Donegal Cllr thinks economic recovery will be hampered with By-Election

Het-Field

http://www.highlandradio.com/2010/01/14/fianna-fail-councillor-questions-calls-for-donegal-by-election/

Is this acceptable ? The current Dail is set to run for another 2 1/2 years. Surely the people of Donegal are entitled to full representation, in spite of what some people might say.

Erin Go Brath

FF obviously don't fancy their chances in this one, otherwise they'd be calling for the by-election asap.

Of course this is unacceptable, but its FF so what do you expect, morals, ethics, doing the right thing???

ednwireland

FF councillor doesnt want a by election at the moment now theres a suprise, it should happen asap as far as i am concerned, and there should be a law change that says a seat cannot be left vacant for more than a certain period off time (say 16 weeks) after being vacated due to death or whatever.

people here are sick of not having their full quota of representatives in the dail

thebman

Is anyone surprised?

Just look at their popularity. Its scary to think that the man thinks this will be acceptable

nesf

Acceptable? No. Predictable? Yes.

Sleepy

What damage to the economy could a by election cause unless all those running are planning on getting their posters printed across the border?

Red_Marauder

I actually think the last thing the country needs now is a general election. The Government is on a tightrope at the moment with regard to its flimsy majority. If something happened to Michael Lowry's support and the Government lose this bye-election (which they almost certainly will), then that's a prospect we're facing as a nation.

Markets want to feel confident about the leadership of this country. Like it or not, an election would compromise that, given that FG are opposed to NAMA, and have laid down different plans than the ones currently inspring confidence both at EU level and further afield.

I would like to see a general election after 2010, when Fine Gael will be able to take the helm with a more stable economy in place and the trust of international investors and lenders more assuredly galvanised. I don't think we can afford this bye-election in the long term economic sense.

Dr. Baltar

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I actually think the last thing the country needs now is a general election. The Government is on a tightrope at the moment with regard to its flimsy majority. If something happened to Michael Lowry's support and the Government lose this bye-election (which they almost certainly will), then that's a prospect we're facing as a nation.

Markets want to feel confident about the leadership of this country. Like it or not, an election would compromise that, given that FG are opposed to NAMA, and have laid down different plans than the ones currently inspring confidence both at EU level and further afield.

I would like to see a general election after 2010, when Fine Gael will be able to take the helm with a more stable economy in place and the trust of international investors and lenders more assuredly galvanised. I don't think we can afford this bye-election in the long term economic sense.

One cannot put a price on democracy. :mad:

bmaxi

Personally I think FF would love a General Election right now, it would mean someone else would have to clean up their s*it.
The only problem they face is that should a General Election, which they would most certainly lose, be held, an incoming Government would not set the same parameters for the various enquiries to due to be held into the fiasco that has overtaken the country.
It has already been seen that FF is testing the water on the banking enquiry by "suggesting" it might be held in private.
This suggestion will be quietly shelved when it become apparent that public opinion will not tolerate it and Cowen & Co. will pronouce, with injured dignity, that it "was never a runner" and it was "taken out of context", the usual codswallop.
Meanwhile, ways will be sought to delay the enquiry until such times as, as much of the damning evidence as possible, can be watered down. We're not dealing with amateurs here.

Red_Marauder

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

One cannot put a price on democracy. :mad:

I disagree. The price is doing as little as possible to rock the economic boat in order to preserve and improve the image of Ireland as slightly less of an economic leper as was previously thought.

I would have liked to have seen FG win power in the last election, but we are now very much mid stream in this economic downturn and changing horses shouldn't be a serious option just yet. I really don't think investors would feel very assured with the Government losing any further support and opposition parties with wrecking balls for current recovery policy.

The constituency is already represented by the Tánaiste of the country Mary Coughlan, and the opposition spokesperson for Rural, Community and Gaeltacht affairs in the Dáil , Dinny McGinley. I don't we can count Donegal South West as a non-democracy just yet.

Biggins

Het-Field wrote: »

http://www.highlandradio.com/2010/01/14/fianna-fail-councillor-questions-calls-for-donegal-by-election/

Is this acceptable ? The current Dail is set to run for another 2 1/2 years. Surely the people of Donegal are entitled to full representation, in spite of what some people might say.

Surely there might be a case (by the opposition) for taking this issue to the courts somehow?
It seems more daftness of the highest order. I bet the people in that district are not too impressed.

Cork Boy

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I disagree. The price is doing as little as possible to rock the economic boat in order to preserve and improve the image of Ireland as slightly less of an economic leper as was previously thought.

... changing horses shouldn't be a serious option just yet. .

because flogging a dead one is the way to go. Sure its stable, but when we're trying to go uphill the dead horse will only drag us down.

Red buddy, fair play for hitting the nail on the head: "doing as little as possible" is the motto of our current cabinet.

Red_Marauder

There was an economist on Morning Ireland this morning from the ESRI who made a very clear point about this issue. He said there are three potential road blocks to Irelands longterm economic recovery. To paraphrase:

(1) The world economy doesn't recover
(2) The Government's recovery plan as currently receiving international approval is hampered
(3) Our export market doesn't price itself back into competition

We cannot afford for any one of these events to occur. If a general election is forced upon us, partially through losing this bye-election, then parties who are opposed to the current recovery plan will come to power.
I am sure that even on the Fine Gael front bench, there is unease about the prospect of coming to power too early and being faced with the prospect of altering the current economic roadmap.
Fine Gael are opposed to NAMA. How on Earth would the party get over that if there was an election in the morning? How do you think markets would react to that kind of uncertainty?

There will be an election within the next two years, when the economy has started to gain some momentum. Like them or not, the Government are presenting their case well to the world for our economic future. Personally, I find that far more important than some regional bye-election on the fringes of this country and on the very fringes of relevance.

Cork Boy

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Personally, I find that far more important than some regional bye-election on the fringes of this country and on the very fringes of relevance.

Spoken like a true Dub.

skelliser

i cant wait for the election, like what platform are ff gonna run on?! track record over the last 10 years?! lol!
they are gonna get such an ass whomping!

Cork Boy

Aw bless your innocence

No offence, but they will get at least 20% of the vote. FF could incinerate kittens and puppies while along with the constitution and still receive 20% of the vote.

skelliser

i know they will get ~20% but all the high profile casualties and general disasterous campaign, il be happy
in truth tho i reckon there core vote will begin to decline in future

Cork Boy

Completely agree. I've alluded to this in a previous thread regarding a red c poll which found the core FF vote was mainly in the 65+ age group.

As crass as it sounds, the core vote is dying off every day and that's a fact.

I don't like any party having a core/die hard vote, the whole electorate should be swinging voters in my opinion.

skelliser

if anything ff have instilled a new anti-ff core vote! lol!
The vast majority of my friends, mid to late twenties wouldnt touch them, with even more joining the ranks during this recession, and although we are a professional independent bunch at the mo come ten years when our age bracket comes into the middle class, buying houses, having children etc. ff will be seriously found out.

The experts say the repurcussions of the recession, nama etc will last 20 years, how about the repurcussions for ff! A sinking ship....

Devs party has long been raped and destroyed from within

Red_Marauder

Cork Boy wrote: »

Spoken like a true Dub.

Not that it's relevant but I grew up in rural Tipperary, and my industry relies primarily on agriculture.. I am neither Dublin-centric, nor a Dubliner.
But I do think the country has more serious worries than a backwater bye election in a constituency that is already well represented. Namely, how international markets perceive our economic stability.

Do you seriously think a general election would bode well for this country at such a crucial time?

maynooth_rules

skelliser wrote: »

i cant wait for the election, like what platform are ff gonna run on?! track record over the last 10 years?! lol!
they are gonna get such an ass whomping!

They probably won't though. A decent percentage of the Irish electorate are incredibly stupid. In any other country a party like Fianna Fail would be completly, utterly and deservedly destroyed at the next election. But in this tribal, civil war split, vote the way your daddy did, land that we live in, Fianna Fail can do what the **** they like and a large number of morons will still vote for them.

Cork Boy

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Do you seriously think a general election would bode well for this country at such a crucial time?

Yes, yes I do.

I would rather a surgeon come in and cut me open so long as he gets rid of the tumor.

What you are saying is we should let the malignant rot fester away under the skin, just to keep up appearances.

Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way down to the bone.

Liam Byrne

I think it's absolutely AMAZING that the people who have been spouting on other threads about how FF have a mandate due to democracy and being voted for, and that we're not allowed to question that ....... are now the same people condoning a non-democratic "solution" to keep FF in place.

Cork Boy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think it's absolutely AMAZING that the people who have been spouting on other threads about how FF have a mandate due to democracy and being voted for, and that we're not allowed to question that ....... are now the same people condoning a non-democratic "solution" to keep FF in place.

I don't think it's amazing at all. For FF its "party before country" don't you know?

Red_Marauder

Cork Boy wrote: »

Yes, yes I do.

I would rather a surgeon come in and cut me open so long as he gets rid of the tumor.

What you are saying is we should let the malignant rot fester away under the skin, just to keep up appearances.

Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes all the way down to the bone.

That doesn't mean anything. Could you be more specific on the nature of the malignancy that you are referring to that would be cured by a general election?
I am a Fine Gael voter but I am not so unconcerned with economic stability to think that we need an immediate election as opposed to one nine or twelve months down the line.
I am actually getting pretty sick of seeing Fine Gael messages on my email inbox, sometimes multiple times per day, criticising economic actions that are finding praise in Brussells and on the international markets.
Opposition parties, and we who support them, need to realise that if anything, this stands very much to the Government's credit right now. Brian Lenihan is fighting cancer and fighting a war for economic survival, he's turning into a sort of popular folk hero. And Fianna Fail's quite positive control of the economy as it stands, might cause a considerable portion of the electorate to fear rocking the boat.

A snap election coming on the heels of a bye-election might not have the fantastic results for the opposition that the opposition is capable of.

Liam Byrne

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Brian Lenihan is fighting cancer and fighting a war for economic survival, he's turning into a sort of popular folk hero.

I crossed out the irrelevant bit; while his health is relevant as a human being, it's not relevant to his job - if he can do it, great, and if not, he should resign.

And he's far from a "hero" having signed up to bailing out the cesspit that is Anglo.

Red_Marauder wrote: »

And Fianna Fail's quite positive control of the economy as it stands, might cause a considerable portion of the electorate to fear rocking the boat.

It'd be a hell of a lot better if the said-same Lenihan hadn't stuck a noose around it in the form of NAMA.

Red_Marauder wrote: »

A snap election coming on the heels of a bye-election might not have the fantastic results for the opposition that the opposition is capable of.

Haven't a notion what this means; if they're capable of it, they should get it.

And at the very least it would free us from the grip of the current shower of incompetents.

Red_Marauder

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I crossed out the irrelevant bit; while his health is relevant as a human being, it's not relevant to his job - if he can do it, great, and if not, he should resign.

I think you're missing the point. Brian Lenihan is taking on two Goliaths, people are genuinely impressed by that and while you or I may not be very mindful of his personal life, what matters is the regular voter. In my opinion, most people are very impressed by him right now, they like to see a fighter fight, and while you can insert dash lines on my quote, you definitely can't stop enthusiasm for the finance minister at a ballot box.

And he's far from a "hero" having signed up to bailing out the cesspit that is Anglo.

Anglo isn't being discussed here that's a whole another issue. I said he was turning into a sort of popular folk hero in the eyes of a broad range of people across the electorate. Time will tell the magnitude of that. The views of of myself or my own party are totally insignificant in that respect because we're not the significant portion of the electorate.

Haven't a notion what this means; if they're capable of it, they should get it.

Because of our complex electoral and parochial system, elections are not so black and white as "getting power" or "not getting it"

I'm saying that I think because the next six months will see us locked in a dubious sort of economic limbo while the machinery of recovery is put in place, and while that same machinery is receiving EU and international praise for the Goverment, this would be a problem for the opposition (who are opposed to such schemes) who may face a serious watering down of their potential success.
Fear is a strong election swinger, and it would be very easy for the Government to warn against destroying recovery with untried, unapproved schemes by an inexperienced opposition at this very delicate time.

You may not like that, I may not like that, but I think it would work on quite a lot of people given that this actually is a crucial period for our economic future.

A bye-election is necessary, and a general election is necessary. Are they necessary immediately while we try get back to our feet? Absolutely not.