German and Italian

sambongo

Hi there,

Was wondering if the collective wisdom of the boards.ie community could tell me about German and Italian in Trinity. I'm thinking of taking both as TSM. There's a lot of information about German & Law but none about pure German and info on Italian is also scant.

What is it like to study Brecht and Kafka et al? Or, in the case of Italian, Dante and Bocaccio? What are the best aspects of the course? What are the worst...?What would you do differently if you could turn back time and do First Year again? Who are the most inspiring lecturers? etc etc

Four-Percent

Hey I know you! Your second name begins with an F, does it?

sambongo

Correct. And you are...?

smartarse2007

ok im only specking for the german side

i do business n german so i dont know about the TSM german course 100%

however what i do know is that in first yr you will be taking

german language
consisting of -german texts etc
-grammer
spoken german
-not very serious just to encourage you to speck in german

landeskunde
-lecure is done through german while tutorials are in english
- its all about german history mainly modern and german society, includes swiss and austrian aspects

german cultural studies
- you have to study german plays, novels and film
- no brecht or mann etc texts are generally hard but well worth a read
- personally however i wasnt looking to take such a module and found it to be very boring etc however TSM ppl seemed to enjoy it

towards the end of the year there are grammer tutorials to help you with any last minute grammer questions and to go through the entire grammer course before final exams

emm just to let you know the german dept in trinity has a reputation of being very strict and or hard with marking and has a very high failure rate in my course for instance we went from 17 in 1st yr to just 10 this yr with only 2 ppl dropping out however dont worry bout this as generally TSM ppl preform better but a high fail rate will still exist, just to let you know

oh this is mainly due to the fact that the german dept in TCD holds a much higher expectation of its students and has a more complicated course and examanations than other colleges

as far as i know bout italien with regard pass + failures its fail rate is way way way way way smaller

sambongo

Thanks very much for all that. That's the kind of info I'm looking for - stuff you don't find in the prospectus or on the website. Cheers smartarse2007!

smartarse2007

no prob at all if ya wanna know anyting else just ask

djcervi

I'm studying two languages through TSM (French and Spanish), not the languages which you're hoping to do but just a pointer:

For both languages you have to do at least two months in both countries of the languages you're studying, so 4 months of 2 language holidays for you. . Depending on the departments you can go away for the year, but it's better to go away in 2nd year, as if you go in 3rd year you'll have to do your final exams in one of your languages in the host university. At the same time you can defer a year and go abroad as well.

Can't speak personally about German and Italian, but I haven't heard many complaints. Italian (I think, don't quote me on it) has a high portion of beginners, so if you're coming in with LC Italian you might find it a bit boring at times. If not it'll probably be reassuring that (nearly) everybody is a beginner. German also do weekly pub nights where you go out to the pub with the german language assistants and other students to have drinks and practise german.

Hope that's a help.

sambongo

Thanks very much for that info, it was very helpful.

Bit of a tangent now but I know two people doing French & Spanish and they both much prefer Spanish. I'm studying French and German for LC at the moment and had thought of doing both but they've completely put me off. They tell me the French Department is MASSIVE and IMPERSONAL and a bit all over the place, which is why I'm now looking at doing Italian. Italian, by all accounts, is a much friendlier department. Would you think this is true...?

djcervi

I can see where your friends are coming from. I also prefer the Spanish part of my degree. Although I still do like French. IMO the French department do demand a high standard from their students. This standard is well above Spanish. The oral classes can be very challenging, and most people tend to shy away from speaking which makes things a little awkward. The grammar lectures this year have been very disorganised. Our lecturer before christmas was pregnant and usually had her hospital appointments on the day of our weekly grammar lecture, so we missed out on lectures we needed to help us cover grammar. We also don't have tutorials specifically covering grammar which is a disadvantage, as we have to cover and practise what we learn on our own. In this sense you need to be self sufficent, although with grammar I think there should be more contact outside the lecture. (Having said that we do have 2 'written' language tutorials where we read articles and write small 200 word French essays every week, which helps, but I think that one of those tutorials should really focus on grammar in particular).
However in Spanish for grammar we have 2 grammar lectures which are small groups, so we can focus on different rules and techniques. Also the teacher sets homework and we can ask questions during the class. This has been benefical for me, and i'd say it would be great if French had the same system.
Apart from grammar the French department is alright. In first year you have a contemporary France lecture and French texts (literature). Contemporary France is conducted in French, but the lecturer speaks clearly. It's one of the hardest part of the course, in terms of the examination. Many people do bad in it, but if you do well in grammar and language it shouldn't stop you from passing the year. Literature is conducted in English. The first two books of christmas term are Huis Clos by Jean Paul Sartre and En Attendant Godot by Samuel Beckett. They are interesting, but you are expected to read them on your own in French with a dictionary. However in the library and online you can find a translation. One of these books can be used in your christmas essay. You also would discuss both books in the lectures and tutorials.

To be honest I don't really have a problem with the French department, but as I'm studying 2 languages I find that I'm finding the Spanish department better than French in terms of language learning. In Spanish we have 2 small grammar lectures, a listening comprehension class, a text analysis class (reading Spanish newspaper articles), an oral class, Intro to Modern Spain lecture (Culture, History) and Intro to Spanish/ Spanish American literature. As a result I feel like I have support in learning the language in different ways.

In short I would probably say that if you're planning to do French, you would probably have to do a lot of work on your own, particularly in relation to grammar. However university is autonomous learning so it's probably normal.

Good luck with your choice.