Puppy/crate Question

Alvie

We are getting our new bichon frise puppy next weekend (sooo excited!), am planning on using a crate with him, but just wondering on his first night here how should i work it?
Should i put him in it the first night or wait til he gets used to it?
Am planning on getting up during the night for a while to let him out to do his business, how often should i do this?
Also is it safe to let him out the back garden (completely enclosed) for brief periods during the day by himself? My hubbie works from home so will be there, so i thought if the weather was reasonable that he might enjoy half an hour of a run around while hubby is working, but himself is worried the neighbour's cats might be at him.
This sounds so stupid when i write it down but I havn't had a puppy since i was 7, and just really want him to be happy and settled with us!
Thanks in advance!!!

Alvie

bump

star-pants

Alvie no need to 'bump' your thread - people will respond when they can if they have the correct information/advice to give you.
I can't give advice on crate training as I've never done it.

supermum1

I would recommend using the crate the first night, the benefit of crate training goes beyond toilet training. It gives the dog a safe place, a place that is just theres. It's especially important for a pup to feel comfortable.

I wouldn't get up during the night, you don't want to build bad habits. You want to teach bladder control. Make sure you let pup out last thing at night and first thing in the morning.

It will be fine to let pup out in the garden for short periods, but keep an eye out for other dogs and also theft!

Whispered

supermum1 wrote: »

I wouldn't get up during the night, you don't want to build bad habits. You want to teach bladder control. Make sure you let pup out last thing at night and first thing in the morning.

If you are crating the pup you absolutely must get up during the night. You cannot teach bladder control to an 8 week old pup! The pup will dirty in the bed, there is no "might" about it, he WILL. This will completly go against the purpose of crate training in the first place and will cause a lot of distress in the pup. Puppies under 4 months of age have little bladder control. Pups under 3 months have even less. Very young puppies under 9 weeks should be brought out very frequently, maybe up to 6 times a night depending on the dog. (this drops dramatically once you get to know your pups routine and after a few days - a week you should get by getting up maybe twice a night). If the dog is forced to go to the toilet in the crate - toilet training will be much harder.

Make sure you choose a correct sized crate, it should be big enough for the adult dog to stand in, sit in, lie flat etc, but small enough to feel safe. You can get some that will have a removable partition part so you can adjust it to suit your pup. I've never used one, but then I had to go and buy a bigger crate when my pup got bigger.

I would also suggest throwing a blanket over the crate, leaving the front open for him to go in and out. It will insulate it during the night and create a nice little cave for your pup.

Try put the crate somewhere you are happy for it to stay. And somewhere the pup can safely watch the comings and goings of the house. Mine is in the corner of the kitchen, which is perfect for us.

With regards to starting with a crate, make it a fun place to be. When you get the pup home have a nice blanket and a bowl of water in the crate, when the pup wants to sleep put him into the crate. When he wants to drink put him into the crate, when it's meal time, put him into the crate. While you are playing, throw the toy into the crate etc. Make it a feature of his first day there, as if it's always been there and is totally normal. During the day, drop a smal treat into the crate and tell pup to go to bed, or whatever words you want to use to teach him to go into the crate, then encourage him in. He'll soon learn that going into the crate = a good thing. Keep the door of it open most of the time for the pup to go in and out.

At different times, say after a play and a toilet break, when the pup is tired, close him into the crate for 30 mins. So he gets used to being in there. If he's crying and you know he doesn't need the toilet, leave him. I have a thing where I act as if I cannot see or hear the dog while he's in the crate. I find it discourages crying for attention. (again, make sure the pup is not crying in distress/ for toilet/ in pain). The first few times you do this, stay in the room or go in and out frequently so the pup does not associate the crate with being left alone.

If the pup is young, then I would suggest you put him sleeping in the crate on the first night. An older dog, I would say ease him in. But the first night away from the mother is frightening and confusing for a pup anyway. There will be crying and protests anyway. And you know that the pup is safe in his crate(never put a pup into a crate with a collar on). Just ensure you get up frequently during the night. Some people here disagree with me, but I would suggest always having water in the crate with your pup. Even if you have to get up more frequently with him, a pup should never be allowed dehydrate. If the pup has diarrhea don't crate him.

If you think the puppy is very upset at being closed in overnight alone, you can bring the crate into the room with you and leave it beside the bed. I think that might be better than letting him sleep out. It's not safe for a pup to havefull run of the kitchen/hall etc unsupervised and you don't want to teach him that if he cries, he gets taken out.

Best of luck with your pup.

Here's a pic of my boy at 12 weeks and another of him and his brother and sister, probably the second day in my house, happily snoozing in the crate.

supermum1

helena.ryan wrote: »

If you are crating the pup you absolutely must get up during the night. You cannot teach bladder control to an 8 week old pup! The pup will dirty in the bed, there is no "might" about it, he WILL. This will completly go against the purpose of crate training in the first place and will cause a lot of distress in the pup. Puppies under 4 months of age have little bladder control. Pups under 3 months have even less. Very young puppies under 9 weeks should be brought out very frequently, maybe up to 6 times a night depending on the dog. (this drops dramatically once you get to know your pups routine and after a few days - a week you should get by getting up maybe twice a night). If the dog is forced to go to the toilet in the crate - toilet training will be much harder

I'm not sure about 6 times a night...the average person sleeps 8hours a night, i've never had a pup that would need to go to the toilet up to 6 times in an 8 hour period. Though I understand your point, and opinions vary massively on toilet training I would at most get up once a night. I have done this with all my pups with success.


I also wouldn't bring the crate to your room, thiough it is difficult to listen to a pup cry, especially on the first night if you give in and bring the crate to your room you are building a habit that will need to be broken, and the pup is going to cry much worse if it gets used to the comfort of sleeping with you and is then moved.

Whispered

It depends on the dog TBH, I have had pups here who would easily get by with one toilet break a night, I have had others who needed to go out every 90 mins. To be on the safe side, I would always recommend gtting up very 2 hours for the first few nights. As I said, once you get to know your dogs routine this can drop dramatically.

If your pup is crying during the night, I would agree that once you are 100% sure the dog is ok, then leave him. But if you can't do this maybe due to neighbours or your own distress, then taking the crate to the room is preferable to taking the pup out of the crate for the night.

boodlesdoodles

helena.ryan wrote: »

If your pup is crying during the night, I would agree that once you are 100% sure the dog is ok, then leave him. But if you can't do this maybe due to neighbours or your own distress, then taking the crate to the room is preferable to taking the pup out of the crate for the night.

When I brought my puppy home almost 2 years ago he cried non-stop for hours on the 1st night. I went against all conventional advice and brought him upstairs. He slept in his blanket in the bed with me and the crying stopped. The way I looked at it, he'd had the trauma of being ripped from his mother and family and now he was being left alone on top of that, I felt it cruel and unnecessary. The 2nd night I brought his crate up to the room and put him in it. There were a few toilet breaks (who doesn't like getting up at 3am!!). The next night I put the crate outside the door and so on for a few nights until it was downstairs and he was well used to his new den and felt comfortable and secure in it.

Obviously, every dog and owner is different but if I ever get another puppy (if there is a God I will ha ha) then I will employ the same method. His crate is still now in a corner of the kitchen with a cosy bed in it and with a full view of the room and back garden for him to watch the birds come and go and the neighbours cat climb along our wall!

Best of luck with your new doggie, its a lovely time!

Whispered

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

When I brought my puppy home almost 2 years ago he cried non-stop for hours on the 1st night. I went against all conventional advice and brought him upstairs. He slept in his blanket in the bed with me and the crying stopped. The way I looked at it, he'd had the trauma of being ripped from his mother and family and now he was being left alone on top of that, I felt it cruel and unnecessary. The 2nd night I brought his crate up to the room and put him in it. There were a few toilet breaks (who doesn't like getting up at 3am!!). The next night I put the crate outside the door and so on for a few nights until it was downstairs and he was well used to his new den and felt comfortable and secure in it. !

I think thats a brilliant way to do it. I had a pup when I was about 12, and I let him in my bed with me due to the crying. He had a nice little wee on me at some stage. Haha.

Alvie

star-pants wrote: »

Alvie no need to 'bump' your thread - people will respond when they can if they have the correct information/advice to give you.
I can't give advice on crate training as I've never done it.

Apologies, but the couldn't find the thread on the main board, and when i went into it through my posts, it didn't appear to have been moved, so was hoping bumping it would make it reappear:o.

Thanks so much for all the advice. Have the crate in the kitchen, with a nice soft bed and a puppy teddy. It's near ( but not beside) a radiator so should be warm, but think il throw a blanket over it as well.

Helena.ryan your guy is a real cutie, looks all snug in his bed.

Am nervous bout the first night, hate to think of him frightened.

Any idea on whether he'll be ok in the garden, once he's had his vaccinations, he'll have grown a bit but wil stil be small enough. Or am just worrying over nothing

Thanks again!;)

boodlesdoodles

helena.ryan wrote: »

I think thats a brilliant way to do it. I had a pup when I was about 12, and I let him in my bed with me due to the crying. He had a nice little wee on me at some stage. Haha.

My fella fell off the back of the couch when he was a few months old and hurt his leg, €250 later the vet told us it was a bruised hip. Anyway he did worse than wee on me when I picked him up after his fall My OH had to pull my trousers down and put on the clean ones for me as I couldn't let the little fella down, he was clinging to me with his teeth after his fright. To this day, he's extremely cautious about jumping off things. I threw out those trousers

Whispered

Alvie wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the advice. Have the crate in the kitchen, with a nice soft bed and a puppy teddy. It's near ( but not beside) a radiator so should be warm, but think il throw a blanket over it as well.

Helena.ryan your guy is a real cutie, looks all snug in his bed.

I think the blanket would help regulate the temp too. You don't want him blasted with heat when the rad is on and then get cold when it's off. I'd imagine the blanket would act as a barrier? I just used one of his spare blankets to cover it. Now, with him getting so much bigger, I got rid of the crate thinking he'd appreciate a nice pillow instead. He took to sleeping under the clothes horse! So I bought a new crate before christmas and the only thing big enough to cover it properly is a double duvet. He loves it.

Alvie wrote: »

Am nervous bout the first night, hate to think of him frightened.

Any idea on whether he'll be ok in the garden, once he's had his vaccinations, he'll have grown a bit but wil stil be small enough. Or am just worrying over nothing

Don't worry too much. He'll be very happy with you in his new home! All you can do on the first night is make him as comfy, warm, safe and tired as possible. The second night will be easier and if you don't pander to cries, by the third/fourth night he should be fine. You'll still have to get up for the toilet but the crying should be less.

Just a bit about bringing him out at night. Try not get him excited. Bring him out, say "go wee" or "toilet" or "be quick" (that last one came from a poster here who cleverly manages to avoid sounding mad!) wait until he goes, as long as it takes. Tell him how good he is in a non excited way, quick cuddle, back to bed. Try keep it as quiet as you can so he learns that it's not actually time to get up.

There is nothing nicer than a puppies excited little face in the morning. I'm so jealous!

I would wait until he is older to allow him out unsupervised for any length of time. It'll be a big new world and he'll need your guidance for a good few weeks.

If your garden is totally safe, or if you can set up an outdoor area for him then maybe let him out for a few mins, but I'd keep an eye on him from the window just in case. Pups have a way of finding trouble no matter what.
Harleys sister pepa - the on in the scond pic with 1 black eye - managed to end up hanging by her back legs off a railway sleeper in the length of time it took me to walk to the hallway to answer the phone and walk back out with it in my hand. :rolleyes: Once you're happy he can navigate the garden or the area you have for him without trouble you can relax a bit more.

Before anyone says - I realise I might be a bit OTT with the supervision and gtting up evry 2 hours at first - but it's hard enough for a pup at the start and I think over supervising and getting up too often is better than being the opposite.

I hope when he arrives you post some pics!

peasant

Alvie wrote: »

Also is it safe to let him out the back garden (completely enclosed) for brief periods during the day by himself?

Absolutely not.

Your OH is right to be worried. Not just about the neighbours' cats ..there is no amount of trouble and danger a young, unattended pup can get itself into.

It needs to be supervised, guided and watched for quite a while before it can be trusted to stay out of harms way.

Sigma Force

Start from the very first day as you mean to get on. The best place for such a small young pup is a crate right beside your bed. Makes like a lot easier in the long run. You will have to get up between 1 and 5 times in the night for the first while..yes 5 times although hopefully you won't have to get up this often but it does happen with very young pups.

Crate training is well worth it and safest for very small pups like bichons, the pup can't wander around whilst your asleep and swallow and chew on things that could be dangerous (make sure your floors are spotless our little pup still at 7 months will eat anything have to watch him like a hawk.

I wouldn't leave him on his own in the garden for the first couple of months, not because of escape since the garden is secure but because you would be suprised what stuff they pick up and try to eat, also you can keep an eye and make sure the pup does a wee or a poo sometimes pups will go out have a good sniff come back in and wee on the floor because noones kept and eye to make sure it's been done outside at the start you will probably have to pick the pup up and bring him out esp. for the first few weeks starting off until the pup gets the idea.

Make the crate inviting for the pup our guy settled quickly but when I put vet bed in his crate instead of just fleece blankets (some shop bought beds can be chewed to bits esp. the ones with zips you'd be suprised what damage a small pup can do) he slept more soundly than ever. Also a snuggle safe heat pad is your best friend, small pups like a bichon can feel the cold and love a bit of body heat, in a crate a snuggle safe (ensure it has the cover on it when placed in the pups bed) can give the pup something warm to snuggle up to our guy loves his and won't settle until it's heated (4 mins in the microwave so real easy) and in his bed.

We were lucky he settled well in his crate but he did cry to get out for a wee at night which was often at first and I thought it would never end but just as I thought it would go on forever he settled and sleeps through the night now, still gets up the odd time but better waking me up than peeing in his bed.

Great thing about vet bed as well if the pup does have an accident it's easy to wash and dry (handy to have a spare though).

I used a small plastic bed at first it was just a pain the pup didn't use it prefered to stretch out eventhough it was suitable for his size so I keep one for his daytime play pen (hardly used now you only need one crate really just handy sometimes to have a spare in another room to save draging it from one room to the other all the time).

Crate training takes some patience but well worth it in the end, my fear with such a small dog was also the height of the beds he could easily hurt himself or break a leg jumping off crate is much safe for him. He goes in by himself now esp. if he's really sleepy. Trick is to make sure you put the pup to bed only when the pup is sleepy after they've had their mad puppy hour at a ridiculous hour of the night lol.

Also highly recommend puppy kongs and petstages toys for bichons ( although I'd remove the material bits on them). Don't envy you starting off but at least the nights have warmed up a little we got our guy in summer because I knew the nightly pees would be a lot more bearable if it was relatively warm outside (tends to be a lot of waiting around waiting for them to do their buisness).

Best of luck with the new puppy.

Just noticed a load of posts already lol

Kitchen might be ok for him but it's very hard to wander around the house half asleep to fetch the pup to bring him out, lot easier to just reach over to the crate and scoop the pup out and potter to the door. If you have an upstairs deffo. bring crate upstairs beside you as you may not hear the pup crying (and neighbours will). Lot easier to put a hand down to reassure the pup if they are just by your bed.

dublindogcare

Hi Alvie,
Use the crate from the very beginning. Ideally Have a room or a section of the room (you can make a smal section using dividers i.e. baby stair gates) that is the puppy den while housetraining.

When the pup is on his own: Or you are in bed!
Leave the door of the crate open have a suitable toliet spot for the pup , most people use news paper , I like to get a flat box and put grass in it (as this is eventually where u want them to go )

When you are present:
No toliet present. Have the crate door closed and on the hour every hour take the pup on leash to the back garden.

Also if the pup wakes up before the hour take him out immediatly , and also after every play session straight outside.

If you want send me your email address and I will atach a document that will help alot with any questions you have on raising your pup, its too big to attach here

Alvie

Thanks again for all the advice, feeling a lot more prepared now, i really appreciate everyone taking the time to reply:)
Will def be posting some pictures, he is just so CUTE.
Also where would i get one of the heat pads, it might come in handy. Have a petmania shop nearby, would they sell them?

Alvie

Well the 1st day and night are over and so far we're doing well. I just have to get a bit quicker with realising when he wants to pee. He doesn't seem too keen on going outside, he just starts whimpering and curls up on my feet.
I got up with him 3 times last night but he didn't pee any of the times, he didn't go in his crate either. Am amazed as he's only 8 weeks. I regretted getting up to him as well as it just made him whine lots when i went upstairs. He seems to like the crate but just not being alone.
He hasn't really eaten much either, just a few little bits from his bowl each time, but not too worried yet as its early days just goin to keep an eye on it.
He absolutely loves his cuddles, he goes up to your feet, looks up at you and does a little whine and then makes himself comfy on your lap and goes for a snooze. He's cuddled up to my son on the couch at the moment.
Going to post some pics in a little while.