Setter training - the basics

Wolfhillbilly

Looking for opinion on this from trainers with more experience than myself!!
Due to accident not design, nealry all the setters I have trained in the ast have been born in the winterwhich means that at around three to four months, when I have been starting the basics - dropping, staying, comming to whistle etc - it has been coming into the lihgt evenings and decent weather and I have been able to get out basically every day with the dog.
This time round I have two pups that are now six months. I started outting them through the drop etc at about 3-4 months and the basics are just about there now. However I would have liked to have been further on with them but due to a combination of work and weather I have not been able to out in the work that I would have liked. Today for example, I rushed home from work at lunch, took them out for a run, took them one at a time to do a bit of basic stuff, but it was freezing, it was raining, there was ice on the ground. The pups were looking at me as if I was nuts. They weren't enjoying it, and neither was I. The long-winded question is this - is there an age when the 'basics' have to be instilled by. All books will tell you to do no more than 15 minutes a day but do it every day. That just isn't possible in this weather. Anyone taught older dogs new tricks?
I like to have dogs dropping to the whistle, coming to the whistle before even thinking about introducing them to birds.

irish setter

in my opinion you have them at the perfect age at the right time of year. i don,t think its needed to train the basics every day, two or three times a week should do. it can be done while walking on the lead in the evening if needed. i would only use voice commands and as the evenings get longer you can tighten up a bit more and start dropping off lead and at greater distance. i wouldn,t introduce the whistle untill the voice is reliable. make sure you use hand signals with voice and have him dropping to hand alone also. introducing the whistle should only take a day or two and is simply done by droping him by voice followed straight away by the whistle. after a few goes only the whistle will be needed, but always use hand signals aswell. the same system can later be used in getting them to drop to the flush and shot. you will have all summer long to get this right so don't over do it and bore the pups. but the real reason i think there at the right age is they will be at a perfect age come autumn and winter for training on wild birds. if you have access to wild birds don't be lured into using planted birds in early bird work. they have their uses but only when no other option is available.

Wolfhillbilly

Thanks IS. That's good to hear. Every time of year has its pluses I suppose. My usual routine is that I walk them, put one in the car, do a bit of work with the other and then swap them around.
I don't have access to wild birds nearby my house. There is a hill with a few snipe on it which I use but there are far less than about 10 years ago so I'll have to use planted ones.
They'll be about 15 months by next Autumn - I was thinking about introducing them to birds at around 10 months, using planted pigeons during the early summer.

EPointer=Birdss

No a lover of pigeons if you were planting them as you will never be hunting them. It's game you'll be after...
Would you not buy a few pheasants & use them?

Double Barrel

WH,

Plus 1 on the good information posted above.
"in my opinion you have them at the perfect age at the right time of year. " ++ They are like sponges at this age.
I raise Quail (Common Quail, Coturnix coturnix) and Hungarian partridge for training purposes. They are easy to raise, hardy, dogs like them and they make good table fare.
I use pigeons, pheasants and ducks also but quail and partridge are the mainstay.

Good luck

EPointer=Birdss

Double Barrel wrote: »

WH,

Plus 1 on the good information posted above.
"in my opinion you have them at the perfect age at the right time of year. " ++ They are like sponges at this age.
I raise Quail (Common Quail, Coturnix coturnix) and Hungarian partridge for training purposes. They are easy to raise, hardy, dogs like them and they make good table fare.
I use pigeons, pheasants and ducks also but quail and partridge are the mainstay.

Good luck

Would love to see your set up DB. Any pics of runs etc Be handy to have a few over the summer for keeping the dogs interested...

irish setter

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

No a lover of pigeons if you were planting them as you will never be hunting them. It's game you'll be after...
Would you not buy a few pheasants & use them?

it don't really matter what bird you use to plant it's only a training exercise. the trick is to use them as less as possible and only use them if you have to. once the pup gets the message stop and don't go back.
WH do you use a launcher?

Wolfhillbilly

irish setter wrote: »

it don't really matter what bird you use to plant it's only a training exercise. the trick is to use them as less as possible and only use them if you have to. once the pup gets the message stop and don't go back.
WH do you use a launcher?

I have a couple of launchers and I've used them occasionally in the past once the pups have got used to birds getting up from cover etc. I have also used quail and dizzied pigeons, and pigeons with cardboard tied to its leg to bring it down after 100 yards.
I am in the middle of a city and don't have the space to keep pheasants. I have recenty bought some pigeons and have about four of them homing to a small loft in the back garden.
The reason I am going back to pigeons rather than the quali that I used with my last pup is that - as with pigeons with the cardboard attached - I tink they encourage the pup to chase as they are up and down very quickly. At least with the pigeons that home, they are up and away and the pups can be left to chase and to an extent get that out of their system a bit quicker.
As I mentoined before, the ground a fw years ago had a lot of snipe which was pefect for training, but now there are very few and so have to use planted birds of some description.