Dampness in Apartment

cathal79

was hoping someone could help with a query. I moved into my new apartment in August 2007 and ever since I have had issues around dampness in the master bedroom and en-suite.

I had been in contact with someone in Homebond in late 2007 and was advised to heat the apartment well and leave windows open to ventelate and remove dampness which could have been around since construction.

I have since bought a de-humidifyer which has helped but I still have trouble with dampness in the wardrobes. Nothing seems to be able to stop this. I have gone so far as not using the en-suite shower to avoid steam entering the bedroom. I now only use the main bathroom. The problem is still there.

I would always leave the windows open during the day (except in the current cold spell).

I have done my own bit of investigation into the cause of dampness and have found that it is commonly caused where condensation travels to the coldest part of the home. In this case it is the wall where my wardrobes are located. This wall backs onto the staircase for the apartment building which is always quite cold. The wall has no insulation whatsoever.

I am wondering should the builder have insulated this wall as it is very much an external wall albeit within the building? Do you think if this wall was insulated well that it would resolve the problem? The room gets cold very quickly as soon as the convecter heater switches off. The external wall to the front of the apartment feels much warmer than the wall to the stair well.

Your help would be much appreciated.

gillad

"Do you think if this wall was insulated well that it would resolve the problem?"
YES.This wall is probably a 9 inch solid wall with no insulation and is drawing the heat out of the room.It can easily be insulated using insulated slabs and skimming over

eoghan.geraghty

A lot of apartments would suffer from this problem as walls to common spaces were not treated as external.
This area is supposed to be heated, however the management/maintenance company usually turn off the electric panel heaters in hall areas.
Take a look and see what type of heating is provided in the common areas and make sure it's turned on, this will help.

Aside from that, remove the wardrobe, fix some 50mm thermal board to the wall, then refit the wardrobe.

MicktheMan

I would advise the OP to first understand whats going on in the apartment before blindly applying internal insulation to the "problem" wall.

Do other apartment owners have the same/similar problem. If yes then ye should approach the management company to either improve the heating in the common areas or insulate the apartment walls on the common area side (i.e. outside the apartment), if possible.
Why do this instead of insulating internally? 2 reasons.
1. it does not impact the square footage of your apartment &
2. more importantly, it moves the dew point of the wall towards the common area rather than into the apartment. This is important because if insulated slab is applied inside the apartment, you are more or less guaranteed to get mould forming at the back of the insulation.

As well as the insulation/heating changes it is also beneficial to better ventilate the apartment, remove steam at the point of generation, never dry clothes inside etc. What you should be aiming to do is to reduce the relative humidity of the air in the apartment as well as improving the thermal characteristics.
I would hazard a guess that you are not alone with this problem and this latest prolonged cold snap has exasperated the problem.
Mick

cathal79

Thanks all for your replies.

The wardrobes are built in. I installed them about a year after I moved in. It's annoying me now as the bed is literally wet around the edges.

The common areas have no heating system at all hence they are almost as cold as outside.

Do you think I would have a case against the builder to get the common area walls insulated? Is it something that would have been in the building regulations? I will check with my neighbours to see if they have the same issue.

There is no steam being raised anywhere near the room. The bathroom has an extractor fan which is always used. I've even stopped using the ensuite shower as I thought this might have caused it. No joy there.

I'm worried it may affect the health of myself, my wife and 1yr old daughter.

I keep the room warm when we are at home and windows open when no there. Window vents are always open.

Clothes aren't dried on an airer. I use a condenser tumble dryer in winter and dry outside in summer (albeit the stupid managment company rules say you can't).

I really need to get this sorted. The bed and out clothes are getting destroyed.

Thanks.

Poor Uncle Tom

We can't discuss possible legal cases here, so don't ask if you have a case with the builder, you will likely get someone who responds banned.

Which floor is the apartment on? If it's ground floor are your ceilings insulated? Please check into the circulation space not having a heat source, it is meant to have if the walls around it are not insulated.

cathal79

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

We can't discuss possible legal cases here, so don't ask if you have a case with the builder, you will likely get someone who responds banned.

Which floor is the apartment on? If it's ground floor are your ceilings insulated? Please check into the circulation space not having a heat source, it is meant to have if the walls around it are not insulated.

Hi,
I'm don't mean a legal "case" against the builder. I just mean should I chase them to fix the problem.

The apartment is 2nd floor. There is one apart below me and one above. It's hard to get to ask the neighbours as they aren't in that often.

Ceilings aren't insulated at all. There is a suspended plasterboard ceiling, above that it is just mass concrete.

Homebond emailed me today to say I should contact the local authority responsible for building regulations. He is back in work on Thursday so hopefully I can get some assistance from him.

Does anyone know for fact if the wall should have been insulated given that there is no heating in the common area on the far side of the wall.

I have my de-humidifyer back in action now but I don't feel this is right. The problem shouldn't be happening in the first place.

I am fully aware how condensation is created from everyday things like showering, cooking etc. and believe me the apartment is very well ventelated in that we keep windows open etc. The external walls don't have an air vent. The only constant air vent is a small slot in the top of each window in the apartment. A lot of condensation also builds up on the windows.

Thanks again.

Cathal

Irish Energy

Hello, <SNIP> i see this problem every day. The wall should have been insulated between your apartment and the common area as most common area's do not have heating systems at all and are therefore considered to be draught lobbies which means there are slightly better than outside but not much and therefore the wall should be insulated to almost the same standard as the external walls of your apartment. To give a proper solution i would need to see the problem and could advise on what walls etc would need to be insulated but you may be able to work this out from the advice given above.

In regards to getting the builder to fix it, most builders that built apartments and big developments have disappeared and you are unlikely to get anyone back without it costing you. The homebond guarantee doesn’t really cover a whole lot to be honest it’s a bit of a cod in my opinion. A builder just has to build a house/apartment block in a certain way to get the homebond guarantee (and also be a member of homebond which can be arranged for an annual fee) and the certain way is generally just the same or slightly better than the minimum building standards.

At present there are grants that could aid you in fixing the problem, €2,500 in the case of internal dry lining and you may only need to do a few walls and therefore the grant will more than cover the cost. <SNIP>

Cheers

Barry

cathal79

Hi Barry,

I was speaking to someone in SEI and they said the insulation grant is noly available to homes built prior to 2006. Mine was completed in 2007.

I spoke to someone in the buildings section of the Dept of Environment and they too confirmed that the wall should be insulated.

I have also contacted the builder who is sending his foreman to look at the problem tomorrow so hopefully I will get a good result.

Thanks for your help.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

cathal79

That document refers more that the dampness is caused by the person living in the home. I am fully aware how dampness and condensation is caused.

In my case it is simply that the wall should have been insulated and it hasn't. I also think the walls should have a proper air vent as the ones in the windows aren't much use.

I'll see how tomorrow goes with the builder.

cathal79

Ok so as expected the builder tried to pawn me off. He was basically saying that the wall didn't have to be insulated and spoke about putting a wall air vent into the room which may help.

He said to keep using my dehumidifyer for another week to see if that improves the condensation. I can't see why I should have to use a dehumidifyer as I've never had to use one anywhere else I've lived.

Does anyone know for fact or can point me in the right direction to information on insulation regulations for apartments built in 2007.

I need to have my facts right before I can argue the point. I spoke to a neighbour in a seperate apartment block (built by the same builder) who had a similar issue and after 2 years and getting a solicitor involved the builder recently insulated all internal walls to common areas and redecorated their apartment.

Your help is much appreciated. I've tried to look at www.environ.ie but can't make head nor tail of it.

Thanks.

Irish Energy

Cathal,

I will point you in the right direction and give you the exact lines in the building regs when i get a chance im just up to my eyes at the moment but i work in this field and i can assure you that it should have been insulated. I work for an insulation contractor and know all about this type of thing. and you should not have to use a dehumidifier at all in a new apartment. The only reason you should have to use one is if you have just had a burst pipe or something like this, not to sort out a damp/condensation problem that is not of your own making. I will tell you exactly where to find the info in the regs on friday when i get a chance to find the page number and that.

Cheers,

Barry

cathal79

Hi Barry,

I'd appreciate that. I spoke with the building control officer this morning and he's been telling me the wall didn't have to be insulated.

I find this hard to believe considering how cold the common area stairwell is.

Thanks

Cathal