Socially mature males

Red Hand

Was reading this thread in tLL and was going to respond to it, but would have been off-topic.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055801232

What in your view is a socially mature male? What are the typical steps or sequence that generate one?

I see alot of threads where people (often males) look for advice cause they know little about relationships with the opposite sex, and have little self esteem or are uncomfortable with themselves, so these are clearly not socially mature.

How would you help make them become socially apt?

mink_man

grow a clever moustache....

trout

I think the OP is posting a genuine question - genuine responses only please.

Dr Galen

We'd like posters to be aware that sometimes people really are looking for help or really want to discuss an issue seriously. There's nothing wrong with a bit of banter and having a laugh but please consider that a thread on 'penis size' or 'hairy back' may be a matter of great merriment for you but the original poster may really want some serious answers and discussion.

I've quited a line from the charter for your perusal Mink-Man and indeed anyone else who wants to come in here with smart arse replies. A bit banter in the right circumstances is cool. These are not the right circumstances

Cheers

MM

Edit : Jaysus Trout, I'd have to be up early to catch you! Carry on people

CDfm

Ok - its a fair question but what do you mean.

Maturity is relative and often feminist writters say the pill sexually liberated women but would you class a guy with a mistress as mature or modern or promiscous.

scanlas

I think a socially mature male recognises what's important and what isn't in life so doesn't get worked up over things that don't matter too much, and isn't too concerned about impressing people. I think one step to getting these qualities is to witness people who have real problems as opposed to your mind made problems. Problems that are real are famine, earthquakes, tsunamis, murder, cancer, war etc...

Snowie

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

I see alot of threads where people (often males) look for advice cause they know little about relationships with the opposite sex, and have little self esteem or are uncomfortable with themselves, so these are clearly not socially mature.

I would of thaught that reletionship and oposite sex work booth ways when feelings are involved most people tend to go into them selves a bit more and affraid of comunicating, i dont really know why, (often wondered).... But the Internet invites people who are slightly shy and don't really know how to broach the subject with their friends. Its safe anoymous, but I think every one lacks self esteam in some way or another... No bodys perfect.... But i would of thaught thats more emotionally immature ?

Tho as for soicvally imature I think that could be classed in more ways then one, Some people could have had over protective parents who supressed there soical behavour...
Maybe they spent a life time sitting behinde a computer designing games and programing. Maybe they where bullied in school etc the list is massive to why they are like that.

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

How would you help make them become socially apt?

I dont think any one can as such help some one unless they want the help no matter if that s with drugs soicaly more mature, once again the list is and could be very long.

Tho the few things I beleave any body can do is except people for who they are even if there soically immature, be the cool person who doesnt pass judgement and gives them the time. Even if they do freek you out..

They could just lack a lot of soical experence... Which I would of thaught leads to soical maturity

PK2008

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Was reading this thread in tLL and was going to respond to it, but would have been off-topic.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055801232

What in your view is a socially mature male? What are the typical steps or sequence that generate one?

I see alot of threads where people (often males) look for advice cause they know little about relationships with the opposite sex, and have little self esteem or are uncomfortable with themselves, so these are clearly not socially mature.

How would you help make them become socially apt?

I think you kind of answered your own question there OP- men who are not 'socially mature' (is that even a real phrase?) are probably suffering from self esteem issues.

Not much anyone can really do for someone who has low self esteem as each persons issues are unique,could be a childhood thing, could be a personal failure, could be an abusive relationship- could be a whole mix of things, theres no 'one size fits all' solution- thats why we have PI. Im sure women suffer from similar issues.

Wibbs

IMHO its where a man misses out a vital part of social practice in adolescence. That's the training ground for most. The time they make eejits of themselves and where being an eejit is acceptable. Hell its mandatory . If they miss out on this phase and end up in their 20's without that "training", they find it much harder to engage socially as the stakes are higher.

This goes double for dealing with the ladies. Its harder for a man in one way because he is the pursuer in 90% of cases. A socially inept women who makes it to 25 has many more options. sellers market and all that. I would also say men are at a disadvantage as generally women's social interactions and networks tend to be wider and more complex earlier on(they're also more stressful too IMHO. Social bullying is higher among girls).

Plus when a guy like this is trying to interact with women, he's at a major disadvantage. Ive read studies that have shown women are much better at social body language and indeed social intelligence. So a guy out of step is lit up like a xmas tree for most of them and it can make them uncomfortable. Ive seen situations where a nice enough guy who is one of those out of step is in a mixed group. You will hear more women describe those guys as "creepy". They'll usually avoid them too. Much more so than men. Maybe its a safety feature for women? A way to weed out the guys who may not understand social boundaries? Plus women tend(especially young women) to seek out the socially adept and mature males. Which again stands to reason. Not always but that trend is there.

I think there are a few reasons for it. A man can go through his teens and largely avoid a lot of social interaction. So if he hangs around with the group of "geeky" kids he can find it easier to delay adult social interaction. The stereotype of the overweight geeky kid in his room playing WoW kinda thing. That said its another form of social interaction and has its own complexity. I mean even a bulletin board has its own rules. It took me a good while to get the gist around here. Mainly cos Im an oulfella . But I think this stuff has gotten worse and will get worse because there are far more outlets and replacements for actual interaction these days. certainly compared to 50 years ago. Even compared to my teenage years.

How do we help to reduce this? Actually places like this are a good one. Because the face to face is missing people can try out "personalities" in relative safety. They can also garner kudos they may not have in RL. If then we can bring those men into actula RL at real world meetings that can only be good. Boards in particular is good because the 4chan youtube trollfest is rightly stamped on. Whcih is unusual enough. This brings a more even social playing field.

Other ways? If you meet or know a guy like this bring him out with you to places. Get him used to it. Get him out of his comfort zone. Avoid excuses too. It's down to practice to be socially "mature" IMHO. Yes some are better than others but unless you have a real social/mental condition and not an easy label, then I do think for the majority of shy socially anxious men, it can be overcome. Good for them and good for society too, as otherwise we may never know these guys and that would be a loss.

Red Hand

Wibbs wrote: »

IMHO its where a man misses out a vital part of social practice in adolescence. That's the training ground for most. The time they make eejits of themselves and where being an eejit is acceptable. Hell its mandatory . If they miss out on this phase and end up in their 20's without that "training", they find it much harder to engage socially as the stakes are higher.

So, encouragement of idiocy in teens is one step. :pac: Seriously, I get what you mean.

I could nearly say that I was alot like that actually...I didn't really act like an eejit as a teen or do anything typically teenagery (new word), and so it took me a while to adapt socially later when I started going out in college at 18/19. And then of course, when you do go out and you see the "mad nights" that people have when they're out aren't quite as cracked up as they were made out to be when you were in school at 14/15. Maybe I didn't miss out on much.:pac:

This goes double for dealing with the ladies. Its harder for a man in one way because he is the pursuer in 90% of cases. A socially inept women who makes it to 25 has many more options. sellers market and all that. I would also say men are at a disadvantage as generally women's social interactions and networks tend to be wider and more complex earlier on(they're also more stressful too IMHO. Social bullying is higher among girls).

Plus when a guy like this is trying to interact with women, he's at a major disadvantage. Ive read studies that have shown women are much better at social body language and indeed social intelligence. So a guy out of step is lit up like a xmas tree for most of them and it can make them uncomfortable. Ive seen situations where a nice enough guy who is one of those out of step is in a mixed group. You will hear more women describe those guys as "creepy". They'll usually avoid them too. Much more so than men. Maybe its a safety feature for women? A way to weed out the guys who may not understand social boundaries? Plus women tend(especially young women) to seek out the socially adept and mature males. Which again stands to reason. Not always but that trend is there.

I think there are a few reasons for it. A man can go through his teens and largely avoid a lot of social interaction. So if he hangs around with the group of "geeky" kids he can find it easier to delay adult social interaction. The stereotype of the overweight geeky kid in his room playing WoW kinda thing. That said its another form of social interaction and has its own complexity. I mean even a bulletin board has its own rules. It took me a good while to get the gist around here. Mainly cos Im an oulfella . But I think this stuff has gotten worse and will get worse because there are far more outlets and replacements for actual interaction these days. certainly compared to 50 years ago. Even compared to my teenage years.

How do we help to reduce this? Actually places like this are a good one. Because the face to face is missing people can try out "personalities" in relative safety. They can also garner kudos they may not have in RL. If then we can bring those men into actula RL at real world meetings that can only be good. Boards in particular is good because the 4chan youtube trollfest is rightly stamped on. Whcih is unusual enough. This brings a more even social playing field.

Yeah...though from my experience of boards, you can be more funny than you would be usually cause you have time to think about stuff when responding to a post. This gives you a false reputation, almost. Scripted humour rather than off-the-cuff. This is true for discussions that people have on serious forums...would they be that articulate and analytical in real life or not.

Other ways? If you meet or know a guy like this bring him out with you to places. Get him used to it. Get him out of his comfort zone. Avoid excuses too. It's down to practice to be socially "mature" IMHO. Yes some are better than others but unless you have a real social/mental condition and not an easy label, then I do think for the majority of shy socially anxious men, it can be overcome. Good for them and good for society too, as otherwise we may never know these guys and that would be a loss.

+1 Yeah, though I think websites like this can restrict a person when growing up...it's easier to sit and play video games and go on websites and stuff than actually trying out new things...not even trying out "eejitry" in your teen years but just developing hobbies in real life with real people. I was in my early 20s when going on the internet first...if I had access to it earlier during my teen years, I honestly would say I could have been much more reclusive than now, merely because it would be an easy substitute as you say.

L31mr0d

I fear a lot of these discussions come down to the prevalent ignorance of extroverts towards introverts.

To be introverted has become somewhat of a dirty word, and often gets pegged as being a sign of a persons social immaturity.

This is never the case. An introvert merely has a different definition of what they define as enjoyable social interactions.

For the majority, social interactions with groups are generally tiresome. An introvert much rather prefers a meaningful short one to one interaction, to a long drawn out party of multiple social interactions with varying substance.

I went to a lot of parties in my youth and the individuals who left early or who sat in the corner talking to the one person they knew where usually pegged as "socially awkward". Yes, they are awkward, because they are being forced to conform to the loud majority that sets the rules on social gatherings.

I would be introverted myself. I'd much rather a day spent alone or with 1 other person than to spend an evening in a pub with a bunch of people. It doesn't appeal to me at all. I wouldn't consider myself socially immature but rather I reject that the extroverts standard for social interactions should apply to all.

Wibbs

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

So, encouragement of idiocy in teens is one step. :pac: Seriously, I get what you mean.

like it needs to be encouraged.

I could nearly say that I was alot like that actually...I didn't really act like an eejit as a teen or do anything typically teenagery (new word), and so it took me a while to adapt socially later when I started going out in college at 18/19. And then of course, when you do go out and you see the "mad nights" that people have when they're out aren't quite as cracked up as they were made out to be when you were in school at 14/15. Maybe I didn't miss out on much.:pac:

Oh they're usually not as they're cracked up to be at all. Their main purpose, or result anyway is by doing that stuff guys learn a lot of the social ins and outs. Clever guys who are quiet by nature seem to be more likely to miss out on this. They see it as a waste of time, which it can be argued it is, except for that social learning bit.

Yeah...though from my experience of boards, you can be more funny than you would be usually cause you have time to think about stuff when responding to a post. This gives you a false reputation, almost. Scripted humour rather than off-the-cuff. This is true for discussions that people have on serious forums...would they be that articulate and analytical in real life or not.

Oh yes there is that. The keyboard warrior/funny man/deep thinker syndrome that doesnt quite translate into reality. I think its a start though, especially if backed up by actual face to face interaction

+1 Yeah, though I think websites like this can restrict a person when growing up...it's easier to sit and play video games and go on websites and stuff than actually trying out new things...not even trying out "eejitry" in your teen years but just developing hobbies in real life with real people. I was in my early 20s when going on the internet first...if I had access to it earlier during my teen years, I honestly would say I could have been much more reclusive than now, merely because it would be an easy substitute as you say.

Yep thats the problem as I see it and why I think this stunted social development may get worse, or maybe a new kind of social development may replace it? So you could have a section of men(in this case) who are socially very mature online, but clueless face to face. That's a bit of a worry IMHO. They may live more and more in their own heads and online networks. Become their username as it were. So a technology that massively increases the ability to communicate may in the end restrict it in many ways.

Wibbs

L31mr0d wrote: »

I fear a lot of these discussions come down to the prevalent ignorance of extroverts towards introverts.

To be introverted has become somewhat of a dirty word, and often gets pegged as being a sign of a persons social immaturity.

I agree.
For my part I would not suggest that an introvert tries to be an extrovert(or vice versa) just for the sake of the prevailing social need. Though I would say the ability to have some leeway in both directions is a good one to nurture. We are a social animal after all.

I also agree introverted can be a dirty word as indeed can extroverted. Both in extremis simply make others uncomfortable. Both in extremis are self indulgent IMHO. The guy who sits all night not saying a word in the group is frankly freaky. Ditto with the life and soul that drags both life and soul out of everyone else.

I would be introverted myself. I'd much rather a day spent alone or with 1 other person than to spend an evening in a pub with a bunch of people. It doesn't appeal to me at all. I wouldn't consider myself socially immature but rather I reject that the extroverts standard for social interactions should apply to all.

Yes and thats OK, but you can spend an evening with one person, male or female. You know how to do that. I'm talking about men who would find that difficult. They miss the social cues. The type of man who needs smileys in real life or misses the vibe completely.