Minimum for deer in Scotland

Hibrion

Can anyone clarify what the minimum caliber for deer stalking is in Scotland? I think its a 243 but I have heard otherwise from some.
I'm in the market for a stalking rifle and would like to have the option of stalking in Scotland. This will be my first stalking rifle but I'd like to think it might possibly be the last:D. I'm thinking of a 243 at the moment but I'm considering a 25-06 or 308 also.

Thanks,
Hibrion

clivej

From the DCS 2008:

For all specise of deer
Min bullet weight = 100gr
Min Muzzel Velocity = 2,450 ft/sec
Min Muzzel Energy = 1,750 foot pounds.
All 3 conditions must be meet and bullets must be of the expanding type.

For all Roe deer only
Min bullet weight = 50gr
Min Muzzel Velocity = 2,450 ft/sec
Min Muzzel Energy = 1,000 foot pounds.
All 3 conditions must be meet and bullets must be of the expanding type.

here we go again

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055752492

It wasn't me!

I've heard of estates with policies of .270 and upwards and .30 calibres and up for red deer stalking, so if you want an all-rounder, one of those is going to be best, though if you only intend stalking roe, then most will allow anything legal. I'd take a .308 as an all-round deer rifle though, cracking calibre.

Hibrion

I'm looking at a light rifle so would the 308 have a very heavy recoil/noise in such a setup?
How do you find the 25-06 IWM?

It wasn't me!

Hibrion wrote: »

I'm looking at a light rifle so would the 308 have a very heavy recoil/noise in such a setup?
How do you find the 25-06 IWM?

Still waiting on my own, actually. I've shot a .30-06 and a .270 however, and for what it's worth, they're not bad. .30-06 has a bit of poke alright, but a .270 doesn't kick hard, and .308 doesn't kick much harder. Won't be bad in a light rifle, and will be a fantastic hunting gun, especially if you fancy taking it abroad for boar at any stage. I'm personally considering a light .300 win mag as I have decent tolerance for recoil, but I reckon anyone with some rifle experience would be happy enough to handle a light .308 if the stock fits them okay. A light .308 is a fantastic idea for a deer rifle. A friend of mine's just bought a Sauer 202 in .308 and I love it, it's a superb rifle, and as nice to handle as you could ask for.

Hibrion

Was thinking of an M77 Hawkeye, have heard good things and they're a great looking rifle as well. The only thing is the ruger synthetic stocks are very light and heard this can increase recoil, but if a 308 doesn't kick that bad anyway it would be a good setup. It would be great to have the option of boar hunting if the funds ever stretch that far.
Hopefully you'll get the 25-06 soon.

It wasn't me!

Hibrion wrote: »

Was thinking of an M77 Hawkeye, have heard good things and they're a great looking rifle as well. The only thing is the ruger synthetic stocks are very light and heard this can increase recoil, but if a 308 doesn't kick that bad anyway it would be a good setup. It would be great to have the option of boar hunting if the funds ever stretch that far.
Hopefully you'll get the 25-06 soon.

I like the Rugers. It's a good, solid rifle. They're quite accurate too. .308 is a great round. It'd be worth your while handling as many rifles as you can to get a good feel for them, then pick the one you feel best shooting and which is accurate. Won't go wrong then. I'm looking forward to picking up the new Sako alright, should hopefully be in the safe in the next shot while with any luck. Might get a deer or two with it this year yet.

Hibrion

Figures crossed. Would like to hear how the 25-06 shoots when you do get to take it out.

It wasn't me!

Hibrion wrote: »

Figures crossed. Would like to hear how the 25-06 shoots when you do get to take it out.

No problem. It's fast and flat. Will definitely be able to show target photos anyway. Will hopefully be able to show effects on live game too. It's meant to be like the hammer of Thor for just about all deer species.

Hibrion

What are the ammo prices for the 25-06 like IWM?

It wasn't me!

Hibrion wrote: »

What are the ammo prices for the 25-06 like IWM?

None too pretty I'm afriad. Cheapest I've found for Federal Power-Shok is €30 a box, from John Lambert in Camolin. The Federal Premium stuff is all between €40 and €45 however. It's not the cheapest round to run. I'm looking forward to trying it though. I figure, for a deer hunting rifle, over the time if takes to use ammo, the difference between €30 and €40 a box doesn't really mean enough to argue about it, and if the round works, I'll be very pleased with it.

BoarHunter

270 WSM is the all rounder and keeps maximum power at very long range. You might have to take a very long shot in the bare highlands of Scotland. 270 WSM is the reference now for mountain stalking ( mountain sheep, Big horn and so on ). I shoot accubond myself.

be careful the caliber is very flat and quick and work best over 100 yards. below this, the ammo doesn't work inside your target at its best.

clivej

My Sako 75 308 varmint with fluted barrel does all I want and no kick to talk of. Seen here in a synthetic stock and ASE Northstar mod. I use a 'Gunslinger' to take the weight from my shoulders when stalking and I can carry the 308 around all day @8 3/4lb all up (ex bi-pod and mod). Using Federal Fusion 150gr rounds @€;28 and getting sub MOA with them.
Bushnell 6-24x50 tactical scope.






Laminated Sako 75 stock bought off E bay.

sfakiaman

The DCS mentioned by Clive in his post, is the Deer Commission for Scotland. The have a good web site that you should look at if shooting there is on your agenda.

clivej

sfakiaman wrote: »

The DCS mentioned by Clive in his post, is the Deer Commission for Scotland. The have a good web site that you should look at if shooting there is on your agenda.

And buy the "Best Practise Guidance" manual from them. Best £15 I have ever spent on any book.

jwshooter

243 is not a good choice ,30,06 ,270,25,05
iv shots reds on the hills of scotland with a 25,06 ,270 . estates will generally keep you on a tight lead until you have proven yourself ,this may take a while but using a 243 or 6.5 will not help.
shots are usually not over 200yds .but iv shot them at a bit with that.

hill reds in scotland dont take a lot of killing compared to our sika.

A flat shooting ,wind bucking round is what your after.

if recoil is worrying you .shoot from a bench wear plugs and muffs a good jacket and padded vest.

Hibrion

Thanks guys, the DCS website is very good, plenty of info on there.
I'm not so much worried about recoil really just want to get the best setup for what I expect I will need.
Most people I know around me (in the Wicklow/Wexford area) that stalk use the 243, a few have changed down from bigger calibers like the 270 because of the recoil and they feel the 243 shoots better for them. It will obviously have less recoil which is good but I don't want to shoot anything, here or in any other country, and be under gunned.

JW you didn't mention the 308, any opinions on it and how it performs??

Hibrion

One other question, is the 308 overkill on a fox? I have a 223 which I will be getting rid of to help fund the new rifle and at the moment I don't do much foxing anymore. But it would be nice to be able to deal with charlie humanely if he started giving hassle again.

sfakiaman

If the ground you shoot foxes over is suitable for a .308 then why not. I don't think overkill applies on something you're not going to eat. Remington do a managed recoil loading in .308 with a 125gr bullet at 2660 fps that could be nice to try but I don't know if anyone stocks it here.

Hibrion

sfakiaman wrote: »

If the ground you shoot foxes over is suitable for a .308 then why not. I don't think overkill applies on something you're not going to eat. Remington do a managed recoil loading in .308 with a 125gr bullet at 2660 fps that could be nice to try but I don't know if anyone stocks it here.

Thanks sfakiaman, I shoot most on one very big farm thats very hilly which gives loads of backstops but also often requires long shots so it would be good for the 308.
If I go for this caliber should I bother putting occasional foxing on the "why do you require this firearm" section or just leave it at deer stalking and use it when the odd fox is poking around after lambs?

jwshooter

the 308 is a grand round using the right bullet. 150gr ballistic tip would be a good place to start.

i had a guy out using a loaded 110gr v max in a .30 also 125gr ballistic tip if you can get them .
you would not want to go above 150gr for ireland in any cal for that matter.
125gr BT/SST would be ideal if you could get them .

the nicest rifle i handled in a long time was a sako 75 timber stock in 308 it had something like swro 2.5-10x42 on it.

Hibrion

Thanks, I'm leaning towards the 308 now, gives the opportunity for boar eventually as well.
I'll be topping the rifle with the S&B 8x56 thats on my 223 at the moment. Figure this is enough scope for the time being anyway, its served my well on foxes and rabbits out to about 300 yards so far.

Hibrion

Thanks for all the help fellas. The right gun came my way so I took it! Paid off on a Remington 700 stainless synthetic in 308 today:D. Can't wait till next deer season!!!

jwshooter

well done man ,new,used ,how much.

Hibrion

Thanks JW. Used, well just barely... ha. Got a T8 mod for it as well. Traded in my 223 against it with a couple of hundred yoyos. Just really liked it when I saw it, it was a really well balanced rifle and just felt comfortable. I wanted a stainless barrel and synthetic stock and a 308 in a good rifle and I think I checked all the boxes!

doyle61

have a rem 700 in .308 myself and love it. fair play to you, hope you enjoy it and have lots of luck with it next season

clivej

Hibrion wrote: »

Thanks JW. Used, well just barely... ha. Got a T8 mod for it as well. Traded in my 223 against it with a couple of hundred yoyos. Just really liked it when I saw it, it was a really well balanced rifle and just felt comfortable. I wanted a stainless barrel and synthetic stock and a 308 in a good rifle and I think I checked all the boxes!

Hibrion get some photos up ASAP ans share the good news.

Hibrion

Only have a dodgy picture on the phone cos its still in the dealers. I'll see if I can load it up to the pc. Back to square one now with another load of license nonsense too:rolleyes:.

Hibrion

Finally received my grant letter for the remmy and I will be collecting it at the end of the week.

deerhunter1

Hibrion wrote: »

Can anyone clarify what the minimum caliber for deer stalking is in Scotland? I think its a 243 but I have heard otherwise from some.
I'm in the market for a stalking rifle and would like to have the option of stalking in Scotland. This will be my first stalking rifle but I'd like to think it might possibly be the last:D. I'm thinking of a 243 at the moment but I'm considering a 25-06 or 308 also.

Thanks,
Hibrion

Go 308 will not go wrong

tfox

Hibrion wrote: »

Thanks, I'm leaning towards the 308 now, gives the opportunity for boar eventually as well.
I'll be topping the rifle with the S&B 8x56 thats on my 223 at the moment. Figure this is enough scope for the time being anyway, its served my well on foxes and rabbits out to about 300 yards so far.

If your thinking of going to France after boar with the .308 as far as I know you still cant use .308 there as its a military round (7.62)

Tackleberrywho

tfox wrote: »

If your thinking of going to France after boar with the .308 as far as I know you still cant use .308 there as its a military round (7.62)

Where you hear/see that

Sounds a little odd, but the french are odd

C'est plane pour moi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDfmn_TMkI

tfox

My Bosses Uncle lives in France and he goes over after boar fairly often and brings his 6.5 as the French wont allow .308 as it's a military round. they have come up with a .307 to get round this problem I think.

The French all say 6.5 more than adequate for boar, and I've had the 1st hand experience to confirm that

It wasn't me!

Aye, they're odd like that. Ideally, I'd have a .30-06, but because of their laws, I couldn't use it there, and since I'd love to hunt in France, I'd step up to .300 win mag (And yes, they don't seem to have copped that it's fairly common among militaries as a calibre - sshh!)