Ulster Bank are threatening me

gsxr1

I have been on a financial hardship agreement paying a reduced rate on a 10k loan.


I got some casual work over summer and christmas .

after they reviewed my account they have decided to take me off the agreement

i have a big morgage and credit card loans which I have been keeping in check.

But now I have a 400 per month draw from ulsterbank to pay back the loan.


I cant pay it. Im on the dole.

the girl on the phone has said i must pay or it will go to legal proceedings.

I have offered to pay some off. maybe 150 per month. They dont care.

what can i do??

Toots

Keep paying as much as you can, and get in touch with MABS.

BuffyBot

..and maybe go in and speak to someone if at all possible, armed with the facts and figures. Sometimes the phone isn't the best place to deal with these things

lucky-colm

it would seem to me that the money from the casual summer and christmas work must have been paid into your bank a/c. upon the banks review of your account they have noticed that you have had increased income and now feel that you can resume normal payments.

i think toots is right get in touch with mabs they are good at this sort of thing



buffybot also makes a valid point go and see your bank manager or at least whoever is over your account and explain to them that your cicumstances have not changed and that the extra money in your a/c was from some temporary part time work and is not permanent.



i think i would try and meet the bank manager first and if that meeting dosn't go well, then i would go to mabs

gsxr1

will give mabs a try . thanks.

I really want to pay it all back. But redundancy have pulled the rug from under me early last year.

I was really surprised how it was such a black and white matter with them.

unclebill98

I find it hard to believe you've been treated like this, but hay lets say you where.

UB use a 6 month payment plan for all customers you are facing trouble. Is your loan in arrears? If so you can opt into a 6 month plan to clear arrears.

Is there long left on the loan you could extend the term but only do this if its makes a massive difference to the monthly payments.

Which dept are you dealing with? Cause this will depend on who you deal with and will tell me exactly what stage of trouble your in.

chris85

gsxr1 wrote: »

will give mabs a try . thanks.

I really want to pay it all back. But redundancy have pulled the rug from under me early last year.

I was really surprised how it was such a black and white matter with them.

MABS will help but you could be a month or more waiting on an appointment and the bank are under no obligation to hold and based on your posts i doubt they will.

Forward a budget to UB with an resonable offer. Remember if they take you to court and seek a judgment your ability to pay is not taken into account at all so try get an offer they will accept to prevent court.

Also it could be that UB had bad performance last month for their collections team and this collector was under pressure to get more money in and thats why they pushed for much more. Contact again and try get explain your situation again.

gsxr1

unclebill98 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe you've been treated like this, but hay lets say you where.

UB use a 6 month payment plan for all customers you are facing trouble. Is your loan in arrears? If so you can opt into a 6 month plan to clear arrears.

Is there long left on the loan you could extend the term but only do this if its makes a massive difference to the monthly payments.

Which dept are you dealing with? Cause this will depend on who you deal with and will tell me exactly what stage of trouble your in.

During the oxegen festival I got lots of work from the promoter. over 1000 euro was made.
then at christamas we where flat out again with stage work. I try my best to keep a healthy float of at least 500 quid in my current account. . We try not to touch my money and live of my wifes dole and and the few bits of work I can find . Which in turn has gave the bank the wrong idea. I really do struggle to make ends meet . But dont let my account fall low. Incase of unexpected things. (like an unfortunate fine or a new boiler ect... emergency money)

this has been held agaist me by the bank. It looks like I am doing OK.

she was not rude. But gave me no quarter in the matter of payback

the loan was arranged when I was on a 45k job. Now I have an income of around 16k . That wont work. legal action or not. They cant take the knickers of a bare arse. I dont have it. Not now anyway. hopefully thing will turn around.

unclebill98

If your dealing with Collections you at least have options of clearing up the arrears and entering some sort of a payment plan.

If your with Recoveries then your at the stage of settle loan in full or risk going to Court. If your at that stage then you should have been giving every chance to come to some arrangments. People at this stage either won't pay and stuck there head in the sand until it was too late or people who simply can't pay.

Unfortunatly you can't name your repayments and expect them to accpet them. Mabs will always suggest paying something be it even a token payment, but in the end of the day you took the loan and your being called in to pay it.

So as I said it depends on who your dealing with. If its Collections a visit to your branch could help. If its Recoveries, then your dealing with them only. They have the power to freeze your accounts and clean out the balance to your outstanding loans so its best to start using another bank.

Toots

As I said before, keep paying whatever you can. If it does go to court, a judge will look favourably on your attempts to make as much repayment as you can. Under no circumstances should you stop paying alltogether, a judge will take a dim view of that.

FibbersON

MABS will do a budget with you, or you can work one out yourself, MABS have a template. Show the judge you have attempted to pay what you can afford, worst case they'll decide to order you to continue paying that amount. Stress that you are unable not unwilling to pay.

chris85

Toots* wrote: »

As I said before, keep paying whatever you can. If it does go to court, a judge will look favourably on your attempts to make as much repayment as you can. Under no circumstances should you stop paying alltogether, a judge will take a dim view of that.

The bank will seek a judgment first. This does not take into account the defendants ability to pay. The judge will rule basically that the amount is owed by the person.

They can then ask the sheriff to get involved. Ability to pay is taken into account if the bank seek a court order which they would require a judgment against first.

gsxr1

i phoned the complaints department over the cold way the collections have handled it. And i am waiting on a call back.

I am not in arrears and have never missed any payments. Ever, on any loan I ever had.

I was thinking. If i applied for another loan to cover the lump sum and arranged lower payments over a longer period. Do they consider these options.

I am more worried about my credit rating than anything. I want to come out of this recession with the ability to borrow again. I really need a new van at some stage:(

gsxr1

chris85 wrote: »

The bank will seek a judgment first. This does not take into account the defendants ability to pay. The judge will rule basically that the amount is owed by the person.

They can then ask the sheriff to get involved. Ability to pay is taken into account if the bank seek a court order which they would require a judgment against first.

that seems really unfair. The reason most people are getting into trouble with the banks is redundancy. Its hardly their fault. Who is the judge trying to protect. The rich bank or the poor family man? This is terrible.

twowheelsonly

Was there a finishing/review date for your hardship repayments or did the bank just take it on themselves to review it?
I would imagine that this should be done in agreement with you as IMO if there was no date then it was a renegotiated payment schedule - but without any negotiation with you!!
As Toots says, continue paying at all costs. Any Judge will look in your favour once you do. If it does go to court they will most likely get the judgement against you 'in theory' but most likely an order will not be made against you once you have been paying at the latest agreed rate.

Andymfinancial

First things first, dont speak over the phone, always write and request reply in writing. This will ensure you have a record of ALL dealing with the bank. You need to write to the bank offering maybe 3 solutions that would be affordable to you (interest only payments?), and request that they also put forward solutions. This way you can show that you are willing to try and get out of the situation. If they do not wish to discuss any solutions write to the Financial Regulator and inform them that you are being bullied. Also look at how much debt the bank have allowed you to take on, if it is high in relation to your salary then i would advise you to request a copy of your bank file. You need to establish whether the original advice offering you these loans was appropriate and whether affordability was established by the bank. It is a regualation within the finance industry that they complete a factfind form for a mortgage, this will access affordabilty. Get a copy of it from the bank. If they did not access affordabilty you may have a case of mis advice and should pursue it via the Ombudsman

gsxr1

I was back on the phone with another more pleasant person in collections today.

She has agreed to review my finances with the prospect of taking out a new loan over 5 years to cover the 10k I owe. It will half my payments. Which i believe I can afford. .. It will cost me a bit more in the long run. But should keep me out of court and maintain a good credit rating .

I will sleep a bit better tonight.

Thanks for all your replies

unclebill98

So its collections then. Good to hear your sorted.

As for reporting banks to the Financial Regulator. This can not be done until you've gone through a banks complaints procedure. Only if you've not resolved your case can it be sent onto the Regulator.

stepbar

Andymfinancial wrote: »

First things first, dont speak over the phone, always write and request reply in writing. This will ensure you have a record of ALL dealing with the bank. You need to write to the bank offering maybe 3 solutions that would be affordable to you (interest only payments?), and request that they also put forward solutions. This way you can show that you are willing to try and get out of the situation. If they do not wish to discuss any solutions write to the Financial Regulator and inform them that you are being bullied. Also look at how much debt the bank have allowed you to take on, if it is high in relation to your salary then i would advise you to request a copy of your bank file. You need to establish whether the original advice offering you these loans was appropriate and whether affordability was established by the bank. It is a regualation within the finance industry that they complete a factfind form for a mortgage, this will access affordabilty. Get a copy of it from the bank. If they did not access affordabilty you may have a case of mis advice and should pursue it via the Ombudsman

It's a personal loan......


OP at a minimum you will have to meet interest. I'd say for a 10k loan this would be in the region of 700 - 1300 per year. At the end of the day a personal loan is given unsecured and as such they have no resourse to any of your assets (however I believe this going to change soon???)

INCONFIDENCE

I's say they are as happy as a pig in **** in the Uster Bank. They got you to take another loan and now they will make even more money. No wonder they were nice to you. Forget phone calls they are a load of crap , write , write and write again and when the **** hits the fan you will be seen as reasonable and up front and the bank for the bullies for which they are. If they dont reply all the better that will really show them up. Dont beg let treat them as they treat you with indifference and dont phione , write . I look after customer complaints as part of my job and I see the writers are always taken seriously the phone calls less so. If you threaten , Joe or Gerry or the Papers nobody takes you seriously , write and write it shows them up

hinault

INCONFIDENCE wrote: »

I's say they are as happy as a pig in **** in the Uster Bank. They got you to take another loan and now they will make even more money. No wonder they were nice to you. Forget phone calls they are a load of crap , write , write and write again and when the **** hits the fan you will be seen as reasonable and up front and the bank for the bullies for which they are. If they dont reply all the better that will really show them up. Dont beg let treat them as they treat you with indifference and dont phione , write . I look after customer complaints as part of my job and I see the writers are always taken seriously the phone calls less so. If you threaten , Joe or Gerry or the Papers nobody takes you seriously , write and write it shows them up

Good advice.

By putting it in writing, you are creating an audit trail and there can be zero ambiguity about what was said or what asurances were given, and when.

If the matter does got to court, you will at least be able to show that you contacted the lender and offered to repay what you could.
This would stand in your favour if matters did got to court.

I knwofrom dealing with the banks that they are under a lot of pressure regarding non-peforming loans.
They don't want to go the legal route if possible - which means that they will negotiate in order to avoid court/solicitors fees.

stepbar

INCONFIDENCE wrote: »

I's say they are as happy as a pig in **** in the Uster Bank. They got you to take another loan and now they will make even more money. No wonder they were nice to you. Forget phone calls they are a load of crap , write , write and write again and when the **** hits the fan you will be seen as reasonable and up front and the bank for the bullies for which they are. If they dont reply all the better that will really show them up. Dont beg let treat them as they treat you with indifference and dont phione , write . I look after customer complaints as part of my job and I see the writers are always taken seriously the phone calls less so. If you threaten , Joe or Gerry or the Papers nobody takes you seriously , write and write it shows them up

:rolleyes:

The bank, as a creditor, is well entitled to ask for their money back if you fail to keep up repayments. The bank isn't a charity!!!!!! If you got a builder into do some work and didn't pay him, you'd be up in court. If you make reasonable efforts to repay, as the OP eventually illustrated, they will work with you. If you don't, what other option do they have?

chris85

stepbar wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The bank, as a creditor, is well entitled to ask for their money back if you fail to keep up repayments. The bank isn't a charity!!!!!! If you got a builder into do some work and didn't pay him, you'd be up in court. If you make reasonable efforts to repay, as the OP eventually illustrated, they will work with you. If you don't, what other option do they have?

+1

If you owe the money expect to get called if you are behind. i know if someone owed me money i would be onto them.

But the banks have to treat people like human beings when discussing their financial matters and in my experience have been quite understanding in most circumstances.

The OP seems to be getting sorted so sounds good. As i said earlier was best to call them back and got through to someone else and got sorted.

gsxr1

chris85 wrote: »

+1

If you owe the money expect to get called if you are behind. i know if someone owed me money i would be onto them.

But the banks have to treat people like human beings when discussing their financial matters and in my experience have been quite understanding in most circumstances.

The OP seems to be getting sorted so sounds good. As i said earlier was best to call them back and got through to someone else and got sorted.

have to agree. The original phone operator was cold as hell and backed me into a corner. Which I responded to with equal vigor . I think both of us where getting more and more upset with each other. I posted here for advise because I was at my wits end and panicking. I was quite upset . I am still a bit. I have been a loyel customer for 15 years and as said always repayed in time. She was being a dick and should not be dealing with customers to be honest.

the next girl. the next day. Was understanding. Helpful and offered a working solution. I really need to retain good credit as I would like to move house at some stage . As well as get new wheels. This all has to be approved yet by the way. But its the only way. This way or the hard way.
Its only 10k and dont want it to haunt me forever

Toots

OP, glad to hear you got sorted. Even though it may end up costing you more in the long run, I think a restructure was the right thing for you in this instance. And if things improve over time, you could always make extra payments into the loan (just check is this ok before you do it) so it's paid off sooner, thus saving you money in interest.

carbsy

Sorry to bring this up again but what if someone has numerous debts with various banks and simply can't pay? Do they get sent to jail?

Chipboard

.

dogbert27

Hi OP,

you said that the initial problem stemmed from money going into your account from casual work that allowed UB to assume you were now able to make full repayments on the loan.

Would it be a good idea in future to have monies coming in from casual work go to a new bank account?

Toots

carbsy2 wrote: »

Sorry to bring this up again but what if someone has numerous debts with various banks and simply can't pay? Do they get sent to jail?

They 'can' but TBH it would have to be very very bad for it to have gotten to this stage. I do know customers who have been brought to court for not paying back their loans, but I've never known on who has been sent to jail. That said it can happen, but I would imagine (and I'm open to correction on this) that it would only get that bad if the customer simply refused to or was unable to make any sort of payment at all. Perhaps someone here who has more experience in this area could clear it up?

Chipboard

Toots* wrote: »

They 'can' but TBH it would have to be very very bad for it to have gotten to this stage.

No they can't. You can not be jailed in Ireland for non payment of debt. A bank can get a judgement against you and then they have a number of options. One of these is getting an instalment order. If the court grants an instalment order for you to pay say €20 per month and you don't pay it the bank can seek a committal order and you can be jailed - for breach of a court order, not for failing to repay the debt. There is a difference.

As far as I know nobody has been jailed for failing to meet in installment order in Ireland for several months. This is as a result of a successful legal challenge but I can't remember the names of the parties to it. Anyway, its not being done at present and I would say that it will be done away with soon as in a couple of years time you will be exceptional if you don't have an instalment order against you.

If you are in financial trouble start keeping account of every penny you spend and when it comes to meeting with MAB's you will be able to provide a cast iron account of how you spend your money. You may subsequently have to provide this to the court and if you provide an honest account of where your money goes (and the expenditure is on necessities) the judge won't grant too high an instalment order.

patwicklow

gsxr1 wrote: »

I have been on a financial hardship agreement paying a reduced rate on a 10k loan.


I got some casual work over summer and christmas .

after they reviewed my account they have decided to take me off the agreement

i have a big morgage and credit card loans which I have been keeping in check.

But now I have a 400 per month draw from ulsterbank to pay back the loan.


I cant pay it. Im on the dole.

the girl on the phone has said i must pay or it will go to legal proceedings.

I have offered to pay some off. maybe 150 per month. They dont care.

what can i do??

dont let them get to you with there treats iv had all that aswell and i can tell you the stress it can put on you and your family are unbearable and you only owe them 10k i owed 90k, 1st thing make an appointment with m.a.bs i promise you they are great your on the dole so they will break down all your monthly household expences esb ,phone,heating travel ect ect and ask them to set up an account so you can pay the monthly installments into via credit union and mabs then forward to payments on to the fatcat banks so for a 10k loan id say you will end up paying €20-€25 aweek so listen dont let them get to you. they cant get blood out of a stone and dont get stressed out if you get to mabs during next week i promise you will be feeling better this time next week good luck..

stepbar

patwicklow wrote: »

dont let them get to you with there treats iv had all that aswell and i can tell you the stress it can put on you and your family are unbearable and you only owe them 10k i owed 90k, 1st thing make an appointment with m.a.bs i promise you they are great your on the dole so they will break down all your monthly household expences esb ,phone,heating travel ect ect and ask them to set up an account so you can pay the monthly installments into via credit union and mabs then forward to payments on to the fatcat banks so for a 10k loan id say you will end up paying €20-€25 aweek so listen dont let them get to you. they cant get blood out of a stone and dont get stressed out if you get to mabs during next week i promise you will be feeling better this time next week good luck..

Probably illustrates your fine attidute towards money. :rolleyes:

Would barely cover the interest on a 10k loan. :rolleyes: In fact for most personal loans it probably wouldn't.

Toots

Chipboard wrote: »

No they can't. You can not be jailed in Ireland for non payment of debt. A bank can get a judgement against you and then they have a number of options. One of these is getting an instalment order. If the court grants an instalment order for you to pay say €20 per month and you don't pay it the bank can seek a committal order and you can be jailed - for breach of a court order, not for failing to repay the debt. There is a difference.

Technically there is a difference, but the long and short of it is, if you don't pay, you can go to jail. As far as the person paying back is concerned, they still have to part with money, and if they don't the consequences can still be the same.

That said it can happen, but I would imagine (and I'm open to correction on this) that it would only get that bad if the customer simply refused to or was unable to make any sort of payment at all.

patwicklow

stepbar wrote: »

Probably illustrates towards money. :rolleyes:

Would barely cover the interest on a 10k loan. :rolleyes: In fact for most personal loans it probably wouldn't.

yes i know that but when a person loses there job how can anyone pay the amount thats outstanding.you see banks dont understand that do they
it would be the amount of payment untill a person gets back on there feet
look at all the the ones that owe millions and what do the banks do??
yes take them out to dinner wine and dine them dont get me started
i know alot about how banks operate believe you me.

rugbyman

GSX
I agree largely with PatWicklow.
do not accept the new proposal until you see MABS. you mention a mortgage and credit card debt as well as this personal loan. The whole scenario must be looked at.
Also check your credit rating. you have mentioned this several times. It may well be impaired and once damaged it is very,very difficult if not impossible, to heal.

if ,as i suspect it is already impaired, then you have little to lose in that department and you can negotioate accordingly.

The bank staff you are dealing with prob havethe worst jobs in the bank, dealing with all those who are in trouble, and believe me , you are not in much trouble.
these bank staff are paid to try and get the banks money back. Some will try anything to get you to pay more than you can afford and some are reasonable.
best of luck, rely on Mabs, they are good

regards, rugbyman

Chipboard

Toots* wrote: »

Technically there is a difference, but the long and short of it is, if you don't pay, you can go to jail. As far as the person paying back is concerned, they still have to part with money, and if they don't the consequences can still be the same.

Its always amazes me how many people on these boards put up posts on subjects which they obviously no nothing about. You can't be jailed for non payment of debt, period.

If a court grants a judgement against you and then the Bank seek an instalment order, the court clerk will write to you seeking a statement of means. If this shows that you have a monthly surplus of say €10, the judge will probably grant an instalment order for this amount. Remember that this can and often does happen even in cases where the monthly interest is higher than this so its a good idea to keep it in mind that although the
debt collector (read; solicitor who can't get a real job) will lead you to believe that he has the upper hand, the reality is that he doesn't. Interest alone on a €15k term loan would come to around €100 a month so if the solicitor succeeds in getting an instalment order for €50 he is no further ahead.

Judges don't tend to grant instalment orders for more than the persons monthly surplus unless they believe the person has submitted a false statement of means. The reason for this is that they are conscious that if the Bank seeks a committal order they may have to jail you if you don't pay and judges don't like jailing people at the behest of banks. Even when you could be jailed for breaching an instalment order it was for a much smaller amount than the actual debt. If you refer to the second paragraph of my earlier post you will see that for the moment, committals to jail on this basis are a thing of the past.

So, you can't be jailed for non payment of debt - period.

It would be good if you didn't mislead people who are beset by financial worries into thinking they are going to end up in jail. Its bad enough without that. Its far more constructive to suggest positive things they can do to help themselves. Everyone should remember that Messrs McNamara, Dunne, Kelly etc etc aren't losing too much sleep over this so its a good idea to keep these things in perspective.

Toots

Chipboard, if you read my post again, the word can was in inverted commas, I didn't state anywhere that if you simply stopped paying your loan you'll just go to jail straight off. I said that I believed it is possible (whether likely or not is beside the point). To the best of my knowledge, if you were brought to court, failed to pay installment order etc, there is a possibility that you can be jailed. I was unaware that procedure had changed. Just out of my own interest, could you link me to something that gives more details on when the situation changed regarding being jailed for non payment of instalment orders? I'd be interested to give it a read and get more info.

I would ask that you refrain from making comments such as this, it's not helpful to anyone.

debt collector (read; solicitor who can't get a real job)

carbsy

Just to clarify, you can't be jailed for not paying a debt.Just brought before the courts and possibly have a judgement brought against you if you have the capacity to pay and do not do so....

Christine45

OP, you have received good advise from PatWicklow and Chipboard.

I have a debt of 20k that I simply cannot pay off at the moment. I've now lost my job and am doing my best to keep afloat by paying credit union and my mortgage.

Like others I too was terrified of court or possible jail.

What Carsby has said is correct. To cut a long story short I was lucky to finally get an understanding person in the bank. They told me that they only bring people to court who are refusing to come to some sort of arrangement.

I have now started the ball rolling by making an offer of reduced payments that I can afford. The bank have yet to agree to this but from what I have heard its more than likely they will agree.

OP, I hope everything works out for you.