Please can someone justify continued support for Fianna Fail

Laminations

Here's an anecdote -

A family hires a babysitter to watch their kids.
All seemingly goes well for years.
Then they discover the babysitter has been raping the kids.
The father turns to the mother
'what should we do?'
The mother replies
'I don't know, who else will we get to babysit? there's no real alternative?'

Now thats quite an unbelievable response from the parents, ay?

Similarly Fianna Fail have raped this country, its ridiculous to hear people debating the alternatives. FF need to be put out of power for the sake of the country, they need to be put out of power to punish them for their behaviour. Saying there is no alternative without giving an alternative a chance is idiotic.

FF supporters, in their defence of the indefensible, are similar to those who stood up in court to shake that convicted rapists hand.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1217/1224260840003.html
How do you justify yourselves??

Do you argue that FF haven't done untold damage to this country? Do you simply ignore the damage?

And the recent persecution complex you have developed is no form of defence.
FF apologists wonder why no one will calmly debate them? would there have been a point in debating with a nazi sympathizer?? and make no mistake, when the smoke clears you will realise you were fighting on the wrong side.

Justify yourselves
Because at the moment you stand over corruption, gross mismanagement, incompetence, and cronyism

ei.sdraob

Please can someone justify continued support for Fianna Fail

sure thats easy:

welfare expenditure
2000 - €6.7 billion
2010 - €21.1 billion

:eek:

buying the electorate on borrowed money and once-off property sales tax receipts Fianna Fail style

Joey the lips

I dont support fianna failure. However I think these threads are pointless

The reason fianna failure are in power is not because of those who vote for them its a combination of those who dont vote for them and those who dont vote. The only co ordinated voting in this country is those who vote fianna failure. The next co ordinated vote is those who dont vote.

Additionally any area that votes michael lowry back into govt has not got morals.


So really it can be summed up that the reason that fianna failure are in power is there is no solid voteing and no morals in a voter.

Simple really.


Oh by the way... They will be still in power after the next election. I would bet on it if given the odds.

Laminations

I appreciate the reasons fianna fail are still in power, voter apathy, coordinated voting etc. What this post is trying to achieve is getting those who actually continue to support ff and vote ff to come on here and justify themselves. Whats their reasoning? How can they defend the indefensible?

dlofnep

My parents have always voted for Fianna Fáil. My father refuses to anymore, but my mother is of the opinion that other parties wouldn't have dealt with the crisis any better, and that no partied envied Fianna Fáil's position. She is of the opinion that Fianna Fáil made hard choices for overall good.

Me personally, I've never voted for them and never will.

hallelujajordan

Joey the lips wrote: »

I dont support fianna failure. However I think these threads are pointless

Quite agree . . Another pointless "I hate FF" thread, but I'm sure the usual suspects will chip in and vent their rage. . .

But OP I'll give you a tip . . if you want to engage in rational debate with FF supporters, don't start by comparing them to Nazi's or rapists. . . .

Dinner

Laminations wrote: »

Here's an anecdote -

A family hires a babysitter to watch their kids.
All seemingly goes well for years.
Then they discover the babysitter has been raping the kids.
The father turns to the mother
'what should we do?'
The mother replies
'I don't know, who else will we get to babysit? there's no real alternative?'

Now thats quite an unbelievable response from the parents, ay?

Thats a crap anecdote.*


*Although I think you're looking for the word metaphor. In which case, thats a crap metaphor.

Laminations

I dont hate FF. I juv disagree with practically everything they stand for. And would it be a pointless thread to try and understand the underlying support for the BNP in britain? Lastly i dont expect engaging debate with FF supporters, in the same way i dont expect a reasoned debate with any fundamentalist blind follower.

cm2000

bad anecdote

If we want to use the babysitter analogy here's a closer one.

A family hires a babysitter to watch their kids.
All seemingly goes well for years, the kids are always in a good mood and full of energy when the parents get home.
This is only because the babysitter gives the kids so much sugar, but everything is going so well that the parents go along with it and even give the babysitter a raise.
Then all the other babysitters in town want the high paying job and say they will give sugar to the kids too and more of it.

After a number of years the kids teeth are rotten and they are malnourished. The parents are mad, even though they should have known what was going on and all the other babysitters want the job saying they never would have done anything like that.

The point here is that of course ff failed us. But they were up front about their policies for the most part. We accepted them and the opposition were so weak or stupid that they followed suit.

I honestly dont know who the hell im going to vote for.

Laminations

Dinner wrote: »

Thats a crap anecdote.*


*Although I think you're looking for the word metaphor. In which case, thats a crap metaphor.

I meant anecdote as in short story to illustrate a point. But crap or not my point is that FF have figuratively raped this country over the past 15years, please argue the opposite if you must

paddyland

Fianna Fáil are basically a very large boy's club, not a political party at all in the true sense. They have no true ideology, but exist purely to further the interests of their own members at the expense of everyone else. By joining Fianna Fáil, you are hoping to gain that little bit more than your neighbour who does not join. Nobody ever joined Fianna Fáil in the hopes of doing something for the national good.

That was all right for years, as the rural politicians scratched each other's backs and looked after their own, and the country muddled through. However, we live in more enlightened and more ruthless times. Two generations of Fianna Fáil cabinets arose, under Haughey, and later under Ahern, who took the boy's club ideology to it's extreme. Not being content with ruling the largest party in the land, and being pretty well off in consequence, they pushed just too hard, and destroyed the country.

Bertie Ahern had much of the makings of a good leader. He could have sailed through three elections, or even more, leaving a legacy of a country well provided for, and a sound economic base, and been toasted for it. But he couldn't be content with winning on merit, he had to win hard and ruthlessly, and destroy others along the way, the mark of no real self confidence or future vision. He was the child who went to the birthday party, grabbed the birthday cake, and rather than be content with a slice or two, wolfed the whole lot, and knocked down any other child who tried to get a slice. He then got sick all over the dining room floor.

The very existence of Fianna Fáil skews the natural political process in this country, siphoning off both the left and the right into a narrow, self serving club of people, whose vision is no more than what personal gain can be made at the expense of your neighbour. You might get away with this for years, even a generation or two. But as we have seen, eventually it all falls down, and is exposed for the rot it is.

Laminations

To argue that all parties would have made the same mistakes and similarly mismanaged the economy is.mt fair. Just recently take NAMA, the opposition parties all had alternative suggestions for dealing with the banks. Now i know the jury is out on NAMA but Its very easy to say the other options not seeing the light of day would have failed. Also regardless of what parties offer prior to elections if you look at the opposition speeches debating the governments budgets you'll see they were advocating alternatives

Eliot Rosewater

cm2000's anecdote is much better

The fact that social welfare doubled between 2000 and 2005 is shocking: did the cost of living rise that much? Yet any attempt to lower it is met with accusations of hurting the "vulnerable". More than any other aspect of government, social welfare has me most annoyed. It is, literally, the main means by which the masses' votes are bought. Social welfare isn't about the welfare anymore. Which makes the cries against rationalization all the more misguided.

Social welfare is the sugar. Its hurting the kids, for sure, but try and take it off of them and they will squeal.

Joey the lips

ei.sdraob wrote: »

sure thats easy:

welfare expenditure
2000 - €6.7 billion
2010 - €21.1 billion

:eek:

buying the electorate on borrowed money and once-off property sales tax receipts Fianna Fail style

Statasically this is incorrect as those on welfare tend to be the poorest of the nation and those who do not vote.

Dont take my word the govt stats are there to show this. Its why the welfare was targeted and not the worker this time.

nesf

Laminations wrote: »

FF supporters, in their defence of the indefensible, are similar to those who stood up in court to shake that convicted rapists hand.

For this comment this thread is closed. Any more like this and you'll find yourself banned from the forum. Accusing FF voters as being similar to those who would shake a convicted rapist's hand is completely unacceptable on this forum.

It is perfectly possible to lambaste FF without stooping to such levels.