Computer Crime/Forensics Jobs with Gardaí

Potency

Hey,
I've done some searches and haven't come up with anything. I'm wondering what type of jobs are available to do with computers/technology with the Gardai (forensics etc). What are the requirements and how many of these positions are there? I really can't find any info about this type of thing with the Gardai

cushtac

Join the Gardaí and wait for the appropriate course to come up.

Irish_polizei

Potency wrote: »

Hey,
I've done some searches and haven't come up with anything. I'm wondering what type of jobs are available to do with computers/technology with the Gardai (forensics etc). What are the requirements and how many of these positions are there? I really can't find any info about this type of thing with the Gardai

The CCU is a sub section of GBFI(Fraud squad) and the chances of a position coming up within the next few years are quite slim. :P But the CCIU deals with the computer reated ends of crime whether it be murders, internet fraud >Phishing >Indecent images etc etc. I personally have completed a degree in Computer Security and Digital forensics In LYIT, great college and course! And having a degree without a doubt will help you also in getting here to the CCIU!

Dermot Illogical

Potency wrote: »

Hey,
I've done some searches and haven't come up with anything. I'm wondering what type of jobs are available to do with computers/technology with the Gardai (forensics etc). What are the requirements and how many of these positions are there? I really can't find any info about this type of thing with the Gardai

Computer Forensics are handled internally in AGS, so unless you sign your life away there's no way into that area. There are IT jobs (development, sys admin, dba work etc) available to civilians in An Garda Siochana, mostly through the larger consultancy companies. Some of this work is also handled internally but the trend has been to outsource.
If Computer Forensics is an area you're specifically interested in then there is similar work available in the private sector (without the low pay). The IT security sector is making ever-increasing use of computer forensics technology and techniques due, in part, to corporate oversight legislation. There are a number of Irish companies employing staff specifically for computer forensic work. A google search should give you an idea of what's out there.
The UCD School of Computer Science & Informatics is a good starting point if you're interested in qualifications as they are very strong in this area. If I recall correctly one of the national papers ran a front page ad last year for a CF course, so try search Irish Times Training or it's Indo equivalent. Open University have online courses if that's your thing..

Ian Beale

If your looking for a dedicated 3 year comp forensics course, Waterford institute of technology run one http://www.wit.ie/StudyatWIT/UndergraduateCourses/Science/BScHonsinComputerForensics-WD161/

DanGlee

So I'm confused here? One poster says AGS handle it, but another poster says its CCIU and its civilian?

Who is correct? Can civilians get into the Computer Forensics team with the Garda? I would defo be looking to join, but its very hard to find any information about this on the web, I've searched all sorts from computer forensics, CCIU to High Tech Crime Unit, I've been on publicjobs.ie via the garda website, there is seriously no information out there about how to join them!

Dermot Illogical

DanGlee wrote: »

So I'm confused here? One poster says AGS handle it, but another poster says its CCIU and its civilian?

Who is correct? Can civilians get into the Computer Forensics team with the Garda? I would defo be looking to join, but its very hard to find any information about this on the web, I've searched all sorts from computer forensics, CCIU to High Tech Crime Unit, I've been on publicjobs.ie via the garda website, there is seriously no information out there about how to join them!

There are no civilians in Garda CCIU.

DanGlee

There are no civilians in Garda CCIU.

RT66, I'm not saying your not right, but I don't know your background (you could be a garda for all I know) But I am a member of a forensics forum and I posted the same question and I was told the opposite!

Civvies are employed in the garda forensics?

Is there any garda on here who can clear this up? I have a CV sitting, ready to be posted... I needs a job people!

klong

DanGlee wrote: »

RT66, I'm not saying your not right, but I don't know your background (you could be a garda for all I know) But I am a member of a forensics forum and I posted the same question and I was told the opposite!

Civvies are employed in the garda forensics?

Is there any garda on here who can clear this up? I have a CV sitting, ready to be posted... I needs a job people!

If there was a civvie job going wouldn't it be posted on publicjobs.ie?

Dermot Illogical

DanGlee wrote: »

Is there any garda on here who can clear this up? I have a CV sitting, ready to be posted... I needs a job people!

That'll be me again , and my background is computer forensics. You were misinformed on the other forum I'm afraid..

DanGlee

Thats kinda crap!

Whats wrong with employing civilians into these type of jobs, than having to go through the whole AGS training and being on the street for a garda for years before moving into one of these roles? Surely you would need upto date skills that you may not get working as a garda for years, yet people have these IT skills from college or other jobs that could be used immediately in these roles for the police?

I know in the UK they take on civilians into these roles?

Tis a shame, cos I have a Masters in Computer Forensics thats basically going to waste within Ireland!!!!

Dermot Illogical

A CF Masters degree is more or less base level for the Gardai in this area.
Investigative experience and knowledge of court procedure, legislation etc. is also important. That's where the years doing other police work comes in.
In Ireland it's a much broader role than in the UK. That may well change in the future, but no sign at the moment.

DonnieBrasco

RT66 wrote: »

A CF Masters degree is more or less base level for the Gardai in this area.
Investigative experience and knowledge of court procedure, legislation etc. is also important. That's where the years doing other police work comes in.
In Ireland it's a much broader role than in the UK. That may well change in the future, but no sign at the moment.

it seems fair enough to me that (electronic) evidence gathering /investigation is only performed by gardai.

Irish_polizei

DanGlee wrote: »

Thats kinda crap!

Whats wrong with employing civilians into these type of jobs......etc..

Its because of the sensitive nature of the cases that are dealt with, (gangland related, paedophilia etc etc) as well as the level of classified information that is available in the job, which ordinarily, would not be allowed to be viewed by ordinary members of the public as such.

There aren't any civilians in the technical beareau either to the best of my knowledge, but there are a few civilians based in the forensics lab.

OP, I have a feeling your question that you asked has been answered, if you've any more questions just give us a PM.:)

DanGlee

A CF Masters degree is more or less base level for the Gardai in this area.

I disagree with this, a Masters degree is more than enough. Being able to give evidence and stand up in court is something you will learn. I don't want to question how many garda have Masters in this field, but if its a case of coming through the ranks to get there, surely having experience in this field would be paramount. AFAIK in the UK the courts are making it mandatory (now or coming soon) to have at Least a Msc in this field due to the need for the person giving evidence to be proclaimed a "profession/experienced" in comp forensics!
I think somebody is taking a big risk to join the garda via the normal route just in the "off chance" a job might come up in within the computer forensics department, and I'm sure you need to do like 2 / 3 years on the beat before you would even be looked at!

I know somebody like myself, who's 5ft 6", 9st would either not be let in, or thrown into ballymun and be fecked within 10 minutes!!!! :eek:

it seems fair enough to me that (electronic) evidence gathering /investigation is only performed by gardai.

and this

Its because of the sensitive nature of the cases that are dealt with, (gangland related, paedophilia etc etc) as well as the level of classified information that is available in the job, which ordinarily, would not be allowed to be viewed by ordinary members of the public as such.

There aren't any civilians in the technical beareau either to the best of my knowledge, but there are a few civilians based in the forensics lab.

Thats, pardon my french bullsh*t! In the UK we have something called 'security clearance' for civilians, I'm sure they can do this here too. So although they are civilians, they are not just soap getting access to random information. As for the type of images people may see, well... arn't all cops, garda normal human beings too... I'm sure some rookie straight out of templemore felt sick, upset and maybe a little disturbed the first time he saw his first dead body, child etc... So its something you can either do or no do. And I also know in the UK they have regular physc for people that have to view these kinds of things.

Sorry about the little rant, I just think its really closing the door on a lot of educated people!

Irish_polizei

DanGlee wrote: »

Thats, pardon my french bullsh*t! In the UK we have something called 'security clearance' for civilians, I'm sure they can do this here too. So .....

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately its the reality here, there is no real need for civilians in the CCIU anyway. There are many gardai that I know personally that have obtained degrees in Computer security and digital forensics and are waiting for another position to pop up. So thats the be all and end all of that....

Hooch

Posters are part right....and part wrong.

All persons in Computer crime are members of AGS apart from civilian clerical staff which have no interaction with the criminal side of things.

Not all in the Technical Bureau are members of AGS although 90% of them are.

There are NO Gardaí in the State Forensic Science Lab which is what the forensic forum was most likely on about. It is all state employees who are impartial civilians.....again no Gardaí

See here for info on FSL.

Irish_polizei

nice guy always wrote: »

All persons in Computer crime are members of AGS apart from civilian clerical staff which have no interaction with the criminal side of things.

Not all in the Technical Bureau are members of AGS although 90% of them are.

That basically what I have been saying throughout (albeit not worded very well:o)

And I was assuming throughout that Danglee was inquiring about a job as a specialist and not a civvie.

DanGlee

And I was assuming throughout that Danglee was inquiring about a job as a specialist and not a civvie.

Yep, thats the one

OK, so, just to keep this topic alive, as its hard to meet people in this area who have the knowledge in Ireland.

There is nothing I can do regarding getting employment with the Garda (apart from signing up with AGS and at 5ft 6" I'd probably fail right off the bat!

Do any you know where I would start to get into this field of work (Computer Forensics) within Ireland. As mentioned I have a Masters in it and want to put it to use. On top of that I have 9+ years I.T experience in varying roles.

I am finding it very hard to not only get a job, but just finding companies that deal in this area within Ireland.

Please done mention Espion or Sonrai either... I tried them, they not taking anybody on!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks
DG.

Irish_polizei

DanGlee wrote: »

Yep, thats the one

OK, so, just to keep ..............
Please done mention Espion or Sonrai either... I tried them, they not taking anybody on!

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks
DG.

Does your qualifications include computer security as well as digital forensics if ya dont mind me asking? And been lanky is no longer a requirement to join An Garda Síochana. There was a lad in my class who was fairly small.. (well standing beside me at 6ft 4 he was....)


I found a few jobs for ya already Computer security specialist Co.Dooblin...:D googles your friend, remember that

DanGlee

There were some elements of it.

The course covered:

Forensics (inc Irish/UK and US law - ACPO etc)

Data Comms & Networks - how the networks hang, how data is transfered (all low level stuff) we worked with WireShark to examine packets on the network etc

Encryption & Security - various type of encryption & decryption techniques, public, private keys, hashing, all that good stuff

And finally, Project Management and Business stuff! (the not so technical side of things, but interesting none the less!)

This is a very high overview of a few thigns covered, it was an MSc over 2 years (PT, one year full time) so there was an awful lot more and plenty of homework!

I have started looking in the UK, Canada, Oz/Nz for jobs, but although its not new, its still a sector taking off I think, esp since only a few places off courses that specialise in it, but they seem to be becoming more popular!

Irish_polizei

DanGlee wrote: »

There were some elements of it.

The course covered:

Forensics (inc Irish/UK and US law - ACPO etc)

Data Comms & Networks - how the networks hang, how data is transfered (all low level stuff) we worked with WireShark to examine packets on the network etc

Encryption & Security - various type of encryption & decryption techniques, public, private keys, hashing, all that good stuff

And finally, Project Management and Business stuff! (the not so technical side of things, but interesting none the less!)

This is a very high overview of a few thigns covered, it was an MSc over 2 years (PT, one year full time) so there was an awful lot more and plenty of homework!

I have started looking in the UK, Canada, Oz/Nz for jobs, but although its not new, its still a sector taking off I think, esp since only a few places off courses that specialise in it, but they seem to be becoming more popular!

Nice, Youre more qualified then me :PI just have an Honours bachelor degree in Comp Sec and Digital Forensics, i updated my last post btw with job positions just incase ya didnt see it.

Dermot Illogical

DanGlee wrote: »

RT66, I'm not saying your not right, but I don't know your background (you could be a garda for all I know) But I am a member of a forensics forum and I posted the same question and I was told the opposite!

I responded on the other forum of which you speak. I'm a little more comfortable with talking about it there.

xxXchocolate puppyXxx

hi! just wondering did you manage to get a job with the computer forensics masters? I'm considering doing the course want to get into the gardaí or if not then some kind of crime researching and policy making. Its between Msc computer forensics and Msc criminology... the computer forensics course is way cheaper (because its funded) so im kind of leaning toward that...

DanGlee

Hey,
Dunno if your aiming the question at me, but I did get a job in forensics from my Masters, however it is in the UK, not Ireland. As I'm sure you are aware, there are very little jobs in Ireland at the mo and esp in forensics from what I can see.
From the previous posts on this subject, I doubt the gardai have changed their ways and still insist on having Garda trained officers only and not civilian staff (even vetted ones) working for them. Which personally from my experience now in forensics, LE will have small hi-tech outfits and backlogs of work, and I can only assume that there is a small outfit in Dublin that is possibly struggling with all the mobile phones, laptops and any other media device they seize from suspects! But hey, who am i to tell the garda how to best organise themselves to get cheaper staff, quicker turnaround on cases and wider spread forensic deployment across the country!!!!

Sorry, off on one there! The forensics is a good course and if you get into it it's great if your a techy nerd and love seeing how things work, taking things apart and understanding the inside and outs of computers, binary etc. If not, then maybe consider the criminology side, that I'm sure is really interesting too, seeing how's the mind works (all geeky stuff again)

Best of luck!

MagicSean

I believe CAB use civilian analysts. Probably due to the fact that they are a joint departmental body.