Letting my brother back into my life?

LegacyUser

I stopped speaking to my brother about 8 months ago. I'm 27 he's 23.

I have a lot of anger by the way he treated me. I always assumed he just had low self-esteem and that's why he misbehaved when he was younger, and I always tried to understand him. Now he's older, he constantly betrayed me. If I loaned him money he'd find a reason not to pay it back, then when I got other family members involved he'd throw the money on the ground in a ball and say he thinks it's funny the way he stressed me out and that I only care about money (which couldn't be further from the truth.)

But as a perfectly silly example, I might be watching something on tv. He'd tell me to flick around to see if anything else was on ("scrubs might be on."). If I didn't, and if we were due to go to the pub later he'd say "i couldn't be bothered. I think I'll watch tv instead. scrubs might be on."

He turned everything into a fight that he had to come out on top of. And if I fought back (for example, didn't change the channel on tv) he'd keep at it until he could say "I won." I just kept trying to understand him. I'd think "it must be the way my dad treated him growing up." or "maybe he's upset that he doesn't have a job."

But I'm just after reading a self-help book called "in sheep's clothing." It basically classifies him as covert-aggressive. I mistook my brother's unwarranted high self-esteem as a cover for insecurity. When he owed me money he would start a row over stupid things just so he could have an excuse not to pay me back. He started kissing his best friend's girlfriend, but then started telling everyone that his friend was two-faced and fake. He never takes responsibility and prides himself on getting his own way by using people without having to work. And when he had a job, he started leaving at 3pm because he honestly believed he had done "well over a day's work!" When he was fired he blamed cutbacks and claimed that his employer probably loss out on €250,000 by firing him.

The last time we fell out was 8 months ago. I was feeling so drained that initially I stopped speaking to our mutual friends and family members because they were all links to him.

8 months later, I've been doing pretty good without him in my life

The problem is we're both pretty close to our family. I hate visiting my mother, granny, sister or cousins, only to find him there. I end up just sitting there not speaking to anyone like a complete outsider, while he dominates the conversation by talking about what €60,000 car he wants and could buy it second hand at trade prices for €12,000, or where he's going to build his house (he's unemployed) or what course he wants to do in college.. he has it narrowed down to science, primary teaching, or accountancy (bearing in mind he got about 150 in his leaving, and dropped out of his construction studies course after spending 2 months in the pub).

It would be so easy to start speaking to him about something he's interested in e.g. a nice area where he should build that house - and whether it should be 4 or 5 bedrooms, and how many living rooms should he put in it, would he build on an acre or 2, and would he do the wooden floors himself.

I just don't know if I'm able to put up with his power games. He'll put me down, and if it degenerates into a slagging match (which I'd easily win by playing on his actual weaknesses) there would be hell to pay as he seeks revenge for what he feels was me trying to beat him - at one stage he threatened to break my nose and it wasn't a spur of the moment threat because he repeated it several times.

Obviously when he says something childish to me I should say "i'd prefer if you didn't speak to me like that." But I tried this tactic before of being reasonable, but he's charismatic enough that he had everyone laughing at me for not being able to take a joke... deep down he was fuming and only was able to let if go because in the end he "won."

But there are benefits of letting him back into my life. First, he is very good at manipulating people so a lot of people think I am unfairly victimising him at the moment. Second, it would make him look good - he'd ensure people knew I came crawling to him, and that he was the bigger man by putting everything behind us.

I find myself asking, is it worth the risk letting him back in my life - but at arms length just to sort out a few family problems. The situation at the moment of avoiding my own family isn't tolerable.

Victor

Are there just the two children or are there other siblings?

Have you tried to talk to your other family members? Invite them to your place or out for a meal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

By all means try, but the moment he starts playing games back off and turn your attention to someone or something else. Keep trying, but DON'T play the games - his behaveiour only works if two people 'play'.

As for a reason, is it possible he feels intimidated by you? Especially if he's unemployed and you've got a successful career. If this is the case, just make every attempt to make reasurere him that there's no reason he should feel that way.

LegacyUser

Hi Victor
Well, we're not really children anymore! But there's me, my sister, a brother who is 26 and my brother who is 24.

Growing up with my dad wasn't easy. He had a vile temper. My mother spent half her time covering up for anything we did wrong to prevent word war 3 and the other half convincing us (and herself) that my dad was a good man who just didn't know how to show it. She'd make excuses like saying he never got over the death of his brother, or how his dad used to beat him. He keeps asking me to make it up with my brother but I have less respect for him than I do for my brother.

So I inherited my mother's neurotic tendencies. Like me, she believe that everyone's had a good nature and that when people treat others badly it's because it's a cry for help and they're just frustrated and have low self-esteem. As I found out recently, nothing could be further from the truth. So when I talked to her about it she just said the book I read was like reading a horoscope, and it's easy to apply the description to anyone. She still thinks my dad and brother are good people. She basically buries her head in the sand. If I push her she tell me "I wouldn't listen to him saying this about you so I'm not going to have you say it about him"

My sister was always quite independent and lucky for her go to go to college away from home and never looked back. She would occasionally tell my brother he was acting appallingly. He'd always start playing the victim and they'd end up talking about what he wants to do in college. My sister would phone me and say "i had a word, I think it went well." then my brother would text me "why do you think you're doing trying to drag everyone else into this. are you trying to make me look bad. I only did that to stress you out... because do you remember the time you said I was s*it at driving and I said I was going to break your nose - well i only did that instead of breaking your nose. so it's your own fault."

Just about the s*it driver story - basically about a year before we were in the pub, he started slagging me for dumb things like having receding hairline, so i said "well i might be bald - but at least im not a s*it driver." Then a couple of his friends picked up on that this annoyed him. He'd call someone ginger , they say "well, at least i can drive a car." It was pretty funny actually but he was furious.

Of course the events were completely unrelated, but he somehow justified his behaviour by relating it back to the last time we actually argued over something. In reality, he owed me money, went out nearly every night of the week, and looked for a way to start an argument so he wouldn't have to pay me back.

LegacyUser

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

By all means try, but the moment he starts playing games back off and turn your attention to someone or something else. Keep trying, but DON'T play the games - his behaveiour only works if two people 'play'.

As for a reason, is it possible he feels intimidated by you? Especially if he's unemployed and you've got a successful career. If this is the case, just make every attempt to make reasurere him that there's no reason he should feel that way.

He probably does feel intimidated in a way. But this main thing is our outlook is completely different. I have low self-esteem and I'm over conscientious. He has unwarrantedly high self-esteem. So when I put up with his behaviour thinking that I was helping him, he walked all over me.

The argument with the money was over rent he owed me on an apartment we rented briefly. I thought he was depressed and I thought it was because he was stuck at home with my dad, and I tried to give him a break by letting him move into an apartment I was going to rent on my own even though I couldn't really afford to. He convinced me to rent a more expensive one and he'd pay half. He wouldn't clear up after himself, and even though he was still working just kept going out 3 nights a week so he stopped paying me.

Then bragged how he stressed me out over money. I was so open and honest, I said it was never about the money - it was the way he treated me. He just laughed. He was convinced in my mind it was about the money, and that he won by using his intelligence to get one over on me. And he thinks that made him better than me.

This was a few years ago. I had little to do with him since but 8 months ago if flared up again over something else but along the same theme - him telling me he is better than me because of his brilliant philosophy in life. I cut ties completely but it hasn't made my family life any easier.

He never learns from his mistakes, and he never says he's wrong. It's just a constant game of trying to have a position of power. Whether it's women he's dating or family members he just has to have power by any means possible. Outside of relationships, everyone thinks he's a nice person. He has plenty of superficial friendships and people generally have a favourable view of him. At the moment he's moaning how he'd have a job only for the recession but he lost his last job because of his attitude.

He's dating a doctor so he's never stuck for money. She pays for their nice apartment and he drives her car. He has her convinced that he is generous when he had money. He brags that he can control her too, and makes occasional references to her weight in front people to make sure she knows she's not too good for him.

LegacyUser

I went through a similar thing with my brother OP.

He was always right no matter what, I was always wrong and he knew exactly what to hit me with when he wanted to do maximum damage. I've never met another person with such a memory for little slight and unconscious insults. He has a gift for manipulating everyone into whatever he wants and if he doesn't get what he wants he shouts down any opposition and gets as threatening as he can short of physical violence (although he's not above that either.)

Long story short he f*cked about too much and I finally stood up to him and cut him out of my life. I was torn up about putting my parents through it but I just had to cut him out for my own mental health and its one of the most positive steps I've taken in my life. Being home was depressing I've pretty much stayed away at college as much as possible. Now he's in jail (where he belongs imo) and, oddly, our relationship has improved. We'll never be friends again as far as I'm concerned and Im only talking to him again for my parents sake.

I suppose what Im trying to say is that you don't need to go back to the way you were but don't punish your mutual friends or your family for him being a d*ck. If any of them bring it up just politely tell them that the problem is between you and him and its none of their business. Try to be civil to him but let him know, when you're on your own with him, that you won't take his sh*t anymore - no jokes, no bitching, nothing. Nobody is forcing him to act like he does, and you don't have to put up with it.

LegacyUser

Thanks anono. It actually sounds like we're talking about the same person.

The only reason my brother could manipulate me like that is because he knew me so well. When I tried to fight fire with fire he knew my threats were empty. He has a way of twisting things that makes him look like the victim! And he relied on that stupid saying "blood is thicker than water."

For years he physically threatened me but that would be a dangerous escalation and I think he knows he can't get away with it. About 2 years ago he got someone in a headlock and pushed him to the ground and a few of his friends spoke out against him so he is careful to work within the law, but only barely.

The more he tries to validate the way he lives his life the more dangerous he will become. Even if he does get married to a girl, chances are he'll terrorise her and possibly his family. But that's not my problem. I personally hope he ends up in jail for a nice stretch where he'll have plenty of time to think about his actions and finally take some responsibility.

Moomoo1

OP:

I think the main problem here is your self-esteem: and I don't mean this in a bad way, but only to say that if you felt better about yourself then all he said would just be water off a duck's back.

I would say that you've been much more effective in fighting back than you give yourself credit for. One of the harshest things you can do to a person is to ignore them totally, and you've been doing that quite successfully (and in this case it's totally deserved I would say). And don't underestimate how much that gets to him.

Maybe try doing this: when your family is around, be the nicest person in the world with him - in a civil polite 'elder brother' sort of way. If he tries to start anything, just change the subject to the weather, or something of that sort. When they are not around, just ignore him totally.

Soulja boy

I don't think you should let him back into your life, people dont change, and he will just hurt you again.

LegacyUser

sibling wrote: »

Thanks anono. It actually sounds like we're talking about the same person.

The only reason my brother could manipulate me like that is because he knew me so well. When I tried to fight fire with fire he knew my threats were empty. He has a way of twisting things that makes him look like the victim! And he relied on that stupid saying "blood is thicker than water."

I normally don't reply to these things except that when I read you post it sounded like you were talking about my brother. I refer to him as my brother in these posts but only to avoid naming him here, I barely even think of him as a brother anymore.

What caused me to finally cut ties with him really spelled out his victim mindset to me. He did something that was way over the line. I exploded, huge argument ensues and he stormed off. So next day he comes back and I expect him to at least have an apology or failing that at least admit he's in the wrong. Basically though he expected an apology from me, claiming he was the victim having done absolutely nothing wrong. It sounds like your brother is of the same mindset.

sibling wrote: »

For years he physically threatened me but that would be a dangerous escalation and I think he knows he can't get away with it. About 2 years ago he got someone in a headlock and pushed him to the ground and a few of his friends spoke out against him so he is careful to work within the law, but only barely.

Mine is older than me so I was too afraid to stand up to him for most of my life. We used to scrap a bit when we were younger so anytime he got vicious everyone, me included, would just brush it away and say he was only playing. It wasn't until I started going to the gym and learning to box that he realised he couldn't intimidate me anymore.

sibling wrote: »

The more he tries to validate the way he lives his life the more dangerous he will become. Even if he does get married to a girl, chances are he'll terrorise her and possibly his family. But that's not my problem. I personally hope he ends up in jail for a nice stretch where he'll have plenty of time to think about his actions and finally take some responsibility.

The bolded bit is exactly what I found myself thinking for the last year or so and honestly its a huge relief. People have told me that I shouldn't be glad that he's where he is, that he's my brother etc etc but I really think its the best thing that happened for my family, whether the rest of them see it or not yet. But as long as he can get away with whatever he wants without consequences then he will keep pushing it.

If I were you I wouldn't let him back into my life. I'd be as civil as i could manage when I had to be around him but that would be as far as I'd go. Unless he showed some huge conscientious desire to cop himself on he'll just keep beating you down for as long as you let him.

deisemum

From what you've posted there's no way I'd let someone like that back into my life. This sort of "loyalty" to someone just because they're family is not always a good thing.

You're an adult now so as an adult it's up to you who you decide to have in your life. It's not up to your parents or other siblings to say you should be involved with him. If you don't have self-respect and let people mistreat you then they'll only continue. Not every family is like the Waltons.

I haven't spoken to my mother or one of my sister's since the summer of 2003 and I've so much more peace in my life. I reported them to the gardai for assault and they were cautioned. It will go further if they ever approach me. They rarely cross my mind, I don't even miss them, they're just nothing to me.

magneticimpulse

Its really sad that what you would consider family and should be on your side, doesnt always work out this way. At least you have other siblings and therefore imo can afford to not talk to your brother again. Unfortunately, although having the same parents, their children dont always grow up with the same idea's and get on. I too believe people dont change, especially if he has not figured it out at 23.

My brother at 22 is the baby of the house (just the 2 of us). He came to visit me in France and my parents gave him money for dinners, train tickets, hotel, so he could pay me. He had just got back with his ex girlfriend. Out at dinner, he didnt talk to me, went outside to talk to her, kept texting her the whole weekend and never paid any money towards the things (my parents had to pay me directly). When we got to the airport he left me there with all my bags and got a lift back to our parents house by a friend.

My brother is ok and slightly more normaly after splitting from this girlfriend. She was an only child and sploit rotten (ie parents bought her a brand new car etc).

Anyway my point is, there could be something that could change your brother to behave more normal but until then, dont entertain him. Maybe he will consider why he goes out of his way to upset you. If he doesnt then he is not worth it, forget him!! You can choose your friends but not your family.

MIN2511

I do not think you should let him into your life.
Your brother is selfish, irresponsible, intimidating and manipulative. Because you share the same DNA doesn't mean you should be 'friends' with him. It will be akward at family meetings but at some stage they will just have to accept it and understand the situation.
It is easier said than done but it's your sanity and peace of mind at stake here and your feelings come first before anyone else.

bealfeirste5

You got a lot of different opinions here.. how are things now with your brother? Has anything changed?

LegacyUser

op here

nothing's changed.

it's a bit annoying because i've grown to hate him. but when i'm drinking i keep thinking how easy it would be just to make up. but i can't trust him.

he's on the dole, living off his girlfriend, running a car and goes on about 2 holidays a year... which is more than i can afford with a fulltime job.

he's a waster. i can't waste any more time or effort on him

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sibling wrote: »

op here

nothing's changed.

it's a bit annoying because i've grown to hate him. but when i'm drinking i keep thinking how easy it would be just to make up. but i can't trust him.

he's on the dole, living off his girlfriend, running a car and goes on about 2 holidays a year... which is more than i can afford with a fulltime job.

he's a waster. i can't waste any more time or effort on him

That actually sounds like a hint of jealousy! (Not suggesting there is, just sounds like it.)

Advice, though, is to just keep the minimum contact and be civil. He may wake up in a few years time and realise what a jerk he's been.

A wise man once said forgive thine enemies - it pisses them off.

LegacyUser

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

That actually sounds like a hint of jealousy! (Not suggesting there is, just sounds like it.)

it's not jealously, i know he probably took another loan from my mother to pay his insurance renewal. he's ridiculous, i wouldn't dream of using people like he does.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Don't try and mend things now. He has his life going swimmingingly with his cushy existance with the rich girlfriend. He'll just take the piss out of you if you try and sort things out.

I think what I'd do is just look amused and role your eys when he tries to make fun of you in company. Explain to other siblings/mother the reasons you won't speak to him honestly and without bitterness. Mothers are awful for denial but your siblings probably understand a lot of what you're saying.