Swiss Flat mate

gubbie

OK so I'm currently living in Switzerland and will be here for the next 8 weeks, and I have a housemate who is so unbelievably anal about the dishes and just general cleanliness. So I want to write him a letter to leave him on the day that I leave (I have no plans on every talking or seeing him again and no he's not a friend on any Bebo or whatnot). I don't want to say it to him before I go because I don't want to live in an uncomfortable surrounding.

Oh and I want to point out he's a first year in college... I know I wasn't complaining about the dishes when I was in first year. Too busy getting drunk like all the other first years.

Here's the reasons why I want to write the letter:
He never ever says things to my face, just leaves me notes. Even worse then the notes are when he just leaves the stuff outside my door. For example the tupperware that I had on the draining board (and which duh is kept in the kitchen) he left outside my door so it was there when I woke up the morning after cleaning it. He leaves ANYTHING that I leave in the living room for more then 6 hours outside my door. Even if its just my coat hanging on a chair.

The notes are usually left because he had to put my breakfast dish into the washing machine (it's now a total of 4 times in 4 months! Shock, horror. And yes for those 4 dishes he's left me 4 notes) but the longest I've ever had a dish out was for 3 days (the others were for no more then half)

And the worst is the times he's actually bothered saying it to my face because this is usually him complaining that I hadn't washed up my dinner dishes... while eating dinner. This has happened twice, the worst being when my friend was over from Ireland on a visit. I couldn't believe it.

And the last thing is he's also walked in, uninvited (I have never invited him in), into my room and complained about the mess of it. My private room.

I've also been living here for twice as long as he has... but I don't know if that makes much of a difference.

Also wouldn't mind pranking him on my last day.

Or am I being over the top? And ya my main point of this thread is that I want help writing this letter Thanks!

shellyboo

So, your complaint is that he never says things to your face - and you want to write him a letter? That makes you just as passive aggressive as him. If you've a problem, tell him to back off. Otherwise you're just doing the same thing he does.

Cheap Thrills!

Ha, give him a taste of his own medicine OP.

He's probably too self involved to get it though but feck it if it makes you feel better what harm, you'll never see the fool again after all.

gubbie

Hmm will do so... that's been the general consensus from friends to tell that I know I have to clean up but his time period is boardering clean-freak, but I wanted an unbiased opinion from people who don't know me

Thanks for the comment

Honestly, OP, he's not going to get it. He's Swiss. I've had several Swiss flatmates myself and they were all like that, completely anal and acting like the rest of us were immature and selfish if we left a dish out for a day or two or left our clothes on the clothes horse longer than strictly necessary. It's a really regimented society as I'm sure you know, the way they have certain times allocated for doing their laundry and cutting their grass. They really like their rules and regulations. Leave a note if you want, but it'll just confirm to him that you're immature and messy like he thought, and he'll think you're just oversensitive and couldn't take what he thought was reasonable behaviour in order to keep the place clean. I'm not saying you are like this, but that's how he'll see it. I'd rather eat glass than live with a Swiss person again. Sounds like you got off lightly anyway, the b!tch I lived with used to look at my food in the fridge and lecture me on my diet and the way I cooked.

gubbie

Ah but this is a really great note!!

Thanks. I got really pissed off because he only left the note about 2 hours ago, when he knew I was in the room (I'd seen him an hour previously, and two other times in the day. The dish he had to clean up was this morning). I thought it was rude to leave a note if you know they're there.

Zaph

The best thing you can do is forget about writing a note, and tbh PI isn't here to help you with your letter writing skills. Have it out with him face to face if you're so fed up with his attitude. It doesn't have to be until the day before you leave if you're worried about the atmosphere in the flat for the next 8 weeks, but it is the adult thing to do. Leaving tit-for-tat notes and "pranking" are childish responses to already childish behaviour and you should rise above his level.

gandalf

Ignore him and don't bother writing him a letter. I mean is this person even that important to you.

My god if he had some of the housemates I had years ago he would have a nervous breakdown in days

CodeMonkey

In Japan you are expected to take your shoes off when entering someone's home. Are they anal too if they insist? It's a cultural difference and you probably are a messy person. Ignore him or clean your **** up since it's shared accommodation and not your house. Quit acting so immature.

AJ STYLES

the swiss are a joke. u know all those stereotypes about germans well they should be for the swiss.

magneticimpulse

This "leaving a letter" is silly and immature. You either sort things out now face to face and explain to him that you dont appreciate notes being left or things outside your door.

What are you expecting to be achieved by writing a letter? He wont give a rats arse and you will no longer live with him so why should he even be bothered? Leaving dirty dishes out for 3 days is really disgusting and I can understand why this pisses people off. After sharing with over 20 people Ive dealth with all sorts. Yes the Swiss (and French/Germans) are very strict about hygiene in sharing places. I had 2 incrediable messy housemates. One occassion, I shared with a french girl and I know this really peed her off. It started to annoy me too...this messy English girl left half a dead cow in the freezer which started to defrost as she had filled it with too much meat she got from a farmer!! I mean come on, a normal fridge freezer between 4 adults? In the end my parents threw out all the meat, as it had been in there for over a year and the blood was dripping onto the floor everyday defrosting.

I also had Chinese housemates who insisted on cutting their hair in the bathroom at 1 am every night. Leaving it behind. We had common money to buy common household goods, but they said they did not want to share toilet paper, because they didnt want it! They also hogged the washing machine all weekend, washing one t-shirt at a time in the machine.

In the end, you have to accept you are Sharing!! That means accepting peoples habits whether you agree with it or not. It means not leaving your crap in common areas. I dont think this swiss person is unreasonable. If my ex housemates started leaving their crap everywhere (with 4 or 6 adults) the place would be a mess. Either live by yourself or deal with sharing with people.

What you think is acceptable, might be dirty hygiene standards to other people. Your not going to change their standards by a letter.

Nevyn

Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

Jagera

I have been living here for a while, and I hear a lot about the note writing and pettiness of the Swiss. That's just how they like to play it. (example, a friend of ours got a laminated note on his bike which overlapped his naughbours fence by a few inches. Neighbours which he grew up next to)

Really, I wouldn't bother with the letter back to him on the last day, or any other prank. Either confront him to his face, and just tell him to grow up, or just leave and you will never see him again.

homerjay2005

maybe you should just clean up after you? to be honest, leaving dishes out for 3 days is lazy. you should get the message by now, if you want it to keep happening, then keep being lazy!

he probably doesnt have a personality, theres always one in every house and leaving notes is his comfort zone. i lived with a girl before who left notes all the time, and it really annoyed me, she was a cow and i always wanted to get back at her when i moved out, but i never bothered.those type of people are loners and will always be, so they are not worth it. you could do something small like put laxatives in all his drinks when you leave and bin all the bogroll, but thats as far as i would go....:p

he could be a pratt also, but im sure it works both ways here. he is being anal, but your "poking" at that analism and making it worse.....no pun intended there.

Taltos

Bit surprised at all the Swiss bashing here - wonder what they think about our colourful language.

OP - look - forget about notes or playing his game - he will win by the way.
I strongly suggest that you call a house meeting - and sit down and discuss this like adult.

It might mean laying out a set of rules etc - but the key thing here is
a) respecting your privacy
b) making allowances - both sides
c) speaking up when there is a problem - real or not
d) agreeing that messes will be cleaned in a timely manner - agree on the time window though...
e) no more notes - if there is an issue please speak up in the sitting room - or leave a note if you are going out and do not want to disturb the other person in their room.

Maybe try to meet even once a week for a tea/coffee in the house to discuss any annoyances. Trust me - when you start talking this through and you both learn to see it from the others viewpoint it should get better.

Failing that seek somewhere else to live.

AJ STYLES

its not bashing taltos, it's ethnic criticism :P

ManOfMystery

gubbie wrote: »

OK so I'm currently living in Switzerland and will be here for the next 8 weeks, and I have a housemate who is so unbelievably anal about the dishes and just general cleanliness. So I want to write him a letter to leave him on the day that I leave (I have no plans on every talking or seeing him again and no he's not a friend on any Bebo or whatnot). I don't want to say it to him before I go because I don't want to live in an uncomfortable surrounding.

Oh and I want to point out he's a first year in college... I know I wasn't complaining about the dishes when I was in first year. Too busy getting drunk like all the other first years.

Here's the reasons why I want to write the letter:
He never ever says things to my face, just leaves me notes. Even worse then the notes are when he just leaves the stuff outside my door. For example the tupperware that I had on the draining board (and which duh is kept in the kitchen) he left outside my door so it was there when I woke up the morning after cleaning it. He leaves ANYTHING that I leave in the living room for more then 6 hours outside my door. Even if its just my coat hanging on a chair.

The notes are usually left because he had to put my breakfast dish into the washing machine (it's now a total of 4 times in 4 months! Shock, horror. And yes for those 4 dishes he's left me 4 notes) but the longest I've ever had a dish out was for 3 days (the others were for no more then half)

And the worst is the times he's actually bothered saying it to my face because this is usually him complaining that I hadn't washed up my dinner dishes... while eating dinner. This has happened twice, the worst being when my friend was over from Ireland on a visit. I couldn't believe it.

And the last thing is he's also walked in, uninvited (I have never invited him in), into my room and complained about the mess of it. My private room.

I've also been living here for twice as long as he has... but I don't know if that makes much of a difference.

Also wouldn't mind pranking him on my last day.

Or am I being over the top? And ya my main point of this thread is that I want help writing this letter Thanks!

To be honest it sounds like you're both in the wrong.

He certainly should not be entering your private room or dictating how it is kept.

Leaving 'notes' is also irritating especially if he has made little or no effort to talk to you about this.

On the other hand ....................

Leaving out a dirty plate for 3 days is just laziness and it would bother me too if I walked into the kitchen (or wherever it was) and saw it. Especially when you have a dishwasher. Dirty dishes lying out creates odour, attracts insects, etc. In fact, if you have a dishwasher, why would a dirty plate even be left out for a single day? Eat your food, put plate in dishwasher - simples - problem solved, no tension or drama.

And writing him a letter to give on your last day is a tad hypocritical - he won't speak to you so you're going to do the same?

Surely it can't be that difficult for 2 adults to act as adults and compromise with each other ................

BKtje

Just out of curiosity is he (they) swiss germans? (ie german dialect speaking swiss?). Just asked some of the swiss people here (swiss french) and theylaughed.

I wouldn't bother with the letter to him either, just be happy that you are gone. That said if there was an agreement in place between you and he (and other flatmates if applicable) about keeping the place tidy than you should really not leave anything standing (though giving out about your dinner stuff while you were still eating is a little crazy unless you left it in a mess and he couldn't make his food or something / coming into your room is never on).

The above said, i have noticed that even the french speaking swiss will generally get the dishes done pretty quickly after a meal (well the older generations, younger generations are similar enough to the irish really).

Anyway i would have had it out with him a long time ago, i definately wouldn't bother with notes.

Abi

gubbie wrote: »

Ah but this is a really great note!!

Thanks. I got really pissed off because he only left the note about 2 hours ago, when he knew I was in the room (I'd seen him an hour previously, and two other times in the day. The dish he had to clean up was this morning). I thought it was rude to leave a note if you know they're there.

No. Just no. This is all very childish. you're going to be leaving soon enough, so let it drop. You're so busy pointing the finger at this guy, and unwilling to take a look at yourself. You may have a more relaxed attitude to tidiness, but perhaps too much so?

aDeener

OP should have posted in AH. it would be much more helpful to the kind of response you are looking for!

Miaireland

The Swiss in general very neat and clean and at the end of the day you are in their country so to be honest I think you should live with it. The notes are annoying but maybe that is just his way.

Be honest is it really that hard to put your dish in the dishwasher or hang your jacket in your room. For the sake of eight weeks put your things away. You'll be out of there soon enough.

I would be furious if he walked into your room uninvited and I would make it very clear to him that this is entirely out of order if he does it again.

Do not play a prank. It immature and will make you look sad.

kmick

Im not Swiss and I would be annoyed if someone left dishes around in a shared space. If someone left dishes around in a shared space for three days I would be very annoyed. Clean up your dishes, hang up your coat and he wont have any reason to be annoyed.

username123

kmick wrote: »

Im not Swiss and I would be annoyed if someone left dishes around in a shared space. If someone left dishes around in a shared space for three days I would be very annoyed. Clean up your dishes, hang up your coat and he wont have any reason to be annoyed.

+1
Leaving dirty dishes around for 3 days is pretty disgusting. I dont understand the concept of leaving dirty dishes around at all if you have a dishwasher, eat off dish, put dish in dishwasher - end of.

I also dont know why youd be leaving your stuff lying around a shared living area. Its just messy and rude tbh.

If its your own house, live whatever way you want. If youre sharing rental accomodation, have some basic manners and consideration for the other person.

I dont agree with his note leaving either, he should just say it to your face.

I definitely dont think you should leave him a letter, he will just think youre some weirdo who cant clean up after themselves then leaves silly letters after theyre gone. Its childish. Why do it?

Jo King

If you really want to get back at a flatmate, buy some rashers. Lift the carpets in a few places and stick the rashers to the floor and put back the carpets. After a week or two the smell will be appalling.

Redpunto

On your last day leave a sink full of dirty dishes, silly yes but you'll walk out with a big smile

jelomulawin

Err, OP, I think you're the one on the wrong side here... If he just leave you notes, then he's probably busy or he doesn't want to confront you about it...

And yeah, you're being over the top for being lazy ass, you just need to mature up, c'mon, you don't want him to say to you:
GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRAYYYY

quank

Wow, a lot of immature people here.

OP, your housemate reminds me of me. I always give out to my family for leaving dirty dishes all over the house and clothes just randomly scattered. It does my head in. It really does sound like you need some proper manners. As others have already noted: three days? Are you serious? That is seriously lazy and disgusting. Grow up and take responsibility. Fair enough, the chap probably shouldn't have had entered your room without permission and/or lectured you on your messy room but by the sounds of it, he's got good grounds for his annoyance.

So about your original question: no, don't write a letter. You're better off apologising to your housemate for being untidy and leaving your mess for him to clean up. For real.

fonecrusher1

gubbie wrote: »

And the last thing is he's also walked in, uninvited (I have never invited him in), into my room and complained about the mess of it. My private room.

Who the hell does this guy think he is?
If someone walked into my room uninvited i would see to it that they very quickly went back the way they came. Possibly in an airborne sort of way.
Despite you possibly being a little sloppy with the dishes he has no right to intrude on you like that. Just clean up after yourself & if he persists with the notes have it out with him face to face. I dont mean a massive argument, just clear the air once & for all.

Cianos

quank wrote: »

Wow, a lot of immature people here.

OP, your housemate reminds me of me. I always give out to my family for leaving dirty dishes all over the house and clothes just randomly scattered. It does my head in. It really does sound like you need some proper manners. As others have already noted: three days? Are you serious? That is seriously lazy and disgusting. Grow up and take responsibility. Fair enough, the chap probably shouldn't have had entered your room without permission and/or lectured you on your messy room but by the sounds of it, he's got good grounds for his annoyance.

So about your original question: no, don't write a letter. You're better off apologising to your housemate for being untidy and leaving your mess for him to clean up. For real.

Oh come on. A home is for living in, not for treating like some kind of sterile showroom. Different people have different standards of cleanliness. What's considered grand to one person could be considered disgusting to someone else, who could then live with someone who thinks their standards are too low.

Going around tut-tuting at people and making their life difficult just because they aren't up your standards is not on, and if that's the kind of person you are you shouldn't be living in shared accommodation. Similarly, someone who is not willing to do an extra bit here and there also shouldn't be living in shared accommodation.

A compromise has to be met, but often in my experience the person who thinks others are too messy, like the Swiss guy in the OP, never see why they should compromise, because saying "you're too tidy" isn't taken seriously.

unhappycamper

gubbie wrote: »

the longest I've ever had a dish out was for 3 days

Hi OP,

I have to say leaving a dish out for three days when you are house sharing is very frustrating. Even if this guy is anal about keeping the place clean it is not nice seeing left over slop in a bowl when all you want to do is have a clean visual when you are eating your breakfast first thing in the morning.

Handing in notes is rather silly but maybe he is slightly embarrassed to approach you about your cleaning habits as a grown adult.

Either way if I were you I would just conform to what he asks in order to keep the peace.

Firetrap

OP, I'm another person who's shared houses and HATES when people leave their stuff lying around in the kitchen and the house. I had a housemate for a while who used to just wash his stuff and throw it on the draining board - that used to drive me mad. If nothing else, I had no room to put my things on the draining board when I washed up. And, if I wanted to use a saucepan or dish that he had used and not bothered his arse to dry, I'd have to dry it myself and use it. Then there were the clothes on the clothes horse that he wouldn't bother taking off when they were dried, the things he'd leave lying around on the kitchen table etc. You get my drift. Only I knew he was only going to be with us for a short while, we would have been having a little chat.

I agree that your flatmate is out of line for leaving notes in your room but I think you shouldn't stoop to his level. You'll be gone out of there in a few weeks anyway.

What I think is far more important is that you take on board the things that other people on this thread have said concerning how flat mates should behave. Perhaps you should look at yourself and what sort of flat mate you are and change your ways.

Firetrap

Firetrap wrote: »

OP, I'm another person who's shared houses and HATES when people leave their stuff lying around in the kitchen and the house. I had a housemate for a while who used to just wash his stuff and throw it on the draining board - that used to drive me mad. If nothing else, I had no room to put my things on the draining board when I washed up. And, if I wanted to use a saucepan or dish that he had used and not bothered his arse to dry, I'd have to dry it myself and use it. Then there were the clothes on the clothes horse that he wouldn't bother taking off when they were dried, the things he'd leave lying around on the kitchen table etc. You get my drift. Only I knew he was only going to be with us for a short while, we would have been having a little chat.

Different strokes for different folks. You sound completely anal to me, for example. I hate mess and dirty dishes, but you object to people leaving dishes on a draining board? You know it's much more hygienic than using a cloth, right? Ideally people would clear them away once dry, but people have lives. You were seriously bothered by having to dry a saucepan? A 2 second wipe? I think that's way too much. I'd have a problem with a flatmate who got annoyed by me leaving *clean* dishes on the draining board for too long. Sharing means compromise, and that means that clean freaks need to adapt as well as messy people. A house is to be lived in. Someone who expects it spotless all the time and can't handle a cup being left out for a day is as bad as someone with no standards. I'd be more towards the 'clean freak' side, but I still have to let a lot of things slide. You can't expect people to live by your rules but in my experience, a lot of people do just that. They can't adjust to anyone else's way of living, and in a flat you're always going to have someone cleaner or messier than you. A middle ground needs to be found.

unattendedbag

OP im not gonna bash you on your living standards, as enough people seem to have done here, but certainly he is acting very childish himself by leaving notes. If you want to sent a hypothetical "two fingers" to the note leaving then just scrunch them up into a ball and leave them exactly where you find them and do not throw it into the bin. (Believe me he will soon lift them himself and eventually get the message).

He shouldnt be allowed to just walk into your room uninvited either. If he does it again id seriously recommend a few strong words. He has no right to comment on anything within your private room unless its affecting him, such as noise/smell/rodents, etc...
I also believe that he has no right to act the way you claim since he has lived there shorter than you. He's the one that decided he wanted to move into the same house as you so why should you suddenly change for him?

Respect works both ways. While the OP should make every effort to ensure he doesnt intentionally leave the place in a mess, the swiss housemate should realise that he is living in shared accomodation after all and invariably they come with messy/untidy housemates. If he doesnt like it then he can always move out.

jimmycrackcorm

Just put the dishes in the washer when you're finished eating - it's not that hard.

gypsygirl

Jo King wrote: »

If you really want to get back at a flatmate, buy some rashers. Lift the carpets in a few places and stick the rashers to the floor and put back the carpets. After a week or two the smell will be appalling.

Or maybe use fish instead of rashers , Sorry, couldn't resist that one,
I personally would just talk to the housemate about the rules for the next few weeks, You'll be out of there in no time, so don't waste your valuable time thinking up revenge tactics , try to enjoy the very different experience, try to respect your housemates culture, in the future you may want someone to respect yours. At least you'll have learned to look at it from both perspectives. Good Luck.

LegacyUser

What you should do is get a packet of post-its, so rather than just leaving a letter, leave him LOTS of notes all over the place, be imaginative where you put them so he will be finding them for a while. = )

I would also like to state being Swiss has nothing to do with that behavior, the guy is just a dick. I have a close friend living in Switzerland with his Swiss girlfriend and I find most of the people there great, very friendly, and neither her nor any of her family to be any way anal about cleaning ,schedules,planning and what not, you know the normal German/Swiss/Austrian stereotype, and are in fact very easy going. They are also "german-swiss" as opposed to the french and italian swiss. If I could get a job there I would be gone in a shot.

You mentioned you left a dinner plate out for 3 days? Now that in fairness would annoy me too, but most of the stuff you mentioned seemed a bit OTT on your flatmates part. I found when living with my last flat mate that if plates weren't washed or whatever, if I just did it for him rather than just leaving it there, he usually returned the favor. I mean it only takes 5 minutes at most to wash up everything after a dinner.

Firetrap

Firetrap wrote: »

Anal? Jesus wept. So it's OK to never have room to put anything on the draining board when you wash up because your housemate NEVER clears away their stuff even when they're dry? In fact this person used to let things accumulate on the draining board and the work top. Or that you have to always take their stuff off the clothes horse because they leave them there for days and days on end. It's not as if these are big chores but when you find yourself frequently having to clear up other peoples' stuff before you can do your thing, that is getting into taking the piss territory.

I don't mind washing up a few things at the sink that belong to other people or a few things lying around but when they are messy and their messiness impinges on your life on a constant basis, that is another thing.

Welcome to the world of different opinions. Yes, I think you sound anal. I'm not saying it it isn't a bit annoying to have to clear away someone's clean dishes, but on a list of 'annoying flatmate qualities', that would be way down there at the bottom. I would bet that most people wouldn't even consider it a problem. In any house I've ever lived in, the dishes sat on the draining rack and we just took them directly from there to reuse, or if we really needed the space, we put away the clean dishes. A 30 second job. It sounds like you've been very lucky with flatmates if you get bothered by something so trivial. I'd be utterly bemused to find out someone considered me messy because I'd left clean dishes out for longer than a couple of hours. I'm out of the house for most of the day and evening - would you expect me to come home in the middle of my day to move my dishes into the press?

The clothes on the clothes horse thing is slightly more annoying, but again, not a huge deal. It wouldn't be something I'd feel the need to have a 'talk' about, I'd just move them onto the table or wherever, another 30 second job. I understand your point that you shouldn't have to, but sharing requires compromise. People are busy, they have lives, you can't get annoyed and hold it against someone if they didn't manage to move their clothes before they left for the weekend, or forgot to clear away their clean dishes. I'm sure you do things your flatmates find annoying. We all do. You have to find a middle ground when you live with strangers and tolerate a lot of things that would bother you if you lived alone. You can't expect everyone to live by your rules. Once the dishes get done within a day, the washing machine isn't being hogged, I'm able to get 8 hours sleep without being disturbed by noise and the house (esp kitchen and bathroom) is kept reasonably clean and hygienic, I'm happy. The place is never as clean as I'm used to when I live alone, but that's normal when you have different people sharing.

LegacyUser

What makes you think he'll read the note? I had a flatmate leave my a twelve page note written in red ink because she couldn't talk to me face to face (she was the untidy one, just like in this case, but I'm not anally retentive, she was just a pig) anyway I never read her twelve pages of self-indulgent tripe. Your housemate will likely do the same.

Bob_Harris

gubbie wrote: »

Oh and I want to point out he's a first year in college... I know I wasn't complaining about the dishes when I was in first year. Too busy getting drunk like all the other first years.

Jasus, you're some mad whore!!!!!??!!!!

JuliusCaesar

Get him a goodbye present:

very useful for notes from flatmates

dublin 16 lad

To be honest leaving dishes and plates around in shared accomadation is very selfish and annoying. Leaving notes around would also be very annoying

Moral of story- Clean up after yourself and don't give your idiot housemate any excuses to leave notes. PS. don't be stupid and leave him a letter, you're not a kid anymore