Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
50 Reasons to watch iMPACT over RAW (and analysis)
-
11-01-2010 5:29pm#1I don't know if you read the Torch, or have seen this article floating around the internet. Written by Torch Specialist, Curtis Shanks, he lists out reasons why he prefers iMPACT to RAW. I read it and decided to take time out and respond to every point.
Since I'm not a fan of RAW, I'm not gonna try justify their decisions, because frankly I disagree with a lot of them and refuse to stick up for them. But instead I'll give my opinion on what this lad says.
"50 Reasons to watch iMPACT over RAW" by Curtis Shanks
The wrestling world is alive, as there is an excitement that hasn't been seen for years. For the first time in almost a decade, there were two different companies gunning for glory and our television viewing time Monday night.
In the '90s it may have seemed like a choice between sirloin and rib-eye, while now it's a choice between asparagus and cauliflower. But even if TNA falters, they showed that competition is good for the business as Raw was inclined to produce more than the lackluster show we've become accustomed to.
With the invention of the DVR, it is no longer a two-option choice for a Monday Night War. Now the option is there to watch both shows, with the only debate being which one you'll see live. A new Monday night battle might see less channel-changing and more hype and Internet rumors to get people to tune in and choose not one, but both shows. I'll state right now, Impact will be my choice each Monday night if I have to pick one.
This isn't a WWE vs. TNA debate, but a Raw vs. Impact choice. A Monday night choice, not an overall product choice. While I do enjoy Impact more than the general consensus of the Internet community, I am a realist and can recognize their flaws. There are plenty of times when I love Raw and hate Impact, but here are fifty reasons why I'll still choose Impact in future battles.
(1) Impact is not TV-PG. The TV-PG approach may benefit WWE financially and hook some young viewers, but I personally am an adult and wish to be treated like one.
(2) The prominence of the women's division. Most of the Knockouts are treated as more than eye candy, as they're used in competitive matches and intriguing storylines in the same fashion as the males.
(3) The non-household names the company is building around. I'm extremely excited to see how much guys like Styles, Daniels, Wolfe, Morgan, Hernandez, Dinero, and Joe develop in the coming years.
(4) The Knockouts take bumps. Hamada moonsaulting through tables, hardcore matches, Saeed going through the stage...you don't see this stuff from the females on Raw.
(5) The crowd chants. The crowd is more lively on Impact, and the dueling chants for two different competitors is just awesome to listen to.
(6) The dual entrance tunnel. I love the logic of separating two feuding wrestlers and having them come out through separate entrances.
(7) There's no invisible camera. In the battle for logic, this is why Impact will always edge out Raw and instill more realism.
(8) Interviewers with personalities. JB, Lauren, Val, and Hemme all get personalities and even stand up for themselves. You won't see Josh Matthews getting his own storyline on Raw.
(9) Blood is allowed. Blading should be rare, and is never actually needed. But in the right situation, it can be great imagery and really sell an angle.
(10) Everybody gets mic time. Not everyone is as great as Desmond Wolfe, but each guy gets a chance. I have a hard time even remembering what Evan Bourne or Primo sound like.
(11) They acknowledge departures. The one that comes to mind is Christian Cage. They explained Lauren's departure too, and now that is also likely with Lashley. People just disappear from Raw with no mention.
(12) The X Division. Sure it's not what it could be or what it once was, but they still do moves that you have a snowball's chance in hell of seeing on Raw. WWE doesn't let their guys do some of those spots, plain and simple.
(13) They follow through on storyline firings. Kaz and Daniels are the perfect example of this for Impact. How many times has Jericho been banished from Raw, only to return the next week.
(14) They recognize other companies. No, I'm not talking about WWE, WCW, or ECW. I love the recognition of promotions in Mexico and Japan. WWE treats the wrestling world like they are the only promotion in existence.
(15) A.J. Styles. With all the monikers in wrestling (War Machine, The Animal), Styles "Phenomenal" tag is the only one that is actually true. He doesn't rely solely on his athletic moves, but when he busts them out they are simply phenomenal.
(16) Scott Steiner is hilarious. Santino used to reign here, but is now forcing his comedy. Steiner is the funniest unintentional comedy character out there.
(17) Jeff Hardy. Whether or not TNA blows this signing is yet to be seen, but the potential with Hardy on the TNA roster is hard to calculate. The sky is the limit.
(18) There's a more human nature with the wrestlers. Past Rough Cuts segments and the Before the Bell stuff we saw last week makes their characters seem less over-the-top and more human.
(19) The tag team division. With team like Beer Money, The Brits, 3D, The Guns and the Young Bucks, Impact is far and away the best here.
(20) The boss is easier to relate to. Dixie Carter seems a million times more human and sincere than Vince McMahon. Can you imagine Vince posting optimistic comments on a social networking site?
(21) They appease the Internet fans. Yes, I know this does nothing but hurt the overall product. But I am a smart fan, and I still think it's a bit cool when they throw out an insider reference on TV.
(22) Match innovation. Although we've only seen a few in Impact's history, the Ultimate X is the most creative concept out there. Most gimmick matches just add violence and brutality, but TNA actually has one that adds innovation and athletic showmanship.
(23) Submission holds. WIth Wolfe and Angle taking pages from the MMA and European skill sets, there are matches on Impact that are a sheer joy to watch.
(24) The announcers. I like the banter between the duo of Tenay and Tazz. Overall, they are leaps and bounds ahead of the Lawler/Cole combo on Raw.
(25) Battle Royal rules. In TNA, the final two left have a standard match to determine a winner. I hate watching the final two participants try nothing more than hoisting each other over a top rope on Raw.
(26) The Knockouts don't dress up every week. It's happened on a few rare instances on Impact, but it's a routine occurrence on Raw.
(27) There are more swerves. Sometimes there can be too many, but I hate the predictability of Raw. I may roll my eyes at something on Impact, but at least I didn't see it coming.
(28) The room for growth. Raw may never lose it's number one spot, but Impact will have more growth, evolution and development in the foreseeable future.
(29) Wrestlers joining commentary are not a surprise. On Raw, Lawler and Cole sell shock when they are joined at the desk, despite an empty chair and headset set up right beside them. I hate that.
(30) The crane camera shot above the ring. When a wrestler goes up to the top rope and we get the brid's-eye view shot, it's cool to see the wrestling craft from a different angle.
(31) Non-TNA talents are welcome. I loved the X Cup stuff on Impact, because it gave fans a chance to see what some foreign promotions have to offer.
(32) The unobstructed cage match view. TNA has holes cut into the side of their cages to allow a camera to film inside the cage without actually interfering. Great concept.
(33) All the new faces. I'm not excited about some, but it's cool watching Impact wondering who's going to show up next.
(34) Bleeps. They've been overused in the past, but I like that they are there. In that type of environment, it's hard to believe not one person would swear in two hours.
(35) Velvet Sky. Enough said.
(36) The Beautiful People ring entrance. Enough said.
(37) World title contenders. On Raw it's Cena and...nobody. On Impact it's Daniels, Joe, Wolfe, and Angle. Even Lashley has a title shot stored up.
(38) The embarrassment factor. If my family or non-wrestling friends walked in on me watching TV on Monday night, I would be less embarrassed about Impact on my screen than Raw.
(39) Shades of gray booking. Some are fans of the old-school heel or face only concept, but I like a few select storylines where there is no clear line and I am allowed to decide who to cheer or boo.
(40) Finishing moves. The main guys on Raw have the Attitude Adjustment, Pedigree, RKO, and the Big Show Punch. Impact has the Styles Clash, Tower of London, Muscle Buster, and Angel's Wings.
(41) Less green wrestlers. I know Rob Terry and Lacey aren't great in the ring, but WWE has always had more guys in there that can only do the basic moves.
(42) Cody Deaner. Just the fact that I no longer have to worry about seeing him on my TV when I watch Impact is enjoyable.
(43) I don't use the mute button. I'm talking specifically about the muting of Jillian Hall on Raw. That's not heel heat, but change the channel heat.
(44) No guest hosts. Some on Raw have been great, but others have been abysmal. I still prefer one or two authority figures making matches and decisions on a weekly basis.
(45) The refs get authority. This system is still flawed and can make for lazy booking, but at least their trying. It's nice to see refs with personalities and actual names on Impact.
(46) IWGP. 3D dropped their tag belts, but I like that TNA can acknowledge their guys going to other companies and winning titles.
(47) Eric Bischoff. I always loved Bischoff in the GM role on Raw, and he could be great as an on-air authority figure. Nobody plays heel GM like Bischoff.
(48) One word - fans. I am a fan, not a member of a "Universe."
(49) More upset wins. Raw's matches are much easier to predict than Impact's. Just look at Dinero vs. Wolfe from this past Impact.
(50) TNA actually uses unheard of terms like "wrestling" or "wrestler."
Torch specialist Curtis Shanks covers TNA Impact weekly "Under the Microscope." Feedback is welcome! Send comments to curtisshanks.torch@gmail.
==================================================
==================================================
Here's my review point for point.
(1) I enjoy blood and swearing too. I don't appreciate unprotected head shots and selective bleeping of swear words though. I love the 'tna' of The Beautiful People, but they're handled in a very PG-way (i.e. they're always covered up) - how about some Bra & Panties matches? I will say that the camerawork for TBP's entrance is sublime. It should be a reason to check out TNA.
(2) Agreed, although I feel the women have too much time on TV/PPV - usually having two matches/fueds, and maybe 3, it's just too much female action for my liking. It's not like they can wrestle better than the average male wrestler or show much 'tna'. The women are held in a competitive light, which is great, but there's far more 'Lacey von Erich' than 'Alyssa Flash' in the KO Division.
(3) I'm so happy to see Styles on top, but how he's been treated (given the 'Jeff Hardy' 1st title reign botch), Daniels' constant losing streak/non-threatening position, former champion and former good wrestler Joe being booked/treated as pretty poor. Matt Morgan's push seen in mid-late 2009 with Angle has evaporated very quickly, as has Hernandez's push. I am however really happy with the treatment of Wolfe and the air-time of The Pope.
(4) It's cool to see KOs take bumps - that is if the camera catches it. I don't like how 'un-special' female bumps are in TNA - Daffney's obligatory bump in an Abyss match is great, but it's overused and undersold by TNA, making it a giant waste - a KO taking a big bump like that is VERY, VERY significant - but TNA don't view it as such. I'd also worry that with the 'lingerie specialists' like Torrie Wilson needing back surgery that it isn't a bad idea that women take such risky bumps.
(5) Crowd chants are great, agreed. As a smark, I enjoy smark chants too. Although only having 1,400 non-paying fans in a small arena doesn't make TNA look great. They should be doing at least 2,000-2,500 paying.
(6) I also like the dual entrance tunnel but it's not a 'reason' to watch TNA. It really strays from Russo's 'shades of grey' booking, with a clear heel/face divide.
(7) I enjoy WWE's attempt at the invisible camera. I don't quite kayfabe understand why all this business should go down in front of a camera - or an invisible one for that matter. I hate seeing the hard camera on TV, I think it's bush-league camerawork. I'd imagine that part of suspension of disbelief is that wrestlers 'don't realise' the camera is there.
(8) I enjoy that the backstage interviewers in TNA are personalities.
(9) Blood is great (in moderation)
(10) "Everybody gets mic time" Maybe too much - too many backstage segments with the same people, instead of (i'd rather) everyone gets one interview segment. I think they fit in too many interviews instead of 'savouring' less interviews. Do I really need to see what Angle is thinking 9 times throughout the programme? (more relevant during the MEM angle)
(11) I like the way they acknowledge departures - even if it is mixing kayfabe and reality (see TBP's entrance during No Surrender 2009, where they explain Angelina Love's exit) (if you wanna know more; Tenay breaks kayfabe by explaining the truth behind Angelina Love's absence, i.e. her work permit has expired and so she's parted ways with TNA for now. Then Tenay goes back into kayfabe by saying that Madison Rayne has "chosen a great time" to patch things up with Velvet Sky, and so now they're tagging together.)
(12) The X-Division is great, even if it's treated like spot-monkey dirt by TNA. They're very low on the totem pole, and have been reduced to multi-man gimmick matches at the start of most PPVs. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it does make their division and title kinda useless. More singles X-D matches are needed.
(13) Following through on firings is great and is definitely a step above WWE's lies.
(14) Recognising other companies is fantastic. I do think it's somewhat odd (Maybe i'm too used to WWE programming) that they accept WWE's lineage when talking about their own show.
(15) Styles is great. Just not that fantastic on the mic. He makes a boring move like a flying forearm or a dropkick look like a million bucks.
(16) Steiner is far funnier (due to it being unintentional) than anything Santino's done recently. I love Scott Steiner, especially his explicit 'wooing' of Lauren.
(17) Having Hardy is a huge asset to TNA. But TNA's track record with other WWE names -and Jeff Hardy- doesn't bode well. I have no faith in TNA to do a good job with the potential jail-bird. I hope I'm wrong and TNA do something huge with him....so why start something with mid-card nobody Homicide?
(18) Rough cuts completely smash kayfabe but are enjoyable. They shouldn't be on TV (which is canon) but on a DVD. Heels should still act heels, and faces faces. Bloody kayfabe-breaking scenes that smack of Russo.
(19) Yes, TNA's tag division is much stronger than WWE's, and it's not spread over three shows. Whenever the nostalgia wears off, i'll begrudge TNA bringing in the Nasties for a programme with Team 3D.
(20) I do like Dixie Carter, but I don't think she commands much respect. I do love how she really pushes for 'banding together' but this stuff again, shouldn't be seen on TV. It completely smashes kayfabe. That scene where she gives out to the TNA roster before iMPACT -although interesting- was horrendous and should never have been aired. Seeing the heels and faces getting admonished (even though most of the 40+ club were absent) made the show seem fake, and bush-league. You don't see this pep-talk in a legitimate sport (like half time during a football match) and you shouldn't see it here. It's like a making-of documentary of 24 before watching the related episode - you can't get into the show as much because you've just been told it's fake. I do like how she is more accessible and friendly, and more passionate-sounding than Vince. But having a president who knows nothing about the sport/tv show she's involved with is ludicrous.
(21) Appeasing the internet fans, swerving the what - 1% of TNA fans on the internet is just ludicrous and smacks of Russo. It didn't work ten years ago and swerving me - who'll watch the show anyway - does nothing but hurt the product. When the DVD comes out, what we're left with is a storyline with a shock ending that makes no sense - not a storyline that goes to completion. It's B.S.. Again, I enjoy smark-comments but booking the show to swerve/serve us - hardcore wrestling fans - in mind is ridiculous. Shouldn't you be concerned with putting on a good product for the 99% of fans who just tune in every week? Madness. If you want to appease us, bloody put on a good show that makes sense. I'll use Star Wars : Revenge of the Sith as an metaphor. Every star wars fan knew how it was going to end (by the start of Episode 4) but HOW it comes about is a different story. If it's played out well, and even if you are correct, it's still good watching. What i'm saying is that if a story is good and makes sense, it's much better than a shock that means nothing.
(22) Innovation. The Ultimate X is the only good gimmick TNA have 'invented'. Getting INTO the ring for a battle royal, then having a match (to which 2nd place gets a haircut), a fish-market brawl, electrified steel cage, Last rites....the list just goes on. How could you even bring this point up? TNA's gimmicks are different for the sake of it. Most of them are terrible and rival the Dungeon of Doom for sheer stupidity/overbooking. The red behemoth of the Steel Asylum is an eyesore that is impossible to follow/watch from the hard camera. But more on that later.
(23) The general level of wrestling in TNA is glorious. It's a shame we only get 4 minutes on TV to savour it, unless it's the main event, where you get 10 minutes. (I'd rescind the remark after seeing AJ/Angle on Jan 4th but that's in the minority)
(24) Oh, my God. If you can name any good call Tenay has ever made in TNA, I'd love to hear it. Taz obviously just shows up for work without preparation - if Tenay calls him he'll just respond with "whatever"...I'd invite you to re-listen to Jan 4th's match between Pope and McGuinness, where Taz labours the point "curtsy". He just keeps going. Is it funny? Funny for him, perhaps, but everyone listening knows that you don't give a damn about your commentary, haven't done any work, and aren't interested or focussed on the match. My God. I'll admit that Lawler and Cole are desperate together, which is a shame, since they did work much better 10 years ago, when both still cared about their work.
(25) I don't like Battle Royal rules. If you wanted to have people fighting legitimately over the win, then have a tournament. Having to explain the rules every time -and not well, mind you- you do the match means that it's needlessly complicated. Is it that bad just having a Battle Royal rules? Getting into the ring? Getting a haircut? C'mon.
(26) I agree the KOs are treated seriously. But I think there's more value in the likes of TBP using them as purely sex appeal and not having a rough time not-botching in the ring.
(27) Swerves "at least I didn't see it coming". Great. I hate the idea of swerves. Used sparingly they can be very effective. Used in the right context of a storyline, it's an unexpected plot development. 'Not being able to predict who wins' is over-rated. You don't know until after the bout if you were right - and had at least a 50% of guessing correctly in the first place. STORYLINES MAKING SENSE can't be over-emphasised. Something Russo's being doing a much better job in the main event at least over the last few months. But in general, it's the toilet for storylines in TNA (I submit to you Mick Foley & Abyss's storyline. Oh, he was just 'testing' Abyss? So that's why you've changed to heel, face, heel, face in the last 6 months. Oh great. You must admit that the constant heel-face changes of Mick Foley, one of the most recognisable names and brilliant wrestling minds in the industry is being completely squandered, as is the could-be-excellent mentor-protege storyline with Abyss.)
(28) WWE are trying to elevate new main eventers but I agree TNA have much more room for growth now, moreso than WWE at the moment. That's great!
(29) I do enjoy wrestlers joining in for commentary, although I think they should have some good quips/comments prepared. Some are just god-awful and only serve to highlight their deficient mic-skills.
(30) For ladder matches (i.e. when it's needed) WWE also have their 'wile e.coyote cam' ...but I enjoy the crane shot.
(31) Yep, missed the X-Cup this year (2009) but it's great to have non-TNA talent in TNA -- although they don't treat them like stars. It was depressing to go back and see Tanahashi, former NJPW champion get jobbed clean in 4 minutes to the Guns.
(32) The unobstructed cage match view (not counting the very-obstructed HARD CAMERA). If TNA had a bigger arena, like WWE do with Hell in a Cell, they also have unobstructed views with cameramen inside.
(33) New faces is great in TNA. They have a fantastic roster, although I don't approve of letting go of Petey Willams and Sonjay Dutt.
(34) TNA are inconsistent with their bleeps. Sometimes mic'd people are bleeped, sometimes not, same with wrestlers swearing while wrestling, and now the fans chanting a swear. It's inconsistent, and wish nothing was bleeped. (No wrestler should ever utter the f-bomb)
(35) Velvet Sky is amazing alright.
(36) TBP's entrance is amazing too and a definite highlight of iMPACT. TNA's cameramen are usually god-awful, missing spots and sometimes finishes, but the camerawork for this entrance is just amazing. Possibly the best entrance in all of wrestling today.
(37) More #1 contenders is great. I just wish they'd build them up more (see Daniels and his jobbing streak prior to main eventing the last two PPVs in 2009)
(38) Yes, RAW with Hornswoggle and it's terrible, juvenile humour annoys me to the point that I generally don't watch it any more.
(39) Although Shades of grey is a cool concept, every major fued has been between clearly defined characters, heel or face. Rock Hogan. Austin Rock. Austin McMahon. Tripper Batista. Jericho/HBK, Jericho/Mysterio. Confusing the crowd isn't a proven way to do things. Austin and Rock were shades of grey in the Attitude Era, you say? When face, they were put over by the commentators as super-face, and never did anything to antagonise the crowd. So it was a fresh look at heels and faces, where the anti-hero (you'd assume his antics were heel) were lauded. So no, shades of grey is bad. But 3-dimensional fully fleshed out, strong characters are great.
(40) Get out. Finishers. You mean trademark moves. "Finishing move" like the God-damn word implies, that your opponent will be 'finished' when the move is executed/applied. How many times did AJ get the Styles Clash on Angle on Jan 4th, only for Angle to kick out? Kicking out of a 'finisher' should be once in a blue-moon for maximum effect, not the status quo. It's rare that someone will kick out of an RKO or FU, but a lot of people have kicked out of an Angle Slam. Preposterous. Kicking out of a finisher (without eg too much time between execution and covering your opponent) should be banned/used very, very sparingly.
(41) It's true, TNA hide their green talent better than WWE. Maybe it's because WWE's roster is stretched very thin, and they don't hire enough good talent. I don't think TNA's KO division hide TBP's obvious failings very well (thanks to there only being like 3 KO tag teams)
(42) Cody Deaner being gone I suppose is a plus for TNA, but better for RAW, since he was never there. I don't particularly like him, but I can imagine other people liking him. Maybe if he was a parody, as opposed to a "legitimate" redneck would've been better.
(43) Mute button. Sometimes I have to mute Tenay and Taz, who really only take away from my enjoyment of iMPACT. I just fast-forward through segments/matches/wrestlers I don't like.
(44) No GMs on iMPACT is great - despite the rumours or threat of celebrity involvement - aren't we getting some arsehole from Twilight this week on iMPACT? Russo loves celebs and TNA isn't popular enough to garner decent celebs so I wouldn't really count it as a plus. But yes, the majority of GMs are poor. But you do get fantastic GMs too, like DiBiase, Ventura and Dusty, whom no doubt would've been used worse in TNA in the same role.
(45) Refs getting authority is great. Although I wish Slick Johnson still had his gimmick (and shorts)
(46) The IWGP deal has been handled poorly, although the concept is fantastic. They need more NJPW talent in TNA, like Prince Devitt and Taguchi, not to mention their main event roster. But it really gives TNA an international feel, I hope they do more with it. (Do I need to give out about how the MMG are treated in TNA despite these ganjins having the IWGP Jr. Tag Belts, a feat rarely, RARELY accomplished by other non-japanese?)
(47) I enjoy EZE and look forward to what he's gonna do in TNA. Definitely a great character to have on the show.
(48) Universe? Or a TNAtion? At least they don't use the word on TNA much. It is proof that TNA watches WWE, not vice-versa. I hate it every time someone says "WWE Universe" on WWE TV. F*** you, I'm part of no such thing!
(49) Upset wins are good if they make sense and do something with them. But TNA do a poor job of making their home-grown talent look as good as their Ex-WWE talent. They've only protected Kurt Angle, and over-exposed him, at the expense of every other TNA-talent since his arrival a few years ago. Why didn't Joe go over Angle in their feud? Why is AJ only beating him now? Why did Sting 'allow' AJ to get the title win at Bound For Glory. What, you don't care about it? TNA's treatment and view of their own talent - clearly visible during the complete destruction of the TNA Frontline at the hands of the Ex-WWE/WCW MEM is just despicable booking. MEM dominated the show for 9 months, with the Frontline -- headed by a lot of older, Ex-WWE/WCW talent -- not really demolishing them and being booked stronger. Thankfully we've seen the back of it and the homegrown TNA talent have been featured more prominently over the last few months
(50) I enjoy hearing the 'taboo' word 'wrestler'. Great success!
Overall, agreed with a lot, but I do feel it's a very biased pro-TNA list (as would be expected from the topic title). Some glaring problems were omitted, which could've been remedied for a post saying 50 Reasons to watch RAW over iMPACT. What i'm saying is that TNA still has a lot of problems and I hope they iron them out and become legitimate competition for RAW, and not fight over ratings with the WWE afterthought known as ECW.
List of random reasons that are wrong with TNA/iMPACT :
TNA cut to their many, many backstage segments far too quickly.
Their show is highly produced, which means it's obviously a tv-show, and has been edited that way, unlike RAW, which is live, and so gives it some kind of spontaneity.
Having multiple (+/- squash) matches under 5 minutes doesn't constitute good air time. It's just bad air-time management. Why did almost every member of the TNA roster get face-time on the Jan 4th show? Entirely unnecessary.
****ing Russo. I'll admit that since Ed Ferrara (yup!) came back, his shows have been making much more sense (some storylines, like Daniels being angry at AJ was great, made great sense and seemed real). But without a filter, we get "let's break kayfabe" stuff like Stevie Richards "legitimately" setting fire to Abyss during rehersal of a pre-planned spot during the match (explained during Final Resolution build-up to the match). WTF! You've just said that wrestling is fake 'although this is real'. That - although admittedly a cool idea - is COMPLETELY wrong. Admitting your show is FAKE, and not just sprinkling smark references in the show, is a cardinal sin. Wrong wrong wrong!
Why are the multiple segments AFTER the main event wrestling match? Is your main event not good enough?
Anyway I don't want to bash TNA more as it's a new year, with new (and old) faces and iMPACT looks to be a much more enjoyable show than the more-than-stale RAW I hope the trend of increasing quality and sense of iMPACT, and overall quality of the TNA PPVs keeps improving on the impressive last few months. 2
Comments
-
-
-
You'll have to explain to me how Beer Money, 3D and the Machine Guns are better than D-X, Jerishow and the Hart Foundation. The answer is they aren't
Wrestler-to-wrestler you're right, but WWE's tag division is in the pits - it doesn't help that the future isn't bright for DX or JeriShow. Although I hope The Hart Dynasty do great things this year.
I'd personally much rather watch Beer Money and MMG than DX and JeriShow, but I can't really argue, DX are the best out of the lot because it's comprised of two world class main-eventers who are always given ample time and have free-reign to do what they like (they've main-evented two PPVs in 2009). It's also true that they're only a tag team when it suits them -only a bit more credible than say, a random face pairing of Cena/Batista-, and will have broken up in time for WrestleMania...JeriShow (two main eventers who've come together) has broken up, again a transient tag team.
I think Jerishow's 'greatness' is down completely to Jericho, who does all the donkey work inside the ring and on the mic. He's made it work superbly, and is one of the top assets to WWE right now. So good they had him work most of the year on RAW and SD.
Not so much a tag division as a collection of singles wrestlers in tag matches in WWE. Hart Dynasty as a tag team though. Legacy too. I'd wager that TNA place a greater emphasis on tag team wrestling, with actual tag teams, in tag team matches. Their division is deeper with more talent than WWE's, who's champions and challengers are only tag teams when it suits them. I'll give you that talented mid-carders will never be "better" than main-eventers bundled together, because they're featured heavier and given time to shine. TNA's tag division is midcard and bust their ass to get noticed. So if I put Angle and Hogan together, they'd be the greatest tag team ever, because they'd be super over and always have good-great matches, and both are excellent on the mic. Again, not a real tag team, a transient combination of main-event singles wrestlers.
Anyway, let's go through the Tag rosters of each company.
Beer Money : Two young veterans who have tag-team psychology and gimmicks down, and really very over. Both have good mic skills. (I prefer Storm)
3D : Old, limited brawling wrestlers who can whip the crowd up into a frenzy. (an impressive skill)
Machine Guns : Fantastic fast-paced, varied, innovative multiple tag team moves, who do everything right. Booked very badly in TNA, but are over despite that. If you don't think they're great then I can't really help you out with them.
...actually, if you can find Turning Point 2008, Beer Money and the Guns a highly underrated and underappreciated match - it has simply everything you could ask for. Spots, psychology, drama, everything.
TNA also have Lethal Consequences, a white-meat babyface tag team of Jay Lethal and Black Machismo, who are always good for a decent match, The British Invasion, who are doing great with the improvement of Magnus, who follows the underrated Doug Williams' lead....Usually get a tag team out of the World Elite (MEM are no more)....Hernandez and Morgan just joined up....and they've hired the Young Bucks, a fantastic spot-monkey tag team, who look like the Hardyz ala 1998 and wrestle like the Guns (with less experience).
WWE
DX : I hate their juvenile humour with Hornswoggle, schlocking their merchandise, but they've been a much better tag team this year than previous outings, doing a great job with Legacy and good exchanges with JeriShow. Two world-class veterans don't have anything less than a good match in the ring. Although there's no in-ring psychology and they're not interested in the tag belts (or the WWE title, if you watched the build up to 2009's Survivor Series)
JeriShow : Fantastic heel and superlative veteran hand jericho drags the overweight and injured Show to good outings. This is a one-man team. Although their backstage banter is interesting enough (again lead by Jericho)
Hart Dynasty : Green talented spot-monkey and lifeless wellness policy-failure mean it's a tag team with potential. Both of them are poor characters and can't cut a promo. I suppose what do you expect when the majority of new talent in WWE is 2nd/3rd Gen with "i'm my fathers' son" as their gimmick.
WWE also have MVP and Mark Henry (who show no charisma, and continues MVP's irrelevance - hopefully his US title match with the Miz sees the end of his poor spell) Legacy (who've looked great against DX but poor/unimportant lackies otherwise) Cryme Tyme (I hate their stereotypical guts) and Jimmy Wang Yang & Slam Master J, who can also rot in PG-hell.
WWE would have a far better looking tag roster if they were all on one show. But stretched over two, and JeriShow gone, their tag division is pretty limp.0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Maybe in 2000 but now people buy DVDs and Blu-Rays.Being the most popular for a short period of time in TNA means very very little
Oh right. Didn't understand why you mentioned VHS in the first place. It's kind of irrelevant - since t-shirts are still the biggest sellers in wrestling merchandise. Is being top selling t-shirt for at least a year (if not ever - it's hard to find newer info on this) a short time? Selling the most amount of t-shirts despite not being pushed by the company means you've connected with the audience and overcome the terrible booking of the company, something very difficult to do, and even more incredible for a mid-card non-winning tag team. Should give you a clue about just how talented they are. Obviously not.
I get it, you love DX and think the MMG are simply cruiserweight tag-team nobodies. Good for you, I disagree! You've only mentioned one or two of the dozens of points made above. Can I assume you concede/agree? Otherwise please answer themchopperbyrne wrote: »Somebody could list a thousand reasons to watch Impact over Raw, but until Sensible Booking is one of them, nothing will change.
Agreed. iMPACT has been making more sense over the last couple of months but it's still car-crash quick-cuts. But the storylines (especially in the main event) make good sense. (Some things I can't/won't defend but I have to admit Russo and Ferrara are doing a much better job than just Russo alone - but still have a lot of pacing/other problems)0 -
-
-
Fine.
(1) Impact is not TV-PG. The TV-PG approach may benefit WWE financially and hook some young viewers, but I personally am an adult and wish to be treated like one.
Bollox. Up, Lion King, Toy Story, Wall-E, Beauty and the Beast, Zelda etc. Are any of these things worse because they're aimed at 8 year olds. No
(2) The prominence of the women's division. Most of the Knockouts are treated as more than eye candy, as they're used in competitive matches and intriguing storylines in the same fashion as the males.
When Lita and Trish were on top it was nowhere near as enthralling as the males in that company although i did enjoy Kim and Kong alot. Also the best female story atm is Piggie James and the best woman is Maryse
(3) The non-household names the company is building around. I'm extremely excited to see how much guys like Styles, Daniels, Wolfe, Morgan, Hernandez, Dinero, and Joe develop in the coming years.
I'm looking forward to see how Hall, nash, Steiner, Waltman, 3D, the Nasty Boys, Angle, Hogan and Flair develop
(4) The Knockouts take bumps. Hamada moonsaulting through tables, hardcore matches, Saeed going through the stage...you don't see this stuff from the females on Raw.
Same reason as number 2
(5) The crowd chants. The crowd is more lively on Impact, and the dueling chants for two different competitors is just awesome to listen to.
Bollox. The Impact zone are bribed to chant with prizes and it makes virtually no difference. it is funny to here fire Russo about three times a show though
(6) The dual entrance tunnel. I love the logic of separating two feuding wrestlers and having them come out through separate entrances.
How could this affect your enjoyment?
(7) There's no invisible camera. In the battle for logic, this is why Impact will always edge out Raw and instill more realism.
Huh? WWE's production is much better and in the best match of the year an invisible camera would have taken out the best spot of the match
(8) Interviewers with personalities. JB, Lauren, Val, and Hemme all get personalities and even stand up for themselves. You won't see Josh Matthews getting his own storyline on Raw.
I do like this but it's not that big of a deal. Nobody watches Impact for Borash
(9) Blood is allowed. Blading should be rare, and is never actually needed. But in the right situation, it can be great imagery and really sell an angle.
Same reason as number 1. Blood is good if used sparingly but it's not a deal breaker but I don't like the new superglue thing
(10) Everybody gets mic time. Not everyone is as great as Desmond Wolfe, but each guy gets a chance. I have a hard time even remembering what Evan Bourne or Primo sound like.
I'd prefer for the good ones to get mic time alone. Young guys who are good on the mic get time on it like Miz. There's a reason that Primo and Bourne don't
(11) They acknowledge departures. The one that comes to mind is Christian Cage. They explained Lauren's departure too, and now that is also likely with Lashley. People just disappear from Raw with no mention.
What difference does this make
(12) The X Division. Sure it's not what it could be or what it once was, but they still do moves that you have a snowball's chance in hell of seeing on Raw. WWE doesn't let their guys do some of those spots, plain and simple.
Yeah, like a shooting star splash finish or people killing themselves on ladders never happens in the WWE
(13) They follow through on storyline firings. Kaz and Daniels are the perfect example of this for Impact. How many times has Jericho been banished from Raw, only to return the next week.
It's nice but it's not a big deal. I prefer the way WWE follows through on storylines. Why did Lethal lose to Neidhart again
(14) They recognize other companies. No, I'm not talking about WWE, WCW, or ECW. I love the recognition of promotions in Mexico and Japan. WWE treats the wrestling world like they are the only promotion in existence.
They have to, they're not number 1. If you don't have to you shouldn't. Also there was no X-cup this year
(15) A.J. Styles. With all the monikers in wrestling (War Machine, The Animal), Styles "Phenomenal" tag is the only one that is actually true. He doesn't rely solely on his athletic moves, but when he busts them out they are simply phenomenal.
AJ. Not as good as Jericho or HBK to name just two and he has an awful look
(16) Scott Steiner is hilarious. Santino used to reign here, but is now forcing his comedy. Steiner is the funniest unintentional comedy character out there.
Yeah. Not arguing this one. Best thing about the show
(17) Jeff Hardy. Whether or not TNA blows this signing is yet to be seen, but the potential with Hardy on the TNA roster is hard to calculate. The sky is the limit.
The sky is the limit. Actually, prison could well be the limit, or another wrestler death
(18) There's a more human nature with the wrestlers. Past Rough Cuts segments and the Before the Bell stuff we saw last week makes their characters seem less over-the-top and more human.
The rough cut is good but WWE's Wrestlemania documentary the year Austin quit was much better
(19) The tag team division. With team like Beer Money, The Brits, 3D, The Guns and the Young Bucks, Impact is far and away the best here.
No more needed
(20) The boss is easier to relate to. Dixie Carter seems a million times more human and sincere than Vince McMahon. Can you imagine Vince posting optimistic comments on a social networking site?
Bollox. Vince is one of the biggest characters in the last 20 years of wrestling. Dixie is just a bordeline Milf who has enough time to waste on Twitter. There's a great thread in the F4W forum showing what a joke this is
(21) They appease the Internet fans. Yes, I know this does nothing but hurt the overall product. But I am a smart fan, and I still think it's a bit cool when they throw out an insider reference on TV.
WWE does this all the time with DX and it's stupid. Inside jokes alienate the majority of your fans
(22) Match innovation. Although we've only seen a few in Impact's history, the Ultimate X is the most creative concept out there. Most gimmick matches just add violence and brutality, but TNA actually has one that adds innovation and athletic showmanship.
1 good one but a good few crap ones like the Terrordrome, reverse battle royal, the weapoins tied to the top of the cage, turkey bowl, X on a poll match etc. WWE came up with 2 I think in the same time period and the Elimination Chamber is the best of both worlds
(23) Submission holds. WIth Wolfe and Angle taking pages from the MMA and European skill sets, there are matches on Impact that are a sheer joy to watch.
Taker was the first one to take a page from MMA properly. The Ankle lock was the finisher Shamrock used in the WWE, not the UFC
(24) The announcers. I like the banter between the duo of Tenay and Tazz. Overall, they are leaps and bounds ahead of the Lawler/Cole combo on Raw.
JR is still the best one there
(25) Battle Royal rules. In TNA, the final two left have a standard match to determine a winner. I hate watching the final two participants try nothing more than hoisting each other over a top rope on Raw.
What difference does this make.It's a pointless rule change for no reason. Also the best battle royal of the year is coming up in a few weeks and that uses conventional rules
(26) The Knockouts don't dress up every week. It's happened on a few rare instances on Impact, but it's a routine occurrence on Raw.
Bollox. It's just Bollox. Maryse as the Gobbly Gooker and Halloween are the only ones I can think of recently and Maryse's one was genius
(27) There are more swerves. Sometimes there can be too many, but I hate the predictability of Raw. I may roll my eyes at something on Impact, but at least I didn't see it coming.
There are always too many and they're always very stupid
(28) The room for growth. Raw may never lose it's number one spot, but Impact will have more growth, evolution and development in the foreseeable future.
Uh, possibly but with ex-WWE stars not the crap that's been spouted in these 28 reasons so far. Also, bar the Hoganstravaganza which I'm much in favour of they haven't grown at all and their PPV's continue to shrink
(29) Wrestlers joining commentary are not a surprise. On Raw, Lawler and Cole sell shock when they are joined at the desk, despite an empty chair and headset set up right beside them. I hate that.
What difference does this make
(30) The crane camera shot above the ring. When a wrestler goes up to the top rope and we get the brid's-eye view shot, it's cool to see the wrestling craft from a different angle.
Once again, a different angle is not better. I like it when we see the pins, not when they change the angle during a pinfall due to a wardrobe accident. WWE have world class production, TNA doesn't
(31) Non-TNA talents are welcome. I loved the X Cup stuff on Impact, because it gave fans a chance to see what some foreign promotions have to offer.
X-Cup hasn't been there for a while and TNA need any talent they can get. Also what are guest hosts if not non-WWE talent
(32) The unobstructed cage match view. TNA has holes cut into the side of their cages to allow a camera to film inside the cage without actually interfering. Great concept.
This makes no difference. Good lord. So much of these reasons are such stupid filler crap. Who gives a ****. The old view was fine. People who buy tickets to UFC don't complain about the cage
(33) All the new faces. I'm not excited about some, but it's cool watching Impact wondering who's going to show up next.
One of occurence which I'm in favour of but it's not like TNA will be able to bring in 6 new guys every week.
(34) Bleeps. They've been overused in the past, but I like that they are there. In that type of environment, it's hard to believe not one person would swear in two hours.
You like Bleeps. Retarded.
(35) Velvet Sky. Enough said.
(36) The Beautiful People ring entrance. Enough said.
Now these two take the biscuit. Could have sworn I was reading earlier about how it's great how TNA women actually wrestle etc. etc. etc. and now it's great that two of them show their ass, two who can barely wrestle at all? FFS. Split personality this guy has. WWE women are better looking in general. Maryse and Layla being the peak of the two companies, Hemme coming third
(37) World title contenders. On Raw it's Cena and...nobody. On Impact it's Daniels, Joe, Wolfe, and Angle. Even Lashley has a title shot stored up.
Yeah, having a number 1 contender never works. What you want is 4 number 1 contenders. There's a reason proper sports only have one, it's called the build
(38) The embarrassment factor. If my family or non-wrestling friends walked in on me watching TV on Monday night, I would be less embarrassed about Impact on my screen than Raw.
That's because they wouldn't know what Impact was:D
(39) Shades of gray booking. Some are fans of the old-school heel or face only concept, but I like a few select storylines where there is no clear line and I am allowed to decide who to cheer or boo.
Examples? You can cheer who you want. Also Orton and Mizorrisson were the best examples of tweeners in any company earlier on in the year
(40) Finishing moves. The main guys on Raw have the Attitude Adjustment, Pedigree, RKO, and the Big Show Punch. Impact has the Styles Clash, Tower of London, Muscle Buster, and Angel's Wings.
Which moves are more over. A finishing move doesn't have to be an ultra complicated thing, the best ones are out of nowhere one hit wonders like the Stunner, RKO or the Superkick
(41) Less green wrestlers. I know Rob Terry and Lacey aren't great in the ring, but WWE has always had more guys in there that can only do the basic moves.
They also have far more experienced guys. This guy said earlier that he was excited to see new faces but now he says the WWE have more of them
(42) Cody Deaner. Just the fact that I no longer have to worry about seeing him on my TV when I watch Impact is enjoyable.
Filler
(43) I don't use the mute button. I'm talking specifically about the muting of Jillian Hall on Raw. That's not heel heat, but change the channel heat.
Why would this guy mute the channel then change it. Filler
(44) No guest hosts. Some on Raw have been great, but others have been abysmal. I still prefer one or two authority figures making matches and decisions on a weekly basis.
Didn't TNA used to have 4 authority figures none of which had any authority. Nobody even knows who's in charge ATM in real life.
(45) The refs get authority. This system is still flawed and can make for lazy booking, but at least their trying. It's nice to see refs with personalities and actual names on Impact.
Why? What difference does it make. The best refs are the ones who aren't noticed
(46) IWGP. 3D dropped their tag belts, but I like that TNA can acknowledge their guys going to other companies and winning titles.
That's because they can't pay them enough to be exclusive to them
(47) Eric Bischoff. I always loved Bischoff in the GM role on Raw, and he could be great as an on-air authority figure. Nobody plays heel GM like Bischoff.
I love Bischoff to but the best heel GM is under a WWE contract, miss Vickie Guerrero
(48) One word - fans. I am a fan, not a member of a "Universe."
Well that's a retarded word but it makes no difference to the product
(49) More upset wins. Raw's matches are much easier to predict than Impact's. Just look at Dinero vs. Wolfe from this past Impact.
That's actually a problem. An upset in WWE means an awful lot because they rarely happen. Think Shelton vs. Hunter, MIz and Morrison winning the belts from Hardy and MVP or Seamus beating Cena. People remember this stuff because it never happens. Nobody's remembering Dinero vs. Wolfe. A good example of this is when Kong never lost but Wilde beat her. Now she loses regularly so nobody cares and nobody gets a rub
(50) TNA actually uses unheard of terms like "wrestling" or "wrestler."
Once again, that doesn't really matter to your enjoyment
Then I started reading yours and it turns out we agree on most retarded points made by this guy0 -
Lads you both make fine points but is it just me a little worried that this forum is turning into a pissing contest between WWE and Tna fans ?
I mean its not as bad as the soccer forum with all the Poll v United stuff but it could resemble it when Tna go live on a more regular basis. 0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
Advertisement