question about different sensors off alarm

dandoyle

hi, altor, can you explain what the difference between id sensors and other type sensors that go on the hkc alarm. thanks.

altor

dandoyle wrote: »

hi, altor, can you explain what the difference between id sensors and other type sensors that go on the hkc alarm. thanks.

Hi dandoyle,
There are two different types of sensors that can be installed, there are conventional or ID sensors.
SecureWatch range of ID sensors allow each individual sensor to be set at its optimum level from the SecureWatch control panel. As a result sensors can be individually inhibited from the system allowing greater flexibility than conventional inertia systems.They also have ID motion detectors. The good thing about using these sensors is if you install a text card on the alarm to self monitor, it will tell you what window has being activated. e.g. say you have P50kitchen window, P51tiolet window, P52back door, P53pir hall. if someone breaks into your home you get a text saying HOUSE ALARM P50 KITCHEN WINDOW, then if they persist and get into your home you would get a second text "verified alarm" saying HOUSE ALARM P53 PIR HALL. Up to 40 ID sensors can be put on the HKC securewatch system.
Conventional sensors can be used on most alarm systems. They can be looped together or put singly on a zone. The only thing about grouping them together is if you had the text dialer installed you would only get the zone which has being activated not the window or door name like on the ID sensors. Another thing, it is a lot harder to fault find on a loop than if it is the only window on the zone..

Hope this helps, any more questions let me know..

KoolKid

Hi again Dan?
What sort of application are you looking at?
Is this a new build you are wiring from scratch or is this an upgrade?
I personally would not recommend ID sensors for any domestic installation.
For a self install these can get messy with loss of comms with power fluctuations & interference etc.
Unless you are badly stuck & have to put a lot of sensors on the one cable there really is no point. (no pun intended)
If the application allows it would be much better to expand the panel & use more zones.
What you save by using conventional sensors would more than pay for a bigger panel or expander.
I dont know of anyone who uses ID sensors any more. They are out of date & have had their day. Any work we come across with them we rip them our.
Be warned!!!

altor

koolkid wrote: »

For a self install these can get messy with loss of comms with power fluctuations & interference etc.

I would not recommend them for a self install either, they have to be programmed into the system. Easy when you know how..

koolkid wrote: »

Unless you are badly stuck & have to put a lot of sensors on the one cable there really is no point. (no pun intended)

So you agree they can suit some applications ?

koolkid wrote: »

I dont know of anyone who uses ID sensors any more.

One of the biggest installers in Ireland use them with there hard wire installs..

koolkid wrote: »

Any work we come across with them we rip them our.

Thats because they will only go onto a HKC alarm. As you have said you dont use HKC so its a case of you having to rip them out...

KoolKid

This really is getting pointless...
Yes they can suit some applications, not many to be honest.
Your last comment is very presumptuous. Much as I'd love to replace every HKC panel we come across. The current climate prevents people spending the money.
It is possibl;e to replace point ID sensors with something more reliable without changing the panel.
Please answer me this question Altor ( I've asked you enough times)
If you were buying any new electronice device for yourself or your home ( lets say a TV or Games Console) , presuming they are both the same cost would you buy an up to date one or one designed 15 years ago???

altor

No i would not buy one, but a HKC panel installed 10 years ago is still protecting peoples homes, so i cant see your relevance to compare this with the alarm.
Conventional sensors made by HKC can be put on most alarms.
You know as well as i do that people are still using ID sensors, maybe not yourself but there are plenty of installers. You keep going on about the problems there where when they first came out but that was a long time ago and the problem has long being rectified as you know. It is the same with all technology, like the signet. They are up to version 1.4 now. Firmware upgrade to fix problems on the signet ?
How old is the technology in the visonic sensors but you still use them on the signet alarm If you want the extra features of signet then it is the panel you should get installed but as JNEALON said "The x10 is a bit of a gimmick and is a bit dated". The HKC alarm fitted with the same components as the signet will protect your home even you agree on that. If it was not up to the EN50131 standards "the vista 5 and co where not" i would understand no one installing them but it is. Most people buy an alarm to protect there home, thats it.. Others want it monitored, others want to have access to there alarm, others want to turn on lights, others want to turn on heating. Depending on a customers needs they have so many options.Your saying they are the same price, yes the 100 is the same price but what happens if you have the 100 installed and you decide you want web access to your alarm, upgrade to the 200, how much is that going to cost or is this the same price ?

KoolKid

Please read all my posts if you are going to comment.
Comparing like with like why would anyone use older technology?
Did you not say you still install HKC panels?
The problems with ID sensors is still rife. (Present tense not past). Thats why I', still changing them for more reliable sensors.
Again you refer to software upgrades... I have always referred to how old the equipment itself is (ie the hardware).
Comparing upgrade from SigNet 100-200 You are obviousally not up to date on whats happening in the market.
Signet 100 with web server will be out early this year. Probobly before HKC get out the wireless they have being trying to fix for the past 2 years.
TBH its clear by now you are one of those people who is afraid of change. You probobly stuck with Aritech CD range untill if stopped meeting the standards.
You keep selling the old stuff, its more business for us . I love pricing a job where someone has been quoted for HKC. I sell & install SigNet every time.

altor

koolkid wrote: »

Please read all my posts if you are going to comment.

I have read your comments...

koolkid wrote: »

Did you not say you still install HKC panels?

I said i install what a customer requires, be that HKC, ARITECH, SIGNET and alot more panel that are all up to todays standards..

koolkid wrote: »

The problems with ID sensors is still rife. (Present tense not past). Thats why I', still changing them for more reliable sensors.

The problems are past tense, i have installed hundreds of these sensors and dont have any problems with them. As i said one of the biggest installers in Ireland use them with there hard wire installs. You change them as you cant use them on the signet not because they are not reliable.

koolkid wrote: »

The problems with HKC Poind ID sensors losing comms & voltage drop issues were well documented at the time.

From this post in hkc v signet you seem to agree it was an old fault they had, now it is back to haunt them. Dont think so to be honest...

koolkid wrote: »

Comparing upgrade from SigNet 100-200 You are obviousally not up to date on whats happening in the market.

Dont worry, i am well up to date on what is happening with the panels i use. The current signet 100 does not support web access as i stated. The panel has not got the capacity to take it either so if you want web access to your panel you need the signet 200 installed...

koolkid wrote: »

Signet 100 with web server will be out early this year. Probobly before HKC get out the wireless they have being trying to fix for the past 2 years.

The signet 100 with web server will be out late in the year, more likely october/november. The new HKC panel will be out in march.

koolkid wrote: »

TBH its clear by now you are one of those people who is afraid of change. You probobly stuck with Aritech CD range untill if stopped meeting the standards.

What type of a comment is this I install a wide range of alarm systems, be that HKC, ARITECH, SIGNET, ASTEC, POWERMAX. All the systems i install meet the requirement of todays standards as set out by the NSAI.

koolkid wrote: »

You keep selling the old stuff, its more business for us . I love pricing a job where someone has been quoted for HKC. I sell & install SigNet every time.

From what your saying you decide what system people get installed in there home. As an installer i advise people of there options and take it from there so you keep pushing and getting as much money off your customers as you can koolkid.......

KoolKid

Altor , TBH you are getting a little petty now. For some reason you seem to take negetive comments on HKC very personal.
It seems like you are drawing your own conclusions insted of paying attention to what I am saying.
I will just clarify a few things from your last post.
There are still issues with HKC sensors.(again I say present tense NOT Past) I am not going to be childish & get into my word against yours. Suffice to say we spend a lot of time removing them. So do most other installers I know. I am not in the habit of replacing equipment that works fine.

Re your point on webserver on SigNet 100. Here again you seem to not read my posts.
what I said was

Signet 100 with web server will be out early this year.

It may be delayed, i'm sure. But as someone probobly waiting for HKCs new panel you will be used to that. New HKC panel was also due last year in time for City West.
On you last point I do not decide what people want installed. I show them the latest systems & they decide. Obviousally any normal thinking person will buy the newer model,
Even you yourself admitted that.
When I asked

If you were buying any new electronice device for yourself or your home ( lets say a TV or Games Console) , presuming they are both the same cost would you buy an up to date one or one designed 15 years ago???

You yourself said

No i would not buy one,

As SigNet & HKC are the same price please explain your comment

you keep pushing and getting as much money off your customers as you can

If you can not back up such comments please have the respect to remove it.
(If I install a dearer panel the markup is the same as the same work is involved)
As anyone here I have done work for will tell you. I have often done work half or no call out..
I come on here to help people not to pimp my business. I am not the one with a company link in every post.