Speeding up a track to shorten it

harmacist

This may be a laughably bad question but I have a song I'm looking to shorten without chopping bit out. I was hoping to remix it without the vocals, speed it up and re-record the vocals up a couple of keys. The standalone digital recorder I use doesn't allow it but does any one know if I'd be able to get it done in a "proper" studio??? I'm hoping to cut about 15% off the length of the tune btw but to rerecord the whole thing would just take to long! Thanks in advance lads!

danjokill

shouldnt be an issue ..... U got the multi??? Give me a pm .

PaulBrewer

I think it will be a big issue.

Cutting 15% off it's length equates to upwards of 30 seconds on a 3.5 minute song !

I'd guess there'll be significant artifacting (is that a word) with even the best processing .

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think it will be a big issue.

Cutting 15% off it's length equates to upwards of 30 seconds on a 3.5 minute song !

I'd guess there'll be significant artifacting (is that a word) with even the best processing .

Most software that shortens or lengthens stuff these days, automatically corrects for artefacting. The way my old Roland sampler does it, is offer you six different variations of the algorithm, each will work to varying degrees but it's not automatic and nowhere near perfect.

But something like Ableton will let you drag and drop a file into a track and it will stretch it to the bpm you have set. keeping it in tune. It's very forgiving. Shortening a 120bpm track by 15%, you would bring the bpm to 138. You might get away with it. It'll definitely sound much different and faster.

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

automatically corrects for artefacting. .

There's one artifact right there ...

PMI

Sounds a bit much, ive done it a few times but only on a 20 second add or something, never on a 3 min track it will probably be a bit distructive to the audio.

if its 16 bit I wouldnt go near it at all, so check that too....

danjokill

still think i could do it ....... a bit of sweat and hard work go's a long way with these things (but it's do'able) ...... i've had to do a few radio mixes like this ... Ableton ... mmh ... maybe never tried it for this ..... i've found cubase is handy for this type of work anything with time strenching its seemed less distructive to the audio than others (tools and earlier versions of logic) ...... also agree if it's a 3.30 track it will be hard to shave 30 sec off it .... ...... and as per the previous poster 24Bit will be a must ....

Bluebirdstudios

I'm looking for a solution to this problem myself . Not to the same degree of speed up ! Have tried Soundtoys speed and all the digidesign stuff. Also had a uk studio try it for me with time stretch gear they had - no success. My recent experience is that this type of work is very program dependant and maintaining perfect pitch is the holy grail of these time stretch programs.

Like Paul I think this might prove to be too much time to shave off without getting into the wobbly world and horrible artifacts on some instruments.

If you do get success , please let me know how you did it - I'm still looking for a solution ?

harmacist

Its 3.30 to 3 mins I was looking for alright!Its currently 132bpm which would equate to 151bpm? for 3 mins I think. And its 16bit as well so it would appear "Bugger" is the order of the day.... Ah well. Its just the idea of recording the whole blinkin thing again.......!

PaulBrewer

harmacist wrote: »

Its 3.30 to 3 mins I was looking for alright!Its currently 132bpm which would equate to 151bpm? for 3 mins I think. And its 16bit as well so it would appear "Bugger" is the order of the day.... Ah well. Its just the idea of recording the whole blinkin thing again.......!

The whole time stretch thing is really in it's infancy.

To be elasticating an odd tambourine part or mono synth line might work but the idea of doing a whole multi track or even a mix is , with what I've heard (including Ableton) is a step too far at the moment.

Even Protools elastic audio pitch thingy promo video is mentioned in terms of 'trying out things' as opposed to a full function tool.

If you can wait 3 years it'll probably be sorted

danjokill

Sorry, dude would love to help but based on this info would be very hard!!! i stand corrected

harmacist

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The whole time stretch thing is really in it's infancy.

To be elasticating an odd tambourine part or mono synth line might work but the idea of doing a whole multi track or even a mix is , with what I've heard (including Ableton) is a step too far at the moment.

Even Protools elastic audio pitch thingy promo video is mentioned in terms of 'trying out things' as opposed to a full function tool.

If you can wait 3 years it'll probably be sorted

The speed I work at it'll still probably be quicker than re-recording it!
:rolleyes:

madtheory

Elastic audio is far from the best algorithm out there, even Ableton is better than that. Serato Pitch'n'Time seems to be the best, I had excellent results with that for a pitch shifting job on a fiddle part recently, it was better than Melodyne. It did change the sound of the fiddle slightly, made it a tad harsher. Once it was eq'd and sitting in the mix that was not noticeable, although nothing else in the mix was pitch shifted.

So if it's that good at pitch, it's probably as good with time.

Best to process individual tracks in the multi, rather than the whole mix. Worth a try anyway.

PMI

If its a radio edit I reckon you could do it another way ie: is there a bit too much self indulgent intro?!? 1/2 the 2nd verse?? maybe look at some of them options..... if it radio they are gonna chat/ignore the last chorus anyway

Even if you can shave 20 secs then you can time stretch and have more luck

Neurojazz

Radio edits are great fun - there are usually loads of spots you can take out sections seamlessly, it's just scary the first few times.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

Elastic audio is far from the best algorithm out there, even Ableton is better than that. Serato Pitch'n'Time seems to be the best, I had excellent results with that for a pitch shifting job on a fiddle part recently, it was better than Melodyne. It did change the sound of the fiddle slightly, made it a tad harsher. Once it was eq'd and sitting in the mix that was not noticeable, although nothing else in the mix was pitch shifted.

So if it's that good at pitch, it's probably as good with time.

Best to process individual tracks in the multi, rather than the whole mix. Worth a try anyway.

Yes I know Serato P+T is very popular in Nashville , where 'perfection' is often the goal.

As you say a pitch shifted part hidden in a mix the man on the galloping horse will never hear ... but a whole multi ? No Sirree Bob.

madtheory

PaulBrewer wrote: »

As you say a pitch shifted part hidden in a mix the man on the galloping horse will never hear ... but a whole multi ? No Sirree Bob.

That depends, and you won't know til you try I think. From experience, way back in 2001 I used Prosoniq Time Factory on a multitrack to speed it up by 10bpm IIRC. No artifacts.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

That depends, and you won't know til you try I think. From experience, way back in 2001 I used Prosoniq Time Factory on a multitrack to speed it up by 10bpm IIRC. No artifacts.

They have demos here -

http://www.prosoniq.com/editing-products/timefactory-2/

Seziertisch

A good tape machine would probably do it for you, though shaving off that much of the track will require a fair bit of a speed up.

PaulBrewer

Seziertisch wrote: »

A good tape machine would probably do it for you, though shaving off that much of the track will require a fair bit of a speed up.

15%? are ya jokin ? Get outta da garden ! Now!!

Seziertisch

PaulBrewer wrote: »

15%? are ya jokin ? Get outta da garden ! Now!!

If you doubled the speed of it, I'm sure no one would notice it....

But back to the original poster, the best way to go about doing this is to either a. rerecord or b. edit out some stuff. Anything else is just messing because you probably won't like the results.

Also, Harmacist, why the rerecord? Radio play?

madtheory

Why would you use a tape machine? Varispeed digitally instead, same result. Chipmunks. You're joking, right?

Seziertisch

madtheory wrote: »

Why would you use a tape machine? Varispeed digitally instead, same result. Chipmunks. You're joking, right?

I've speeded up whole tracks (sans vocals) before with a tape machine and gotten good results. That said the pitch shift was at most a semitone. It gives the performances a nice lively edge, plus the tape effect glues things together. Faster speeds completely change the envelope of notes and the feel of performances, it can sound quite cool on individual tracks but on a whole mix meeeeaaaggghhh.

I'm still not sure why the above poster wants to do it. The 3-minute rule for radio play no longer applies (Thanks to Bohemian Rhapsody there on that one). If someone likes your music the fact that it is 30 seconds too long won't be an issue (though having 30 seconds of filler in the middle might be). At 3 minutes its unlikely that its for use in a radio or TV commercial. If its for use on a soundtrack then considering editing out something in the middle (though in most cases with soundtracks there is ever only a bit of a song used).

PaulBrewer

Seziertisch wrote: »

IAnything else is just messing because you probably won't like the results.

.

tweeky

OP, If you have a mac the program Audacity is free and can change speed in percent and you will hear the results for yourself. Logic or ProTools will "varispeed" it also. Just do it!

harmacist

Seziertisch wrote: »

If you doubled the speed of it, I'm sure no one would notice it....

But back to the original poster, the best way to go about doing this is to either a. rerecord or b. edit out some stuff. Anything else is just messing because you probably won't like the results.

Also, Harmacist, why the rerecord? Radio play?

Its for an RTE competition that stipulates a 3 minute maximum!
I tried removing different bits of the tune but the song loses something (not just 30-odd seconds) as a result.

harmacist

tweeky wrote: »

OP, If you have a mac the program Audacity is free and can change speed in percent and you will hear the results for yourself. Logic or ProTools will "varispeed" it also. Just do it!

Cheers but no mac, no protools, no logic! Just a digital multitracker. I'd happily pay for lower end studio to have a twiddle if it was likely to work but the consensus seems to be it wouldn't cut the musical mustard...

Dublin_Gunner

tweeky wrote: »

OP, If you have a mac the program Audacity is free and can change speed in percent and you will hear the results for yourself. Logic or ProTools will "varispeed" it also. Just do it!

Audacity is NOT Mac exclusive
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

I use it regularly on both PC and Mac. Great little program.

You could even edit the track if you're very careful and remove the 15% yourself with it. (rather than messing with speeding it up etc)