Specialist Mortgage Provider

BnA

Is Start the only SubPrime Lender left in the Irish market ?

I know Springboard and GEMoney also used to do similar but both have stopped accepting new business ?

Is there any chance either of these will start accepting new business again ?

Is there any chance of any new players coming into the market ?

Will Start stay in the market ? i.e. In 6 months time do you think they will be accepting new business.

Basically, if Start Mortgages say they won't take you on for 6 months, is there nothing at all you can do only sit and wait ?

Thanks in Advance

chris85

BnA wrote: »

Is Start the only SubPrime Lender left in the Irish market ?

I know Springboard and GEMoney also used to do similar but both have stopped accepting new business ?

Is there any chance either of these will start accepting new business again ?

Is there any chance of any new players coming into the market ?

Will Start stay in the market ? i.e. In 6 months time do you think they will be accepting new business.

Basically, if Start Mortgages say they won't take you on for 6 months, is there nothing at all you can do only sit and wait ?

Thanks in Advance

Are you looking for a subprime loan? I certainly hope not and hope people have learnt from the bad experiences.

tHE vAGGABOND

I read somewhere that Start instigate more repossession orders than all other institutions combined at the moment. If that is true, it speaks for itself.

If sum-prime is your only option, I'm afraid IMHO you would be insane to do anything other than keeping saving till you build up a large deposit [and/or sort out whats stopping conventional banks from lending to you].

chris85

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I read somewhere that Start instigate more repossession orders than all other institutions combined at the moment. If that is true, it speaks for itself.

If sum-prime is your only option, I'm afraid IMHO you would be insane to do anything other than keeping saving till you build up a large deposit [and/or sort out whats stopping conventional banks from lending to you].

+1

If you can only do a sub prime loan then you simply cant afford it.

Also Start definitely have far more repossions than anyone else. Everytime i read in the papers about repossession orders. They are taking houses everywhere.

stepbar

Start wrote:

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT WARNINGS
YOUR HOME IS AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT KEEEP UP PAYMENTS ON A MORTGAGE OR OTHER LOAN SECURED ON IT.
THE PAYMENT RATES ON A HOUSING LOAN MAY BE ADJUSTED BY THE LENDER FROM TIME TO TIME.
Security and insurances required. The maximum percentage of the value of the property which will normally be advanced is 75% and is subject to credit references. Loan amounts are subject to monthly repayments not exceeding 40% to 45% of the borrower(s) disposable income. A typical variable rate mortgage of €100,000 over 20 years costs €757.39 per month (APR 6.96%). The effect of a 1% increase in interest rates for such a mortgage will increase the monthly repayment to €817.87 (APR 7.80%), an increase of €60.47 per month.

That's nice of them.

BnA

Please read my Origional post and don't let this thread go off on a tangent.

I asked a few simple questions about Start Mortgages as I though some people in here who worked in the banking sector might be able to answer them.

I would genuinely appreciate anyone who could answer them for me.

chris85

BnA wrote: »

Please read my Origional post and don't let this thread go off on a tangent.

I asked a few simple questions about Start Mortgages as I though some people in here who worked in the banking sector might be able to answer them.

I would genuinely appreciate anyone who could answer them for me.

the first post basically asked if you will get a subprime loan in 6 months as they wont take on new business now... sorry if we went on a tangent discussing how bad an idea subprime lending is to someone who wants a subprime loan by the sounds of it.

start wont last long much longer. they are at damage limitation at moment and thus not taking on business and pushing for repossessions. they will spend years trying to get there money back.

stepbar

BnA wrote: »

1. Is Start the only SubPrime Lender left in the Irish market ?

Yes - http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2009/oct/11/plunge-in-profits-for-the-last-of-irelands-subprim/

2. I know Springboard and GEMoney also used to do similar but both have stopped accepting new business ?

As above.

3. Is there any chance either of these will start accepting new business again ?

What do you think? Seriously.....

4. Is there any chance of any new players coming into the market ?

Mystic Meg yabba yabba yabba. I'll hazard a guess - NO

5. Will Start stay in the market ? i.e. In 6 months time do you think they will be accepting new business.

I think Smart are the only ones who could answer that

6. Basically, if Start Mortgages say they won't take you on for 6 months, is there nothing at all you can do only sit and wait ?

Yes

Thanks in Advance

.

BnA

Look Chris. I am asking very nicely

I just want someone who has a knowledge of the business to answer the questions if they can.

Please stop trying to drag the thread off on a tangent.

If you don't know the answer, please just ignore the thread.

BnA

Thanks Stepbar

Toots

BnA, a bit of discussion is to be expected on threads. If you have a problem with a post, please use the Report Post button, and a mod will take a look.

Thanks.

chris85

BnA wrote: »

Look Chris. I am asking very nicely

I just want someone who has a knowledge of the business to answer the questions if they can.

Please stop trying to drag the thread off on a tangent.

If you don't know the answer, please just ignore the thread.

Start will not make any impact in lending in the future. No other subprime lender will come into the market as the regulations are tighter on subprime lending... I would say the regulator will be very strict in future on lending percentages.

Basically no subpriming lending availble to you. all questions answered and a bit of discussion is expected as its a discussioin board.

Andymfinancial

its true that start have repossessed more than most lenders. However it is a specialist product and should only be taken on by clients who fully understand the product. Having said that their rates recently were not too exteme and they have helped many people get on the ladder with no problems. Bank of Scotland will do a self certification mortgage where you do not have to show proof of income, just need bank statements

BnA

Toots* wrote: »

BnA, a bit of discussion is to be expected on threads. If you have a problem with a post, please use the Report Post button, and a mod will take a look.

Thanks.

Fair enough Toots.

I was just afraid that with a discussion on Sub Prime lenders, my origional queries would get ignored / lost.

However, now that Stepbar answered my queries, I don't mind at all.

Unfortunately, in my situation, I am being forced to look at these options. I made a mistake recently. It was an oversight on my part where I left a loan unpaid. It was a mistake by me as opposed to not having the money. Completely my own fault of course. As soon as I saw it, I paid off the loan but the damage to my history was done.

Anyway, obviously, this is completely screwing me up in getting a mortgage.

I am not looking for a very large mortgage. (around €150k) My loan to value ratio is very low (house is worth about €400k. €350 being very pesimistic.

I have no problem paying back a loan.

Myself and my wife have a Nett monthly income of around €5k. While I do work for myself, my wifes job (which accounts for about 60% of our declared income) is 200% rock solid (She's a teacher) It is just the bad history that I had that is screwing us up.

I am fully aware that companies like start take Zero sheet when it comes to missing payments, but I have no problem with that. I will not be missing any payments.

I am also well aware of the premium they charge. But, the way I look at it, I would lose that in Rent anyway in the next few years. And obviously, as soon as I can get a mortgage form another lender, I will of course move.

Anyway. It looks now like they won't consider me for a mortgage untill I have 12 months clear history (Apply in August to draw down in Sept/Oct). So I have to look at other options. I need about €70k as the family situation means I HAVE to move in by Summer.

chris85

BnA wrote: »

Fair enough Toots.

I was just afraid that with a discussion on Sub Prime lenders, my origional queries would get ignored / lost.

However, now that Stepbar answered my queries, I don't mind at all.

Unfortunately, in my situation, I am being forced to look at these options. I made a mistake recently. It was an oversight on my part where I left a loan unpaid. It was a mistake by me as opposed to not having the money. Completely my own fault of course. As soon as I saw it, I paid off the loan but the damage to my history was done.

Anyway, obviously, this is completely screwing me up in getting a mortgage.

I am not looking for a very large mortgage. (around €150k) My loan to value ratio is very low (house is worth about €400k. €350 being very pesimistic.

I have no problem paying back a loan.

Myself and my wife have a Nett monthly income of around €5k. While I do work for myself, my wifes job (which accounts for about 60% of our declared income) is 200% rock solid (She's a teacher) It is just the bad history that I had that is screwing us up.

I am fully aware that companies like start take Zero sheet when it comes to missing payments, but I have no problem with that. I will not be missing any payments.

I am also well aware of the premium they charge. But, the way I look at it, I would lose that in Rent anyway in the next few years. And obviously, as soon as I can get a mortgage form another lender, I will of course move.

Anyway. It looks now like they won't consider me for a mortgage untill I have 12 months clear history (Apply in August to draw down in Sept/Oct). So I have to look at other options. I need about €70k as the family situation means I HAVE to move in by Summer.

Have you looked at AIB and BOI or other mainstream lenders for a mortgage? I presume you have tried them and they have refused your application? the loan you missed will show up as cleared on ICB record so might not be so bad at this stage if the loan is paid in full now.

Toots

As Chris85 said, have you tried BOI, AIB or EBS? You never know, they might be able to do something for you. And their rates would be a hell of a lot cheaper than Start and the like.

BnA

chris85 wrote: »

Have you looked at AIB and BOI or other mainstream lenders for a mortgage? I presume you have tried them and they have refused your application? the loan you missed will show up as cleared on ICB record so might not be so bad at this stage if the loan is paid in full now.

Yes. I tried very hard with Bank of Ireland. In fact, I only found out that the loan was actually in arreers when I went to them looking for the mortgage. They done the ICB report of course and came back and said... do you realise you have a loan (not with BOI) 6 months in arreers....? I didn't know because I had moved address and letters were going to my old address. As soon as I found out, I cleared the loan of course (It was only about €3k) but the damage was done. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses, it was completely my own fault. 100%. But is was just a stupid mistake on my part as opposed to not having the funds to pay it.

Anyway I tried my best with BOI as they were my best hope. I am a partner in a Limited company and we have been with them for the last 5 years and have a good enough relationship with them. The manager that I deal with has seen the business grow and knows I am a good customer. He has given us business loans and overdrafts in the past no problem. In fact he had extended our overdraft only a few months before.

I do believe he understood the situation and knew (especially with my wifes job and the loan to value ratio) that we were a safe bet. Unfortunately, local managers have zero say in this kind of thing any more. They can put forward a bit of a reccomendation which may be taken into account but this kind of decision making is all centralised now and with the 6 months arreers, there was no way I was getting it.

I explored every option with him.

Getting someone else to Gaurntee the loan with me. (no good)
Putting it in my wifes name only. (Mortgage on family home must be in both names)
Getting a second house in my wifes name (her parents) and getting the loan on that. (I can't remember what was wrong with that but no was the answer).

So I'm left looking at sub prime.

Now that that option is gone for a few monthe at least, I'm not sure what my next move will be. I have a few ideas I am thinking of but I need to think them through before I go any further.

chris85

BnA wrote: »

Yes. I tried very hard with Bank of Ireland. In fact, I only found out that the loan was actually in arreers when I went to them looking for the mortgage. They done the ICB report of course came back and said... do you realise you have a loan (not with BOI) 6 months in arreers....? I didn't know because I had moved address and letters were going to my old address. As soon as I found out cleared the loan of course (If was only about €3k) but teh damage was done. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses, it was completely my own fault. 100%. But is was just a stupid mistake on my part as opposed to not having the funds to pay it.

The damage may not be done. As soon as you cleared the loan in full the loan should now be noted as cleared on the ICB instead of in arrears. Contact your bank and ask them to update this with ICB. Then reapply for mortgage. Try AIB and EBS as well. no harm

BnB

Hi I'm the OP here. I said I'd dig up this old thread instead of starting a new one.

Just to update my situation. I have secured the money to finish the house through Credit Union Loans. Work is nearly finished and we'll be moving in in a few weeks with everyone paid. So, at least the pressure is off.

We have 3 X 10 year Credit Union Loans which is covering the cost of building. I am paying these off and having no problem doing so. Obviously, I would like to replace these loans with a Mortgage.

The biggest problem I have is still the loan that went 7 months into arreers last October. The only company that have even considered us for a mortgage is Start (Although I haven't tried for a few months). They have told me to re-apply in August and if everything is in order, they will consider it. Obviously, I would rather not go with them.

So a few questions..

1) If I am surviving OK paying back the CU loans, should I just stick with that rather than moving to Start

2) Is there anyone else who might consider me do you think ?

Summary of finances....:
Joint Nett Income € 5.5k p/m
House value € 350 k
Loan Required € 180 k

jimoc

Are you paying off the 3 CU loans at the same time or will you be paying for 30 years, its a little unclear there.
If its the first case, and you are able to cover the repayments then it would be in your own best interest to leave them as they are, and in 10 years you are free and clear.
You also have the advantage that with the CU if you do fall on hard times they are much more accommodating then a sub-prime mortgage lender as regards restructuring payments.
Could I also hazard a guess that you didn't have to put the house up as security on the credit union loan?
If thats the case then in the really unlikely event of you not being able to pay anything at all, then at least they cant come and repossess your house.

BnB

Thanks Jim

Yes, we are paying off all 3 loans at the same time, and none of them are not secured against the house.

I would have a few reasons, for wanting to switch to a Mortgage.

1) It would be cheaper. Going on a 10 year fixed rate from the EBS website, We'd save about € 300 a month over the 10 years, and still pay them off in the same time. A Mortgage would also give me the possibility to stretch it out over 15 years which would allow my wife to take a career break for a few years which is something we would possibly like to do.

2) One of the CU loans is not in my name. It is with a close family member who is perfectly ok with it, but obviously I would be more comfortable having it in my own name.

3) Getting a Mortgage might give us the chance to get an extra € 20k to € 30k which would allow us to finish a few things that we are putting off for now. (eg. Tarmac outside)

But as you said, there is a lot to be said for sticking with the CU too. Easier to deal with,

As I said, I am not under pressure now like I was a few months ago. I can stand back now and make a more informed decision.

chris85

jimoc wrote: »

Are you paying off the 3 CU loans at the same time or will you be paying for 30 years, its a little unclear there.
If its the first case, and you are able to cover the repayments then it would be in your own best interest to leave them as they are, and in 10 years you are free and clear.
You also have the advantage that with the CU if you do fall on hard times they are much more accommodating then a sub-prime mortgage lender as regards restructuring payments.
Could I also hazard a guess that you didn't have to put the house up as security on the credit union loan?
If thats the case then in the really unlikely event of you not being able to pay anything at all, then at least they cant come and repossess your house.

The credit unions are good but be carefull. back a few years ago the only people seeking committal orders (throwing people in jail) were the credit unions. They are becoming a lot better at recovery of debts. They have good rates and are very helpful but will not hesitate to go for judgments and judgment mortgages.

They cant come for house which is true but a judgment being placed against the house isnt great either.

Just dont underestimate how far the CU's will go to get their money as they have proven in the past they will go all the way.

jimoc

chris85 wrote: »

The credit unions are good but be carefull. back a few years ago the only people seeking committal orders (throwing people in jail) were the credit unions. They are becoming a lot better at recovery of debts. They have good rates and are very helpful but will not hesitate to go for judgments and judgment mortgages.

They cant come for house which is true but a judgment being placed against the house isnt great either.

Just dont underestimate how far the CU's will go to get their money as they have proven in the past they will go all the way.

I can't find a link to the story just at the moment, but wasn't there a case a few months ago where a CU was attempting to get a woman jailed for non payment and the attempt was thrown out as being and unconstitutional breach of her civil liberties or something like that?

BnB

Thanks for all replies.

My reasons for not being mad about the idea of going with Start doesn't have much to do with what they are like in the event of not being able to pay. Things would have to go very very very wrong for us not to be able to pay.

The two main reasons I would be concerned about going with Start would be

1) Will they turn out more expensive than the Credit Union. For example, I think there is a % fee to be paid straight away on the draw down of the mortgage. When I go to get out of the mortgage in a few years, will I find that it has been front loaded with Interest.

2) Obviously, if I was to go with Start, I would be hoping to move to a Main Stream lender as soon as possible. Even if my ICB Record was cleared, would the fact that I am transferring a mortgage from Start set alarm bells ringing in the main stream lender I am applying to ?

Also, in general, to put it simply, I don't trust them. 6 months ago, I was desperate and I would have taken money from anywhere. Now, with the house almost built and the money secured to finish it, I am not so desperate.

To clarify a bit further what my question is (now that it is clearer in my own head..!!!)....

We will eventually get a mortgage from a Main Stream lender to pay off the CU loans. It might be in 6 months, 12 months, 2 years, 5 years.... I don't know. But we will eventually get one.

My questions is, in the meantime, should I consider a start mortgage, or would I be better off to just keep paying off the CU loans.