Jacket issue.

Frank Bullitt

Bought this jacket
http://www2.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=ap&model=ALFL&language=en
It was for christmas, but walking home today in the rain i felt wet patches at the back of the shoulders on my t-shirt.

The description says its water proof,i wasn't expecting it to hold up in a hurricane but the rain i was walking in was not heavy at all and yet it has let water in.

Bought it in the Great Outdoors for 250 so i was expecting it to hold up to a little rain, have the receipt so do you think i have a leg to stand on for at least a replacement or money back?

Thanks.

dudara

I'll ask a stupid question, but could the water have come in around the neck or some other exposed area?

If this is not the case, then the jacket clearly isn't waterproof. Return it to the store for your refund/replacement/repair (as appropriate).

Frank Bullitt

dudara wrote: »

I'll ask a stupid question, but could the water have come in around the neck or some other exposed area?

If this is not the case, then the jacket clearly isn't waterproof. Return it to the store for your refund/replacement/repair (as appropriate).

No the water came in at seems around the back of the shoulders/top of the back. I wouldnt have said much about it only that all the other seems are fine and it just seems to be these 2 (they are a semetric design at the back,if you get me,identical at either side)

monkeypants

Should be okay to bring it back if you have the receipt. Just stay cool and explain the problem. Most problems with shops start with people storming in and starting a barney.

Frank Bullitt

monkeypants wrote: »

Should be okay to bring it back if you have the receipt. Just stay cool and explain the problem. Most problems with shops start with people storming in and starting a barney.

Cheers,if they say well thats what happens with the jacket then so be it,im annoyed but i know its not the shops problem,hopefully they can see it from my point of view anyway.

dudara

Gintonious wrote: »

No the water came in at seems around the back of the shoulders/top of the back. I wouldnt have said much about it only that all the other seems are fine and it just seems to be these 2 (they are a semetric design at the back,if you get me,identical at either side)

Sounds like the jacket is defective alright. As monkeypants says, take it back with receipt and the shop should sort you out.

Frank Bullitt

Thanks for the help,ill let you know how i get on.

Frank Bullitt

Just noticed at the bottom of the receipt "we will happily refund any item returned as new within 28 days with original receipt"

So hopefully something gets sorted.

foggy_lad

this is only if you wished to return after changing your mind i would think, if the jacket is faulty ie;should be waterproof but lets water in then you are entitled to a repair replacement or a refund.

Frank Bullitt

foggy_lad wrote: »

this is only if you wished to return after changing your mind i would think, if the jacket is faulty ie;should be waterproof but lets water in then you are entitled to a repair replacement or a refund.

I dont mind if i get store credit or whatever,as long as something gets sorted ill be happy.

dudara

Gintonious wrote: »

I dont mind if i get store credit or whatever,as long as something gets sorted ill be happy.

Given that the jacket is defective, your consumer rights override the store's refund policy. You are entitled to a refund (via original method of payment), replacement or repair. In this situation store credit would be less than what you are entitled to.

Frank Bullitt

dudara wrote: »

Given that the jacket is defective, your consumer rights override the store's refund policy. You are entitled to a refund (via original method of payment), replacement or repair. In this situation store credit would be less than what you are entitled to.

I see,i didnt know that,hopefully it doesnt get too messy anyway,last thing i want is an argument really,fingers crossed it all goes well, and i either get my money back or a replaced jacket.

Frank Bullitt

Well it didnt go well today,there was a sense of "Ah you didnt ask so its your problem" about the conversations.

The worker essentially said that its my fault for not asking if it can resist a shower and that thats what happens with the jackets, I asked if i could exchange it as i still have the receipt but she said no cause i had already worn it, I do remember from school though that if you have your receipt that you are entitled by law to some sort of refund,store credit etc?

I also found the tags that were on the coat and it says nothing about not being water proof,it also has a nice little diagram showing the material repelling water from it.

anyone have any suggestions or is that it?

Oryx

If the tag says waterproof, (as your web link certainly does) then it should be waterproof, and it is not. Go back and speak to a more senior staff member. The product should be 'as described' by whatever means that description is given, tag or staff.

If an item is not faulty, you are not entitled to return it, whether you have the receipt or not. Some shops do this as a courtesy, but they are not legally obliged to.

Del2005

Oryx wrote: »

If the tag says waterproof, (as your web link certainly does) then it should be waterproof, and it is not. Go back and speak to a more senior staff member. The product should be 'as described' by whatever means that description is given, tag or staff.

If an item is not faulty, you are not entitled to return it, whether you have the receipt or not. Some shops do this as a courtesy, but they are not legally obliged to.

+1, print out the page you linked to and bring it with you. As for having to ask, why would you ask when you'd researched the jacket you wanted on the 'net and it said waterproof there. Also if they say that all jackets leak abit that's BS, done use that word though.

When I was buying a motorbike jacket I asked the fella was it it waterproof and he said it was to which I replied if not see you soon. He then said that he'd bought a jacket for fishing and it had let water in, when he took it back the shop said no jackets are waterproof. He told then that he sells 100% waterproof jackets and if they aren't he has to change it.

monkeypants

Gintonious wrote: »

The worker essentially said that its my fault for not asking if it can resist a shower and that thats what happens with the jackets

The description you posted states "The shell is waterproof too." I don't think any further questions need to be asked. The jacket is not performing as expected and they should do something about it.

Frank Bullitt

Yeah the first assistant i asked said "the hyvent material is waterproof yeah" but then said i had to go upstairs cause they were moved, then i asked the other assistant and thats when i got the stuff about "well you should have asked really", then she got the manager and she said that although it is water "resistant" that the seems are not.

dearg lady

Gintonious wrote: »

Yeah the first assistant i asked said "the hyvent material is waterproof yeah" but then said i had to go upstairs cause they were moved, then i asked the other assistant and thats when i got the stuff about "well you should have asked really", then she got the manager and she said that although it is water "resistant" that the seems are not.

Given what you've posted, I'm shocked at the reaction of the shop. It seems pretty open and closed to me, the jacket says waterproof, but it is not.

While your contract IS with the shop it's worth remembering North Face offer life time guarantees on all items, well I assume they still do. So it really should be no issue for the shop, they should be able to return it to North Face and get a refund themselves.

Do you still have the tags? I know the tags with mine specified lifetime guarantee.

Frank Bullitt

Yeah still have the tags,has a little illustration of water drops bouncing away from the outside,in the shop they said it was water resistant but in the description in the link it says "The shell is waterproof".

Reckon ill give it another go,my mam said as well that something should have been done,and when i told her that they said it was my issue cause i never asked about weather it was water proof or not she said thats a joke.

Del2005

Gintonious wrote: »

Yeah the first assistant i asked said "the hyvent material is waterproof yeah" but then said i had to go upstairs cause they were moved, then i asked the other assistant and thats when i got the stuff about "well you should have asked really", then she got the manager and she said that although it is water "resistant" that the seems are not.

Classic. How the hell they can they say that? The material is waterproof but the seams aren't. So what's the point of waterproofing the material

dudara

If the shop fails to deal with you, then contact North Face directly. I'm sure that they will take more of an interest in it.

Shocking attitude by the shop.

mono_mac

deja vu

Frank Bullitt

mono_mac wrote: »

deja vu

Bad experience?

tommy21

Gintonious wrote: »

Yeah still have the tags,has a little illustration of water drops bouncing away from the outside,in the shop they said it was water resistant but in the description in the link it says "The shell is waterproof".

Reckon ill give it another go,my mam said as well that something should have been done,and when i told her that they said it was my issue cause i never asked about weather it was water proof or not she said thats a joke.

Did you speak to a manager? I can't believe someone in control would try and fob you off like this!

Run_to_da_hills

I have a North Face Gortex jacket I wear over a leather jacket on motorbike when it lashes. Bought it 10 years ago in Great Outdoors for almost £200 still as waterproof as the day I got it although the zip could do with replacement.

I would contact Northface directly if Great Outdoors were reluctant to cooperate.

Frank Bullitt

tommy21 wrote: »

Did you speak to a manager? I can't believe someone in control would try and fob you off like this!

It is weird, i was put onto a manger and she just said," is this one of the down jackets,see these leak at the seems cause the jacket is no waterproof" even though it says it is on the north face site, im kinda stuck at what to do really.

sunnysoutheast

Gintonious wrote: »

It is weird, i was put onto a manger and she just said," is this one of the down jackets,see these leak at the seems cause the jacket is no waterproof" even though it says it is on the north face site, im kinda stuck at what to do really.

You're being fobbed off, as others have said. The jacket is clearly not of merchantable quality.

What I would you do is draft a letter to the manager (get a third party to call the shop to find our his/her name) which states that you wish to enforce your consumer rights in their shop and that you do not believe the jacket to be of merchantable quality. Make sure you include the quotes that you've already been told on your previous attempts. State in the letter that you will contact both North Face and the small claims court if the shop does not comply with consumer law.

Print it off and take it with you to the shop, a quiet time is best. Ask for the manager and explain very calmly and reasonably that you are rejecting the jacket as it is not waterproof. If you are still being fobbed off then hand the letter to the manager and do your best to force them to read it there and then. Then, depending on the reaction, follow through on your threats!

FWIW I've had North Face and Columbia jackets and they have stood up to years of abuse skiing and boarding. "Seams not waterproof"! Cobblers!

Good luck

SSE

BTW - it doesn't matter if the jacket was reduced.

dudara

Gintonious wrote: »

im kinda stuck at what to do really.

No you're not. Contact North Face directly. Link

sunnysoutheast

dudara wrote: »

No you're not. Contact North Face directly. Link

The first port of call should be the retailer, particularly a month after purchase, and I think North Face will say that if contacted. If you get no joy from the shop then I agree that North Face would be very interested in hearing how their product is being represented. I don't think it will come to that as long as the OP explains their position clearly.

SSE

Frank Bullitt

Just seems a little weird to me, either i really am missing something or the jacket is faulty,but as some have said North Face jackets rarely ever go wrong,now it does say that the shell is waterproof,which when you read it would definitely make you feel confident about going for a walk in the drizzle.

I suppose when you read on the North Face site The shell is waterproof too and then the manager of the department in the shop tells you its only water resistant then something is up,my Dad is going mad over it,mainly over the fact that the jacket cost so much yet a little bit of rain is getting in.

What is pissing me off the most though is this "well you should have asked if it was water proof in fairness",gimme a break.

Edit* found this is a section on the page with the jacket
HYVENT FABRIC™
Hyvent™ is a superior, waterproof, breathable technology utilizing a polyurethane (PU) coating that consists of a tri-component mutli-layer formula for waterproof protection, moisture permeability and durability.

copacetic

Not to be a naysayer, but the spec on the jacket clearly doesn't say it is seam-sealed. Non seam-sealed jackets can leak at the seams, but usually only in heavy rain or if you are wearing a pack or something that forces the moisture into the seams.

If you look at the other jackets there are plenty of seam sealed ones.

So possibly you wouldn't expect this jacket to leak in a shower, but it's also definitely not one you would buy expecting it to be fully waterproof.

I'd imagine north face would be willing to look at it to see is it faulty or is it just the seams leaking.

Frank Bullitt

copacetic wrote: »

Not to be a naysayer, but the spec on the jacket clearly doesn't say it is seam-sealed. Non seam-sealed jackets can leak at the seams, but usually only in heavy rain or if you are wearing a pack or something that forces the moisture into the seams.

If you look at the other jackets there are plenty of seam sealed ones.

So possibly you wouldn't expect this jacket to leak in a shower, but it's also definitely not one you would buy expecting it to be fully waterproof.

I'd imagine north face would be willing to look at it to see is it faulty or is it just the seams leaking.

Thats what i was thinking you see,but then i wonder why would the jacket be waterproof but not seal the seems,which would make it not waterproof?

copacetic

Gintonious wrote: »

Thats what i was thinking you see,but then i wonder why would the jacket be waterproof but not seal the seems,which would make it not waterproof?

It's a snowsports jacket, so is waterproof in that sitting/falling in snow etc is fine, but it's not ideal for any length of time in the rain.

I know its great to be smart in hindsight but you'll see from the site it's not included in the waterproof shell section.

It would still be unusual for it to leak so easily, unless you were wearing a backpack?

Frank Bullitt

copacetic wrote: »

It's a snowsports jacket, so is waterproof in that sitting/falling in snow etc is fine, but it's not ideal for any length of time in the rain.

I know its great to be smart in hindsight but you'll see from the site it's not included in the waterproof shell section.

It would still be unusual for it to leak so easily, unless you were wearing a backpack?

No backpack on me,i was carrying my gym bag in my hand and it wasnt really raining heavily at all at that stage,i know its not in the waterproof section but if the jacket is shown as waterproof then i would have expected it to be able to hold up to a shower,i was never expecting it to withstand a storm.

sunnysoutheast

copacetic wrote: »

It's a snowsports jacket, so is waterproof in that sitting/falling in snow etc is fine, but it's not ideal for any length of time in the rain.

I know its great to be smart in hindsight but you'll see from the site it's not included in the waterproof shell section.

It would still be unusual for it to leak so easily, unless you were wearing a backpack?

Well it's not in the "waterproof shells" tab but the description clearly says that the "shell is waterproof" so that is a semantic issue. The OP is entitled to expect that a month-old €250 jacket should keep a shower of rain out, otherwise what is it for?

SSE

copacetic

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Well it's not in the "waterproof shells" tab but the description clearly says that the "shell is waterproof" so that is a semantic issue. The OP is entitled to expect that a month-old €250 jacket should keep a shower of rain out, otherwise what is it for?

SSE

It's not a semantic issue, all the actual waterproof jackets are seam sealed. This one isn't, it's a snow sports jackets, thats what it is for. Imo it's not a suitable jacket for Ireland. Although I wouldn't expect it to leak so easily even though the seams aren't sealed.

The OP definitely had poor service from the great outdoors and it seems like a poor quality jacket, but expecting a jacket which doesn't have sealed seams to be waterproof at the seams is just wrong. It's impossible.

Frank Bullitt

copacetic wrote: »

It's not a semantic issue, all the actual waterproof jackets are seam sealed. This one isn't, it's a snow sports jackets, thats what it is for. Imo it's not a suitable jacket for Ireland. Although I wouldn't expect it to leak so easily even though the seams aren't sealed.

The OP definitely had poor service from the great outdoors and it seems like a poor quality jacket, but expecting a jacket which doesn't have sealed seams to be waterproof at the seams is just wrong. It's impossible.

Well as i said i wasnt expecting it to hold up to heavy down pours,that was never the case,but when i was out in it the rain was not very heavy at all,and im more annoyed with the "its your fault for not asking" thing,that comes across to me as a bit of a con job.

copacetic

Gintonious wrote: »

Well as i said i wasnt expecting it to hold up to heavy down pours,that was never the case,but when i was out in it the rain was not very heavy at all,and im more annoyed with the "its your fault for not asking" thing,that comes across to me as a bit of a con job.

I agree absolutely, but I think your best bet now is to either go back in to great outdoors and ask to speak to manager. Explain that you aren't expecting it to be fully waterproof but the seams leaked in a light shower. Hopefully they will agree to send it back to be checked out. If not, contact north face directly.

It sounds to me like the stitching could be faulty on the seams if they leaked so easily. Even though they aren't sealed, if the fabric is overlapped and stitched correctly it should take driven rain or water pressed in by a pack to leak through. Say this to them.

If the worst comes to the worst, you can seal the seams yourself, with something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001GYV620?ie=UTF8&tag=shopwiki-uk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738

Frank Bullitt

copacetic wrote: »

I agree absolutely, but I think your best bet now is to either go back in to great outdoors and ask to speak to manager. Explain that you aren't expecting it to be fully waterproof but the seams leaked in a light shower. Hopefully they will agree to send it back to be checked out. If not, contact north face directly.

It sounds to me like the stitching could be faulty on the seams if they leaked so easily. Even though they aren't sealed, if the fabric is overlapped and stitched correctly it should take driven rain or water pressed in by a pack to leak through. Say this to them.

If the worst comes to the worst, you can seal the seams yourself, with something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001GYV620?ie=UTF8&tag=shopwiki-uk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738

They did say that to me about some sort of sealant, to be honest i would probably prefer that over all the hassle, but i would always seem a little short changed that i got a jacket that needed something else done to it, and again the "its your own fault" tag with the argument isnt sitting well with me.

Nonoperational

Tough one. It's a snow jacket not a rain jacket. As ws said you could easily seal it yourself. But you may well not get any satisfaction from shop on this one.

Frank Bullitt

I think the best thing to do is email north face to find out for sure what the jacket can withstand.

My dad was onto consumer affairs and they have said that

1. if it says its waterproof on the North face site then it should be waterproof

2. that what the assistant said about I should have asked if the jacket is waterproof or not is rubbish and its the shop who should tell you.

monkeypants

Gintonious wrote: »

that what the assistant said about I should have asked if the jacket is waterproof or not is rubbish and its the shop who should tell you.

Absolutely. That'd mean the next time I was in Clarks I'd have to ask, "Are these okay to walk in?" If I don't and the shoes fall apart, then it'd be my problem? Rubbish.

Frank Bullitt

monkeypants wrote: »

Absolutely. That'd mean the next time I was in Clarks I'd have to ask, "Are these okay to walk in?" If I don't and the shoes fall apart, then it'd be my problem? Rubbish.

Yeah its a bit of a **** thing to say,surely a shop cant have that as its policy?