The Privilege of Islam.

Turtwig

I recently saw a set of stories and videos on the web about Google's view on Islam. (See video Below.) Google themselves say it is merely a bug and it is not giving Islam a privileged position. They expect to have it fixed shortly. If so, fair play to them, but I often get the feeling from some people and from articles that I read that Islam is given more respect than the other religions. Why on earth is this the case?

P.s I think you guys should try typing in "Atheism is..." too.:)

Now this brings me to the excellent video that we all saw lately about...ah well I'll just post a mirror.

Naturally it was regarded as offensive toward Islam. Eitherway it's sparked a quite humourous trend of investigations into the sincerity of the poor chap who believe that dead people were hit with hammers. Enter Ozmoroid:

The point of this thread is that many people seem to give me the impression that Islam is given a higher level of respect than Christianity or any other religion. Or else they give me the opposite impression that Islam is some sort of extreme-I-don't-know-what that needs to be gotten rid of. I'd like to understand why I only seem to come across these polar opposites. Every muslim (two of which are close friends) I've had a decent conversation with don't really seem to care about jokes made about Islam.

In fact, one of my friends in a sort of weird way, encourages the satire or mockery because too often he is met with faces that, he feels, either associated him with extremist nonsense, or else people just appear too kind and respectful to him (and he doesn't like that either.) possibly out of fear of saying something offensive. For this reason many of the conversations he has feel awkward and artificial.
Are we fearful of Islam, or is it something else?

evercloserunion

Well I think if Islam appears to be given a "privileged" position by people who usually oppose or are indifferent to religion, it is as a response to a tendency to demonise Islam as being the worst of the religions in order to serve certain agendas. Many people are very vocal in their opposition to Islam, but often for the wrong reasons; to justify wars and other atrocities, to boost support for a political party/agenda, to stir racism, to sell papers etc. etc. Many people, particularly those on the left, do not want to see such tactics succeed and in opposing these tactics they may come across as being pro-Islam.

Islamic extremism, like any extremism, is a bad thing and is not something we want more of in society. But as you say yourself most Muslims are moderate, reasonable people who are unfairly tarred with the same brush as a nutjob minority. Can you imagine the world viewed us all as gun-wielding IRA thugs?

People don't seem to understand that good, honest Muslims really do face a much greater threat to their religious freedom in the developed world than any other religion. You can oppose religious fundamentalism but still support the right on individuals to practice the religion of their choice. And if you do support that right I think you will find that the treatment of Muslims by both the governments and many citizens in the developed world is a more serious concern than the treatment of other religions.

Galvasean

I don't think it's a case where people respect Islam more than say Christianity. I think it's more a case of them being more fearful of having an axe wielding maniac come after them.

Genghiz Cohen

Galvasean wrote: »

I don't think it's a case where people respect Islam more than say Christianity. I think it's more a case of them being more fearful of having an axe wielding maniac come after them.

Read this then look at his sig, it's.... perfect!

Quint

Type in muslim is and you'll get the expected results

Xluna

The reason Islam gets more..."respect" is due to the fact that if you offend it you risking being murdered,plain and simple. Let's put it like this,if there was a clinically insane sociopath with a gun on the street would criticise him? Power grows from the barrell of a gun.

PDN

Safer to stick to the soft targets. There's a reason why anti-semitism has proved so popular over the centuries.

evercloserunion

Xluna wrote: »

The reason Islam gets more..."respect" is due to the fact that if you offend it you risking being murdered,plain and simple. Let's put it like this,if there was a clinically insane sociopath with a gun on the street would criticise him? Power grows from the barrell of a gun.

Can you please quantify the risk you describe? That is, what do you think is the probability of being murdered if you offend Islam? You have just called Muslims murderers. Surely that's offensive? You can expect to be murdered now no?

mcmoustache

evercloserunion wrote: »

Can you please quantify the risk you describe? That is, what do you think is the probability of being murdered if you offend Islam? You have just called Muslims murderers. Surely that's offensive? You can expect to be murdered now no?

He didn't call muslims murderers. What he was getting at, presumably, was that there is a perception out there, real or imagined, that if you insult muslim sensitivities, then some will want to kill you. This perception didn't come from xenophobia either. Remember Theo Van Gogh, the reaction to the Danish Cartoons, Salman Rushdie?

evercloserunion

mcmoustache wrote: »

He didn't call muslims murderers. What he was getting at, presumably, was that there is a perception out there, real or imagined, that if you insult muslim sensitivities, then some will want to kill you. This perception didn't come from xenophobia either. Remember Theo Van Gogh, the reaction to the Danish Cartoons, Salman Rushdie?

You have named one person who has been murdered for offending Islam, out of the thousands who have criticized it. Seriously, you are talking about a risk of being murdered; how would you quantify that risk? If you insult Islam, is there even a slightly reasonably probability that you will be murdered for it?

People are not too afraid to cross the road for fear that they will be hit by a car, yet I imagine it would be much more likely than being murdered by a maniac for insulting Islam. This perception is a result of a successful smear campaign against Muslims.

evercloserunion

PDN wrote: »

Safer to stick to the soft targets. There's a reason why anti-semitism has proved so popular over the centuries.

You are right I think. Muslims are much softer targets than other religions because their skin tends to be a different colour, many of them are first or second generation immigrants, many of them are poor, etc. etc. That's probably why they get such a hard time.

5uspect

meh

5uspect

evercloserunion wrote: »

You have named one person who has been murdered for offending Islam, out of the thousands who have criticized it. Seriously, you are talking about a risk of being murdered; how would you quantify that risk? If you insult Islam, is there even a slightly reasonably probability that you will be murdered for it?

People are not too afraid to cross the road for fear that they will be hit by a car, yet I imagine it would be much more likely than being murdered by a maniac for insulting Islam. This perception is a result of a successful smear campaign against Muslims.

Like the one being carried out in Saudi?

evercloserunion

5uspect wrote: »

Like the one being carried out in Saudi?

What's being carried out in Saudi? A murder or a smear campaign? Either way, we don't live there so I hardly think it would (or should) influence how people think over here?

fitz0

evercloserunion wrote: »

What's being carried out in Saudi? A murder or a smear campaign? Either way, we don't live there so I hardly think it would (or should) influence how people think over here?

If the Saudis fund Islamic schools over here then it will most certainly affect how people think.

Islam is not a soft target. It aggressively defends itself from every form of threat, real or perceived, and is not shy of using violence to do so. It demands respect from everyone without doing anything to deserve it. So yes Islam does have a privilege, one borne of fear and intimidation

Galvasean

evercloserunion wrote: »

This perception is a result of a successful smear campaign against Muslims.

No, it's a result of a very large group of Muslims setting fire to embasseys and trying to murder people over a few silly cartoons. Or, if you don't believe that, it's 'THE MAN's fault.

Dades

evercloserunion wrote: »

You are right I think. Muslims are much softer targets than other religions because their skin tends to be a different colour, many of them are first or second generation immigrants, many of them are poor, etc. etc. That's probably why they get such a hard time.

That's complete rubbish.

Muslims don't get a hard time any more than they give one. Many of their religious laws are perceived as backwards at least, and in contravention of human rights at most.

People don't see a religion of "peace" - they see the entire Middle East dancing in the streets and firing AK-47s when the twin towers collapsed.

Islam either doesn't care or needs a new PR guy.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Well, Muslims have been centre-stage and in the spotlight now for the past 10 years, right at the brunt of popular prejudice, so I don't see how anyone is giving them an easier time...

And I don't know why the majority (or all) are being judged by the actions of a tiny minority. Doesn't seem fair.

MrPudding

evercloserunion wrote: »

Can you please quantify the risk you describe? That is, what do you think is the probability of being murdered if you offend Islam? You have just called Muslims murderers. Surely that's offensive? You can expect to be murdered now no?

That is a bit of a silly argument isn't it? There is a very big difference between criticising islam for what it is on a relatively anonymous website and publishing something in a newspaper or saying something on TV as part of your job.

I have no fear, apart from Dades & robinch, is saying I think that islam is a vile religion that has no place in civilised society. Would I say that on TV if I was known? Possibly not. I don't need some religious fcuk nut arriving round my house with an axe because I think he is an idiot for belive the utter rubbish he does.

Remember when the carton came out and islam was slated for being violent? How did they react...?

Much easier to offend christians, unless of course you are a doctor that carries out abortions.



MrP

MrPudding

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Well, Muslims have been centre-stage and in the spotlight now for the past 10 years, right at the brunt of popular prejudice, so I don't see how anyone is giving them an easier time...

And I don't know why the majority (or all) are being judged by the actions of a tiny minority. Doesn't seem fair.

You should read "End of Faith."

MrP

hinault

PDN wrote: »

Safer to stick to the soft targets. There's a reason why anti-semitism has proved so popular over the centuries.

what the hell is that meant to mean?

OK-Cancel-Apply

MrPudding wrote: »

You should read "End of Faith."

MrP

I'll pass, thanks.

Galvasean

hinault wrote: »

what the hell is that meant to mean?

I think he means it's a lot safer to ridicule Judaism than it is to ridicule Islam.

Zillah

5uspect wrote: »

meh

44 million results for "Is Islam a country?"

Oh world.

Petrovia

...so far as expected.





:eek: :eek: :eek: Is Google afraid of the Pope?!!111111

pts

Petrovia wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: Is Google afraid of the Pope?!!111111

And rightly so!!

MrPudding

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

I'll pass, thanks.

meh, your loss.

MrP

Xluna

evercloserunion wrote: »

You have just called Muslims murderers. Surely that's offensive? You can expect to be murdered now no?

Nope, I did'nt call Muslims murders,which implies most/all Muslims are murderers. I said if you insult Islam you run the risked of being murdered. And as we've seen with Benedicts Islamic gaff last year, many would support you being murdered.

Xluna

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Well, Muslims have been centre-stage and in the spotlight now for the past 10 years, right at the brunt of popular prejudice, so I don't see how anyone is giving them an easier time...

And I don't know why the majority (or all) are being judged by the actions of a tiny minority. Doesn't seem fair.

I don't hate Muslims but I do hate alot of what the Koran teaches. The Koran makes me appreciate the relative tolerance of Christianity.

Angry Troll

that google thing is really pathetic and shameful...brin&page should be ashamed...to surrender to some hate-preaching mullahs just like that…proactively even for all we know…really doesn’t get much lower than that…also shows how ****ed-up the western world is nowadays...

PoleStar

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Well, Muslims have been centre-stage and in the spotlight now for the past 10 years, right at the brunt of popular prejudice, so I don't see how anyone is giving them an easier time...

And I don't know why the majority (or all) are being judged by the actions of a tiny minority. Doesn't seem fair.

Thing is, its actually NOT a minority.

Do you not remember the Muslim "peace" response to the suggestion that Islam was a violent religion? All that was on the news was footage of mob riots around the world (and no they werent throwing cotton buds or writing poetry).

What about Saudi, thats a pretty big country aint it? A lot of people there seem ok with the laws there.


Im not personally against Islam (as an atheist I would prefer if the world was rid of ALL religions, not just Islam), but you have to say that we dont hear a whole lot about other religions in the news as much do we?

robindch

Xluna wrote: »

The Koran makes me appreciate the relative tolerance of Christianity.

I'd have thought that in a civilized society, not having to worry about nutters running around with axes trying to kill people with whom they have ideological differences should be an expectation, not something that one should be thankful for.

Galvasean

Xluna wrote: »

I don't hate Muslims but I do hate alot of what the Koran teaches. The Koran makes me appreciate the relative tolerance of Christianity.

Bit like saying, "I have ants in my pants. Ah well, could be worse. At least they arent hungry fire ants!" :eek:

Angry Troll

Xluna wrote: »

I don't hate Muslims but I do hate alot of what the Koran teaches. The Koran makes me appreciate the relative tolerance of Christianity.

same here...

OK-Cancel-Apply

Xluna wrote: »

I don't hate Muslims but I do hate alot of what the Koran teaches. The Koran makes me appreciate the relative tolerance of Christianity.

Can you give me an example of something the Koran teaches that does not have a comparable passage in the Bible, or exceeds it in intolerance?

Thinkingaboutit

5uspect wrote: »

meh

Not for me. I get no suggestions after 'Islam is,' and plenty for other religions. I think the Mormons need to get with the head chopping to get some respect.:pac:

GLaDOS

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Not for me. I get no suggestions after 'Islam is,' and plenty for other religions. I think the Mormons need to get with the head chopping to get some respect.:pac:

He typed "Is Islam" not "Islam is"

Angry Troll

weird **** anyway...i don’t get anything for “islam is” on google…and if it really is google censorship, which surely would not be beyond them, it is a bad case of caving in to perceived or real threats by bearded old men…i just hope it is a bug but i do find it a bit suspicious…

Dades

Angry Troll wrote: »

weird **** anyway...i don’t get anything for “islam is” on google…

Read the post above yours.

robindch

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I think the Mormons need to get with the head chopping to get some respect

Have a read of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven

In their time, the mormons did not shirk from the chopping of heads and other bits.

They've just employed a lot of first-rate PR men since then, so people have generally forgotten the distinctly sticky goings-on that took place during the religion's birth-pangs.

Nodin

Petrovia wrote: »

...so far as expected.

:eek: :eek: :eek: Is Google afraid of the Pope?!!111111

No, Dutch google is having problems with an english question, by the looks of it.....

Petrovia

Nodin wrote: »

No, Dutch google is having problems with an english question, by the looks of it.....

Nope. 'christianity is' works when I translate it into Dutch, but then neither does 'islam is' or 'catholicism is'.

Funnily enough, the catholicism one doesn't show any results for me when I use google.co.uk or google.ie either, though it does when I use google.com...

Turtwig

"Islam is" has now been "fixed" by google.:)

5uspect

Malty_T wrote: »

"Islam is" has now been "fixed" by google.:)

And it ain't pretty.

GLaDOS

Haha, one of the results is "Islam is google", explains everything!