Force Majeure

Quality

Ok, so my son took ill on a Thursday whilst I was in work, I had to leave early to collect him and spent the rest of the weekend in hospital with him. Got out of the hospital on the Sunday evening under strict instructions from the registrar (the consultant was not letting us out that morning.)

I did not go to work on the Monday as I am the only person who knows how to administor his medicine/inhalers.

Boss is allowing me the Thursday for Force Majeure, but wants to hold out on the Monday, as I could have organised "alternative arrangements".

Apart from sending my 1 year old son to creche, I had no one else to look after him.

Should I appeal her decision, or am I wasting my time.

Appeal her decision.

He was unexpectedly sick which is why you needed time off work. That is what force majeure is for. As long as you have not used up the days elsewhere (3 per year but 5 within 3 years I think) then I see no reason why you should have to take annual leave. This is not something which is at the discretion of the employer, it's the law and I would not allow her away with it.

Quality

Yes but she is saying that because I knew he was sick from the Thursday that I could have made alternative arrangements.


My argument is that, my presence was indispensible.

ntlbell

Quality wrote: »

Ok, so my son took ill on a Thursday whilst I was in work, I had to leave early to collect him and spent the rest of the weekend in hospital with him. Got out of the hospital on the Sunday evening under strict instructions from the registrar (the consultant was not letting us out that morning.)

I did not go to work on the Monday as I am the only person who knows how to administor his medicine/inhalers.

Boss is allowing me the Thursday for Force Majeure, but wants to hold out on the Monday, as I could have organised "alternative arrangements".

Apart from sending my 1 year old son to creche, I had no one else to look after him.

Should I appeal her decision, or am I wasting my time.

You're well within your rights to appeal it.

but if you're in the private sector, I wouldn't push it to far.

Keano

By all means say your piece, but as long as your son is on the mend and its only 1 day then I would just leave it go.

scudzilla

ntlbell wrote: »

You're well within your rights to appeal it.

but if you're in the private sector, I wouldn't push it to far.

Why not? Companies in the private sector still have to abide by the law

ntlbell

scudzilla wrote: »

Why not? Companies in the private sector still have to abide by the law

Of course they do, but in the way things are, you don't want to be rocking the boat too hard.

they can abide by the law, pay you for the day.

Then suddenly can't afford your wages anymore, private company's can get shot of anyone anytime and stay perfectly within the law, it happens all the time, and now is not the time to be upsetting the apple cart, IMHO.

Mr. Presentable

Deleted User wrote: »

Appeal her decision.

He was unexpectedly sick which is why you needed time off work.

OK, but the unexpectedly sick was four days previous. I'd say the employer could see that as an abuse of the rule.

nipplenuts

nipplenuts wrote: »

OK, but the unexpectedly sick was four days previous. I'd say the employer could see that as an abuse of the rule.

http://www.equality.ie/index.asp?docID=237

It states that:

Entitlement to force majeure leave is limited to circumstances where the immediate presence of the employee, at the place where the ill or injured person is situated, is indispensable.

The OP has already stated that her presence was indispensible, she was required to administer medicines to her sick son. Alternative arrangements should not have to be made in the case that those arrangements could have an adverse effect on the child. That would be my view on it but it is just a view.

OP, best thing to do maybe is give the rights commissioner a call, they will quickly advise the best course of action.

Hope your son is doing ok!

Mrs OBumble

Unless the OP is a health professional, and therefore could be expected to have more capacity to understand a doctors instructions than a regular child-care worker, I think this would be pushing it.

Just my 2c, I'm no expert here.

Quality

No I appreciate your opinion, I know my boss does not want to give the leave to me, I want to appeal and will. But I want to be 99% sure that I have a good case here.

Its not about whether the bosses decision is fair or not fair.


It is whether in the eyes of the law I am entitled to force majeure in the circumstances.

Please any criticism is welcome because I know once I enter this appeal I will receive plenty of criticism.

Shelflife

A key question here would be who administered the medication on tues. if someone else did it tues then maybe they could have done it mon.

you cant blame your boss for trying to keep their costs down, from their point of view they have paid you for a days absence which had nothing to do with them.

there has to be a bit of give and take.

Quality

Shelflife wrote: »

A key question here would be who administered the medication on tues. if someone else did it tues then maybe they could have done it mon.

you cant blame your boss for trying to keep their costs down, from their point of view they have paid you for a days absence which had nothing to do with them.

there has to be a bit of give and take.

I work part time, was not required to work the rest of the week due to closure of business over xmas. So I was with my son.

Curl52

Force majure only applys to unforeseen circumstances, Thursday was force majure, Monday was not unexpected thus was not force majure. Most bosses are lenient and will allow you to take this as sick leave so it is unfortunate that this is not the case for OH but from working in HR I do not believe that Monday qualifies for force majure as it was not unexpected, force majure is there for emergency reasons only.

jimmmy

Deleted User wrote: »

The OP has already stated that her presence was indispensible, she was required to administer medicines to her sick son.

I am sure someone else could be found to "administer medicines to her sick son". Suppose the mother herself was ( heaven forbid) ill and unable to "administer medicines to her sick son", I am sure the world would not have stopped and her sick son would have got the medicine.
Why cannot the mother take a days holidays like everyone else in such a situation. Sounds like the mother is swinging the lead looking for more paid days off....let her take days off at her own expense if she needs to, or else use her holidays.

kida

tend to agree with previous post, Thursday should be allowed. Monday shoudn't. Key word is "Unexpected".

vedwards

What was the outcome? Did you get fired?

My son was the first to come upon the suicide of his young friend. I explained my situation to the management and they were very understanding and said I could take as much time off as I wanted to be with my son. I took two days including the funeral. When I returned I asked how was I fixed with the time-off and I was told it would be considered Force Majeure - very kind & understanding I thought. Last week I checked how much holiday time I have left and I find a discrepancy which leads me to believe that those day were subtracted from my holidays.
Working in industry and things are precarious. Should I follow it up or just leave it?
I normally don't bother with holidays only I'm forced to take them in recent years because I cannot carry them over or get paid in lieu as in previous years so for me it's the principle. It seems to be the policy in our company that no one gets fired - just gently pushed to resign.