Garage insulation and condensation prevention?

quattro777

Any builders on here?
I'm about to start building a garage and looking for some advice.
It will have a steel girder frame with the roof and 2/3 of the sides done with insulated non-drip sheeting and a block wall overlapping it.
Should you have air vents or be aiming to seal it as tight as possible?
Is there anything I'm forgetting about?

Thanks.

Lauder

Iv nearly finished my improving my garage. Its block built and timber roof. Iv insulated and dry-lined to ceiling. Sealed the block walls (painted it with normal undercoat and white gloss paint. Iv figured il have a enough ventilation with the gaps under the garage door and interior door. no need for vents.

All iv got to do now is figure out what to do with the floor, want either very durable floor paint or a rubbery surface (like a car showroom). Any suggestions?

Also need to back lane tarmac-ed. Need to find someone to do that aswell. So if anyone can recommend a someone to do this!

Best of luck with the new garage.

carchaeologist

Is it a good idea to have those plastic sheets in the roof to allow sunlight in,seems to make a diffence in some garages,lets sun in to heat up the place a bit and get rid of condensation during the day?

PanhardPL

quattro777 wrote: »

Any builders on here?
I'm about to start building a garage and looking for some advice.
It will have a steel girder frame with the roof and 2/3 of the sides done with insulated non-drip sheeting and a block wall overlapping it.
Should you have air vents or be aiming to seal it as tight as possible?
Is there anything I'm forgetting about?

Thanks.

Go for Kingspan double cladding for both roof and sides, with some kingspan skylights and you will have a powder dry garage.

galwaytt

...OP what is your roof (going) to be made of ?

My existing garage has a 100 composite roof panel in Mutibeam purlin's -100mm of mineral wool insulation in between top and bottom sheets (from www.newellroofing.com ), and cavity block insulation - pumped with bead. Our factory at work is similar, and the cavity pumping makes a huge difference.

Floor ? Well, I've had the concrete, both plain & painted, but for me now, there's only one - tiles. I've tiled my new garage in porcelain - cost me about €300 -and is ultra-hard wearing and easy to keep, and is a job for life. Copes with trolley jacks and axles stands no problem - check out the big main dealerships, it's what they have.


Can I throw in one thing on this, as well - floor levels. If you haven't got them in yet, think about it - I aimed for a 15mm lip between floor level and path outside - no ramps. There's nothing more annoying than garage with a huge ramp at the door. Makes the doorway unusable if the car is halfway in/out, pushing in/out, etc.

The other thing is your doors. In the pic attached you'll see two doors, both 9' wide iirc...........annoying as hell - even though they're electric (a must, imho... ). My new one has a single 16' wide one and is infinately better. The pillar is annoying in the old one, and it's only a matter of time before you catch a door on it..........and mine is 1' wider than the norm ! And buy an insulated door - they have proper bulb and reveal seals, and keep whatever heat you have in the garage, in !

quattro777

The garage is 63' by 36'

Roof will and walls be the kingspan insulated sheeting with a 9' high block wall.

Lauder

galwayTT,

As a matter of interest, where did you source those tiles?, they look well. €300 sounds very cheap.

Also, what is that stuff you have as edging between the floor and the walls? Like a skirting board?

bugsntinas

carchaeologist wrote: »

Is it a good idea to have those plastic sheets in the roof to allow sunlight in,seems to make a diffence in some garages,lets sun in to heat up the place a bit and get rid of condensation during the day?

i've got corrugated plastic on about 1/4 of my roof and it's
like niagra falls at the moment:(.it's great in the summer though:)

galwaytt

Lauder wrote: »

galwayTT,

As a matter of interest, where did you source those tiles?, they look well. €300 sounds very cheap.

Also, what is that stuff you have as edging between the floor and the walls? Like a skirting board?

iirc, Rocca Tiles............that's the thing: some tiles like that ARE cheap, as they're a stock-in-trade for commercial use. The brick-brown coloured ones you see in a BeeEmm dealership workshop for instance, are cheap too. And there's always job-lots for sale. Classic Tiles in Galway a good source too.

Skirting? Nah - that's a 1/3-tile run up the wall Oh, and .........underfloor heating..:o

Fwiw, the 'old' garage I mentioned above is 40' x 25' with a mezzanine over half it. Now, working where I do, I'd build a new one completely different, and would avoid masonry completely, and use a timber-based system. But hey, that's just me - I hate cold garage's, and need mine to be comfy. Car's last much longer in there, too, and dry off as soon as you park them in there.

Am currently planning another one, and it'll be all wood-based, highly insulated (house spec).

galwaytt

carchaeologist wrote: »

Is it a good idea to have those plastic sheets in the roof to allow sunlight in,seems to make a diffence in some garages,lets sun in to heat up the place a bit and get rid of condensation during the day?

Short answer: no, not really.

As mentioned, they can condensate. And unless the garage is very big, you'd be better off buying windows.

This week's free tip : BEFORE you build, buy your windows. Go to any number of window suppliers, and see what unused windows they have. E.g. windows that were returned for wrong size etc (happens A LOT). You'll get them at a good price, and, tbh, size doesn't matter. Build your walls to suit them. That's what I did - got 2 windows and 1 door that way for.....€ 150 ? Or, take a look at anyone doing a resto on their house, and watch for any uPVC windows being removed - reuse them ! Sometimes they're free !

Back to the roof: in the scenario you describe, anything that lets heat in.......let's cold in, so go with a proper roof - either a proper double-skinned metal one of some sort, or a more traditional one, insulated (timber based). You're building should be designed to not condensate at all. My old one (the steel frame, posted above) doesn't, and it is unheated.

Big Nasty

I would also consider a dehumidifier for the garage.

Rust or Weld

I have a dehumidifier in my new steel garage 100 quid off ebay uk & can take 20 litres a day works a treat.
will however be insulating it later on this year was too late last year when it was erected just before xmas.

Lauder

galwaytt wrote: »

iirc, Rocca Tiles............that's the thing: some tiles like that ARE cheap, as they're a stock-in-trade for commercial use. The brick-brown coloured ones you see in a BeeEmm dealership workshop for instance, are cheap too. And there's always job-lots for sale. Classic Tiles in Galway a good source too.
.

Thanks for the info, definitely going to tile my garage floor now.

Do you need to go for a particular thickness floor tile or do standard floor tiles work? They will need to be strong enough to survive trolley jacks and the odd tool falling on them.

carchaeologist

Im going to be re-roofing my shed in the coming months as the old roof is fairly hanging. I have new sheets of that painted corrugated type roofing sheets bought since last year,large ones,but im wondering how can i stop the condensation dripping from these,is it a good idea to felt it underneath,or will that not work as it will be in close contact with the sheets?The existing shed structure is in good shape,so i wont be changing that.
Any ideas?

hi5

I've got that spray on foam insulation on the walls and roof in my garage it works great:) but looks ugly:(
Also have transparent panels in the roof,they do condensate and will drip down onto your car or the back of your neck:mad:

gn3dr

Well non-drip single skins roof have a type of spray on flock or felt on the inside - perhaps you could do something like this?

On this subject - I just got my concrete done for my shed last week and am now going to the next stage - pricing the aactual shed. I am going wth an all steel structure with cladding down to the ground - no blockwork. Ideally I'd love Kingspan insulated panels but $$$$$$$:(.

Any recommendations on here for good shed suppliers? I've gotten a few quotes from the usual places last year - Shanette, Smart sheds etc - there's a lot of variation in prices between them.

I've decided i want RSJ sturctured steel (the shed is quite large 24M X 7M). Cheapest price I have got for supplying and erecting was around 13K however there's a guy in Cavan / Meath who advertises in the Autotrader who quoted 6,600 + VAT for the kit + about 200-300 delivery to Kerry. I'd have to put it up myself or get someone to do it.

When I quote this price to other shed suppliers they tell me they can't even buy the materials for that price - are they spinning a line or what or is the cheaper prie due to low quality cladding (and how much would this really matter) I'm cautious about buying a kit because if there is a problem with it the supplier is gone.

Anyone have advice or similar experience?

quattro777

Around 13k erected is about right for that size of shed.

galwaytt

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I would also consider a dehumidifier for the garage.

Rust or Weld wrote: »

I have a dehumidifier in my new steel garage 100 quid off ebay uk & can take 20 litres a day works a treat.
will however be insulating it later on this year was too late last year when it was erected just before xmas.

No offence, just pointing out: If you have, or need, a dehumifier, it's because your garage is cold/damp. If you build it so it's not needed...........that'd be better.

6k? for a shed that size ? Thats' v.v. cheap.....I'd be looking at the quality of that, first...........

galwaytt

gn3dr wrote: »

I've decided i want RSJ sturctured steel (the shed is quite large 24M X 7M). Cheapest price I have got for supplying and erecting was around 13K however there's a guy in Cavan / Meath who advertises in the Autotrader who quoted 6,600 + VAT for the kit + about 200-300 delivery to Kerry. I'd have to put it up myself or get someone to do it.

When I quote this price to other shed suppliers they tell me they can't even buy the materials for that price - are they spinning a line or what or is the cheaper prie due to low quality cladding (and how much would this really matter) I'm cautious about buying a kit because if there is a problem with it the supplier is gone.

Anyone have advice or similar experience?

....initial thoughts: you're not getting an RSJ structure c/w insulated panels, for 6600......the cladding in some of those kits is very, very thin.......and marks easily. Blue850 on here bought a big Shannette one, so try PM-ing him.......

I've just quoted someone €18,145+ VAT for a fully finished, 8m x 4m, pitched-roof, insulated (house-spec) garage, complete with 2 x uPVC windows, 1 x pedestrian door and 1 x 7' x 8' 65mm insulated sectional door (electric). No cold, no damp, (no dehumidifier). I realise that spec is probably too high for some, but I'm trying to put your 6600 for something much larger, in context......

Btw - why does it have to be RSJ ?

yam1300

Hi All would appreciate any comments on the following;
Just had a 5x2m all metal shed installed in backyard as
additional storage.Have installed wiring for sockets,lights
are in place with all wiring "hidden".I plan to insulate with
25mm Xtratherm foil backed solid board. The metal sheeting
is like a flattened out "W" shape. My plan is to line the walls
with a light plastic sheeting,then install cut strips (4"x6') of
Xtratherm into the "gap" of the "w",then go over that with
a further sheet of Xtratherm then cover the insulation with
4mm or 6mm ply.The roof has an anti condensation panel
fitted-it's like very dense or compacted wool and it works
OK but I plan to cover this as well.I will include the door
as well as it's wider that a standard size door.
For the most part the walls will have 50mm and the roof
25mm.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated
Cheers
JG

gn3dr

galwaytt wrote: »

....initial thoughts: you're not getting an RSJ structure c/w insulated panels, for 6600......the cladding in some of those kits is very, very thin.......and marks easily. Blue850 on here bought a big Shannette one, so try PM-ing him.......

I've just quoted someone €18,145+ VAT for a fully finished, 8m x 4m, pitched-roof, insulated (house-spec) garage, complete with 2 x uPVC windows, 1 x pedestrian door and 1 x 7' x 8' 65mm insulated sectional door (electric). No cold, no damp, (no dehumidifier). I realise that spec is probably too high for some, but I'm trying to put your 6600 for something much larger, in context......

Btw - why does it have to be RSJ ?

That quote was for blasted and primed RSJ (7X3 or 4 I think) with single skin panels - not insulated.

Doesn't really have to be RSJ I guess but it seems a stronger structure to me. I'd like to put a mezzanine level in for part of the length as well.

Also thinking about large shelving etc so building adding to an RSJ structure seems like it might be easier.

kasper

yam try a breathable membrane instead of the plastic ,the plastic will keep in the moisture

yam1300

kasper wrote: »

yam try a breathable membrane instead of the plastic ,the plastic will keep in the moisture

Kasper THANKS for the quick reply,that sound's great,
could you put a brand name on the membrane.I will
presume it's something I could buy at say Heitons
or Brooks ??
Much appreciated
Cheers
JG

kasper

builders provides should be able to recomend just make sure it doesnt get put on inside out ,you wouldnt believe the mistakes even the most competent fitters make

yam1300

kasper wrote: »

builders provides should be able to recomend just make sure it doesnt get put on inside out ,you wouldnt believe the mistakes even the most competent fitters make

Cheers Kasper Thanks for that-would not have known there's
an inside/outside with a barrier.
In a sort of related topic do you know much about external insulation ??
I'm just "looking around" to see what would be best to apply to an
external wall which condesation forms on in the corners at times.
It's a solid block and is the only uninsulated wall in the house which
by the way is very easy to heat.It's a terraced house with a shared
access by archway to the backyard.I had a guy from an insulation
company look at the house and he quoted €12000 less the SEI
grant for the whole house.I asked him about just about the wall on it's
own and he mentioned something about having to get 70mm Kingspan board "if it was available as it's not approved at the moment".He did
say that Councils use that and it would be equivelent to a "finish" of
120/130mm.I need to keep the addition of insulation and render to a minimum as I use the archway to get bikes in and out.
I asked the guy would it be worth doing just the wall and first he said it would be useless but later brought up the 70mm board.
I cant see how it would be useless-I mean it's not a massive problem
inside the house but agree that it must have some insullation.
Any ideas
Thanks in advance much appreciated
JG

kasper

condensation usually means lack of ventilation ,if it is rising damp it would be different and could be one or more problems /ground height /lack of dpc etc hard to know without looking at the complete structure

yam1300

kasper wrote: »

condensation usually means lack of ventilation ,if it is rising damp it would be different and could be one or more problems /ground height /lack of dpc etc hard to know without looking at the complete structure

Hi Kasper Thanks again for the reply..had to run around and do the
Sunday morning parks and shopping with wife and kids.
Trying to do a "remote diagnosis" is very difficult and extra difficult
when trying from a just a verbal/text description- I appreciate
your comments in any event.
I am pretty certain it's not rising damp-I can "introduce" condensation
to the corners of the rooms by crancking up the heat,closing the doors
in the rooms and within a half an hour I've got moisture on the floor tiles
in the corner's if the outside temp is low.
So if you had to insulate one exterior wall what would your thoughts be ??
Cheers
JG

bazmac

hi,
Ive been in the garage door business 20yrs at this stage and condensation has always been a problem. At last the issue is being addressed with ventilated doors. Check out www.doorsgalore.ie where you'll see the henderson g60 up close. This door has a vented bottom rail which you can open/close. You will also see how well it seals as the pics and vids are good quality. Hope it helps a little !

kasper

i would probably fit thermal liner plaster boards to the inside of the room 35mm should be enough the sei would probably want 90mm but it is a major overkill ,at least then the heat isnt hitting a cold surface which is most likely causing the moisture

yam1300

kasper wrote: »

i would probably fit thermal liner plaster boards to the inside of the room 35mm should be enough the sei would probably want 90mm but it is a major overkill ,at least then the heat isnt hitting a cold surface which is most likely causing the moisture

Hi Kasper...Thanks for the reply much appreciated.Had a call today
from the Contactor,he said that he was in touch with the SEI regarding
70mm/130mm and access issues.He had already mentioned that unless
the insulation was 120/130mm no grant would be approved,but, he
said he rang them this morning and was told that in some cases this
would be an issue and they (SEI) would make allowances for this.
In other words they would "allow" this 70mm "board" in some circumstanses.
Thanks again
Cheers
JG

yam1300

bazmac wrote: »

hi,
Ive been in the garage door business 20yrs at this stage and condensation has always been a problem. At last the issue is being addressed with ventilated doors. Check out www.doorsgalore.ie where you'll see the henderson g60 up close. This door has a vented bottom rail which you can open/close. You will also see how well it seals as the pics and vids are good quality. Hope it helps a little !

Cheers Thanks for the input basmac. I have another building which
I keep bikes in and I will look at the site in detail tomorrow
Thanks much appreciated
Cheers
JG

bmw1200

i am a contractor,i only spray cloed cell insulation,i went on a biking trip to france and spain last year and on the way organised to meet spray foam contractors,and discovered that closed cell insulation is the only answer ,i have been spraying paint for the past 20 years and with the down turn decided to look into something new,so i made a big financial step and invested into this business,i have advertised in donedeal.ie and the the response was great but as i explained to people that they should wait until the steel is a bit warmer and dry before applying this product,as it will not stick to wet surfaces,my email is cpsfoamcoatings@gmail.com
if i can be of any help dont hesitate to conact me

quattro777

Does that material stick to any surface?
How much does it cost?

carchaeologist

That stuff goes on like a spray from a spraygun,and expands like expanding foam?
Iv seen this being done in a house as insulation before,seems to be a good job.

yam1300

bmw1200 wrote: »

i am a contractor,i only spray cloed cell insulation,i went on a biking trip to france and spain last year and on the way organised to meet spray foam contractors,and discovered that closed cell insulation is the only answer ,i have been spraying paint for the past 20 years and with the down turn decided to look into something new,so i made a big financial step and invested into this business,i have advertised in donedeal.ie and the the response was great but as i explained to people that they should wait until the steel is a bit warmer and dry before applying this product,as it will not stick to wet surfaces,my email is cpsfoamcoatings@gmail.com
if i can be of any help dont hesitate to conact me

Hi BeeM,just read your post,would you believe I took delivery of
Xtratherm and ply on Thursday morning and have been installing it
when I get time since then.Sorry to have missed your post as I would
like to have followed up on it.Just as a matter of interest here are some
cost's: Xtratherm Thin R 25mm x 19 sheets €18.73 each = €355.87
(normally underfloor but recommended by a Rep from Xtratherm)

13 sheets of 6mm Ply at €9.55 each= €124.26
2 Rolls Aluthermo Foil Tape at €16.94 each = €33.88
Delivery €20
Total €534 see the following:
The shed I have is 5mx2m and in order to mimic what your
product does i.e fill the complete space/panel I cut strips
and inserted them into what would have been an air space
and overlaid with an other sheet of insulation and then taped
over the joints.I'll also be doing the roof.
I had got a quote for a preinsulated panels/shed and this was
€3000+, I paid €2080 uninsulated.I saw a sample of a preinsulated
panel and it would look similar to your product with an additional
metal panel enclosing the insulation.Looks very impressive.
There were other items such as "self cuting screws" and
a membrane but I was able to blag those for free.
You might let me know as to costs/quotes as I have a
brother-in-law getting a metal shed but much bigger than
mine-enough to house 3+ cars, oh almost forgot that will
be in the Cork-13k from City.I can get the exact size.

By the way are you touring this year ?? In the process of doing
a rough plan myself.
Cheers for now
JG

bmw1200

i tried to send a mail last night but i don't know if it went,anyway for 25mm of closed cell spray foam it costs around 15 euro per m2, 40mm to 50 mm is 18 to20 euro per M2,the material is pretty expensive,but what a job ,when temp. starts to rise a bit i will be doing my own shed 60x25,roof and walls and will be making a video presentation,if you want to wait i will try and post it on youtube.com and donedeal.ie when i advertise i only have a few photos.cheers

cnocbui

If you don't want condensation problems and want to let light in, double or more walled Polycarbonate sheeting is an idea.

For flooring, I came across this product that looks interesting:

http://Dynotile.co.uk/

An epoxy self levelling compound would be worth looking at. A google images search shows some nice results:

http://tinyurl.com/yzq57ok

yam1300

Wow great ideas for flooring-the tiling
looks really impressive
Cheers for the post
JG

yam1300

bmw1200 wrote: »

i tried to send a mail last night but i don't know if it went,anyway for 25mm of closed cell spray foam it costs around 15 euro per m2, 40mm to 50 mm is 18 to20 euro per M2,

Cheers for that just for now the approximate size is
(feet) 40Lx25Wx9H, 12ft to peak of roof. I'm not
sure how many door's it's going to have but I'll
check. I presume doors are sprayed as well ??
Just a question -how do you control the dept
of the spray/foam ??
Cheers Thanks for the info
JG

Lauder

If anyone knows any good pavers in the Dublin area I would appreciate it. Need to get the area outside the garage tarmaced now.

Garage progress going well, finished ceiling today (insulated) and put in stage3 office lighting. Looking well.

Cheers,
Colm

DohertyGDS

Make sure your door is insulated to the same level as the rest of the garage.

galwaytt

cnocbui wrote: »

If you don't want condensation problems and want to let light in, double or more walled Polycarbonate sheeting is an idea.

For flooring, I came across this product that looks interesting:

http://Dynotile.co.uk/

An epoxy self levelling compound would be worth looking at. A google images search shows some nice results:

http://tinyurl.com/yzq57ok

yam1300 wrote: »

Wow great ideas for flooring-the tiling
looks really impressive
Cheers for the post
JG

I floored my parking garage with porcelain tiles, and it cost me €300 (5m x 5m approx). Hard as hell, you can use a trolley jack on them with no issues, and they never need painting etc.