going free-to-air in the first place).

In theory they could go for a third party encryprtion system. In practice the uproar which would ensue from (among others) those who bought into Freesat mean the Beeb will be sttaying FTA for the forseeable future

L1011

Most of the truely future proof Freesat boxes (DVB-S2 units) have a CI slot, but irrespective of that I agree that they're not going to go to encryption again due to FTA satellite being the offered alternative to Freeview in poor coverage areas.

The Cush

muchos04 wrote: »

Just wondering if people in the U.K. pay their license fee each year for the BBC then how is it people in the Republic of Ireland can pick up the channels without paying anything. Is this a bone of contention in the U.K. and if so is there any impending changes due on the horizon to prevent us receiving the channels on for example a free to air box?

To answer your first question the Audiovisual Media Services Directive (AVMSD) Directive 2007/65/EC of 11 December 2007 previously the Television without Frontiers Directive (TVwFD) states

Article 2a

1. Member States shall ensure freedom of reception and shall not
restrict retransmissions on their territory of audiovisual media services
from other Member States for reasons which fall within the fields coordinated
by this Directive.

Basically you can legally receive the overspill FTA terrestrial or satellite broadcasts and our authorities cannot restrict your reception of these broadcasts (unless under certain conditions). The issue of overspill, satellite and cable broadcasting within the EU goes back to a 1984 green paper COM(84)300.

Your second question, there are no plans to encrypt analogue, freeview or freesat overspill transmissions to Ireland, Benelux or France because in doing so it would also have the same effect on the UK population. Its in the name - freeview / freesat. Conditional Access (CA) is not part of the freesat spec. If it were to happen it would have to be called something like encrypted-view or encrypted-sat or Sky

coylemj wrote: »

The Irish cable TV operators came to an agreement long ago with the BBC and I believe they now pay some kind of royalty to distribute the BBC channels to their customers.

They were required to under EU regulations - Council Directive 93/83/EEC of 27 September 1993 aka the “cable and satellite Directive”.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Damn all they could do about it anyway. Besides the Irish/Dutch cable companies have to pay royalties to the Beeb so its an extra source of revenue.

Yes the cable companies pay a copyright fee, collected by BBC Worldwide I think (2001 & 2002 info). They are only carried on cable systems around Europe that I know of, not pay DTT or satellite, e.g. http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/04/24/bbc-remains-cable-only-in-holland/.

BBC requesting more money for Dutch cable delivery

December 11th, 2006 - 9:25 UTC by Andy Sennitt.

The BBC is looking to make far more money from the provision of BBC1 and BBC2 to cable systems in the Netherlands and Belgium. Up to now, the cable operators have paid an amount to cover copyright issues, as part of an agreement covering all foreign TV channels provided on cable. But with effect from 1st January, delivery of BBC1 and BBC2 is contingent upon a payment of 31 cents per household per month to BBC World. Given that there are 6 million cable households in the Netherlands, that would amount to 22.3 million euros a year.

http://blogs.rnw.nl/medianetwork/bbc-requesting-more-money-from-dutch-cable-delivery

Update: I believe there is an Irish Cable Holders Rights Agreement to which ITVNL, BBC, C4, Irish Cable Operators, and Irish collection agencies are signatories. Couldn't find any specific information on them other than this Ofcom document.

muchos04

Thanks very much guys for all the very interesting and informative responses. There's lots of good information here.

bealfeirste5

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Because thankfully the laws of physics override the laws of the land (e.g nobody has ever come up with with a way of making radio/TV signals abruptly stop at national boundries)

Very interesting!! Never actually thought about this until now!

Mike 1972

muchos04 wrote: »

Is this a bone of contention in the U.K.

A lot of people in Northern Ireland (and parts of Wales) can -if prepared to go to the trouble/expense of putting up a second aerial (or subscribing to cable/$ky) get RTE without paying the Southern licence fee.

RTE (unlike the Beeb) actively facilitate this by their deal with $Ky and by locating a couple of their transmitters conveniently closer to the border.

Ive never heard anyone in the Republic complain about this.